Would a trade for Duane Brown actually make us better?

[Coug_Hawk08]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

Entirely correct is a huge over statement. The tone in this post is very condescending, maybe try and make it a discussion rather than just using your opinion as fact.

I don’t really agree, either.

Compensation aside (because it’s pure speculation), moving from a 30 to a 50 rating (and 50 might be a bit low for brown) would be absolutely massive. Cutting pressures/knockbacks from the highest in the league to average would do wonders for execution of the entire offense. To many busted plays from Odi. The QB/RBs needs to trust his LT or silly stuff is going to happen.

The in house alternatives listed are odd to me. As if we wouldn’t have tried these things before to ‘make up the gap’. Tobin and play calling won’t save us.

 

[hawkfan68]

Of course he would make us better. We currently have the worst Oline in the league. How could he not be an improvement?

He's not a fit per the Seahawk checklist. He's not a scrub, he's not a former DL or TE. So there's no chance for him to be a conversion project for Cable. Thus he's not a fit. Just as Albert wasn't a fit. Just as Evans wasn't a fit. See the pattern...

Brown is a pro-bowler so that counts him out of the Seahawks criteria for potential fits on the OL. Albert and Evans were former pro-bowlers. Seahawks like to spend money on players like Webb, Sowell, Joeckel, Tobin, etc instead. That's their preference of upgrading their OL.

How does this post further conversation?

The intent was to state an opinion. Whether it furthers conversation is subject to each individual's (who reads it) interpretation.

 

[Hawkfish]

Trade for Brown = Super Bowl appearance, IMO.

 

[SchadenfreudeHawk]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

Entirely correct is a huge over statement. The tone in this post is very condescending, maybe try and make it a discussion rather than just using your opinion as fact.

Montana is one of the really high caliber posters who actually still post on this board (we lost folks like Kearly due to people flipping them crap). I don't agree with every opinion he offers but I appreciate his posts. Let' be respectful to the folks who spend time writing thoughtful posts. One can disagree will still being agreeable, ya know.

 

[scutterhawk]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

hmm, So, Piss poor O-Line play, no help in the Run Game + shitty Pass Protection doesn't have an affect on Wilson's play??, Ya, Okay.
Rees Odhiambo is not on the same level as Duane Brown, not even close.
Calling a different play doesn't always translate to successful results.
Experience, & instincts go a long ways to bettering overall play, AND, a BETTER & more experienced LT would also be a boon to the LG......Pro-Bowl level experience does matter, ESPECIALLY to the Quarterback.
Having confidence with protection for Wilson, would also open up another page in the playbook.

 

[scutterhawk]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

Entirely correct is a huge over statement. The tone in this post is very condescending, maybe try and make it a discussion rather than just using your opinion as fact.

Montana is one of the really high caliber posters who actually still post on this board (we lost folks like Kearly due to people flipping them crap). I don't agree with every opinion he offers but I appreciate his posts. Let' be respectful to the folks who spend time writing thoughtful posts. One can disagree will still being agreeable, ya know.

I would "agreeable" that Montana is a high caliber poster, but, he does err every now and then, everyone does.

 

[chris98251]

I would "agreeable" that Montana is a high caliber poster, but, he does err every now and then, everyone does.

I don't error, it just takes time for the Seahawks to prove I am right.

 

[IrishNW]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

Entirely correct is a huge over statement. The tone in this post is very condescending, maybe try and make it a discussion rather than just using your opinion as fact.

I have aspd, thats why their is a condescending tone to my posts, Its not intended. However my opinion is unchanged. There is way to many holes in this boat that a LT just cant fix.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Wilson has been " Bailing" on those "Clean Pockets" because they inconsistent, and have been evaporating all too fast.

He's really not. IrishNW is entirely correct in his assessment of Wilson's play. He's doing all these things.

We should avoid trying to place all the blame on one place (the offensive line). Life is rarely that black and white. Wilson is playing poorly, AND the line is playing poorly.

Those who are pointing out that sliding an offensive lineman into a new system is not a plug-and-play thing, are absolutely correct. There is a learning curve. You have to consider the team's playbook, its blocking principles (man? zone?), the team's protection philosophies and how both Britt and Wilson prefer to call them, chemistry with the left guard...there is a lot to consider. And you guys cannot prove that Brown is in top physical football shape, either. He might be, he might not be. There's a risk.

Would an in-shape Brown, on an island without any technical considerations, still prove to be an improvement over Rees in pure pass blocking? Honestly, Rees is bad enough to where the answer is probably yes. The question is whether it would be ENOUGH of an improvement pick to be worth a first-rounder, a pick which is supposed to be a franchise changer, as well as worth casting off another player. If Brown took us from Rees' PFF grade of 30 to a grade of 50, then no, the net gain wouldn't be enough. There are in-house alternatives that can make up that gap (like Matt Tobin, or calling a better playbook in the first half).

hmm, So, Piss poor O-Line play, no help in the Run Game + shitty Pass Protection doesn't have an affect on Wilson's play??, Ya, Okay.

I said both were playing poorly, dude.

Having confidence with protection for Wilson, would also open up another page in the playbook.

I absolutely agree with that. But it would also require money the Seahawks might not have and player resources they might not want to give up. It might happen. We might trade Lane or Graham. But calling different plays for Wilson is free, has a history of working, and can be done right now.

I don't know everything there is to know about football, and just because I'm a regular around here doesn't mean I'm right about everything. I do err. But I'd like to think I know at least enough to tell two different offensive approaches apart when they're deployed in different halves, and all kinds of people on this board are noticing that Wilson is overthrowing more than he used to. It doesn't make sense to blame that on the line. If Carr Syndrome was the problem, why didn't it strike in one of his previous five seasons when he was a lesser-experienced QB with bad pass protection?

The OL needs change. But when there are cheaper solutions that can be implemented right now, I prefer to clamor for those. That's all. Branden Albert looks like a modest upgrade for a modest cost, too, so I'm certainly down for that.

 

[scutterhawk]

hmm, So, Piss poor O-Line play, no help in the Run Game + shitty Pass Protection doesn't have an affect on Wilson's play??, Ya, Okay.

I said both were playing poorly, dude.

Having confidence with protection for Wilson, would also open up another page in the playbook.

I absolutely agree with that. But it would also require money the Seahawks might not have and player resources they might not want to give up. It might happen. We might trade Lane or Graham. But calling different plays for Wilson is free, has a history of working, and can be done right now.

I don't know everything there is to know about football, and just because I'm a regular around here doesn't mean I'm right about everything. I do err. But I'd like to think I know at least enough to tell two different offensive approaches apart when they're deployed in different halves, and all kinds of people on this board are noticing that Wilson is overthrowing more than he used to. It doesn't make sense to blame that on the line. If Carr Syndrome was the problem, why didn't it strike in one of his previous five seasons when he was a lesser-experienced QB with bad pass protection?

The OL needs change. But when there are cheaper solutions that can be implemented right now, I prefer to clamor for those. That's all. Branden Albert looks like a modest upgrade for a modest cost, too, so I'm certainly down for that.

I think what go's unrecognized, but is pertinent in these discussions, is that as the season wears on, Wilson's play gets better....Kind of a coincidence that about the same time that the Offensive Line cleans up a lot of their mistakes.
I'm not absolutely sure that Brown would be a perfect fit, but, with Jockel maybe not being available for awhile, Brown @ LT could very well be what the O-Line needs to take it to the next level.
His experience playing at LT answers the long overdue need on our O-Line, and it would free up & bolster the LG position in the boot.
As far as going with the "cheaper solutions" option, is why we've regressed in the last few seasons....I think the co$t of Protecting RW should a top priority.......We've gone 'On The Cheap' for too long, and t's been detrimental to Wilson's health.

 

[Seafan]

Of course it would but another question is does Brown bring more than Albert and at what cost?

 

[RCATES]

Huuuuge upgrade. Our biggest weakness by far on Offense is the LT position. We have average/serviceable lineman at both Guard positions and RT and a great Center. LT is a absolute dumpster fire.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

While I don't think Brown makes us that much better THIS year because he hasn't played in almost 10 months now.............I do think he'd be a tremendous addition for the next 2-3 years.

Which is why I've said I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade unless we can re-work his contract into a longer term extension. We need as LT for the next 3-4 years, not a band aid for this year.

 

[RCATES]

While I don't think Brown makes us that much better THIS year because he hasn't played in almost 10 months now.............I do think he'd be a tremendous addition for the next 2-3 years.

Which is why I've said I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade unless we can re-work his contract into a longer term extension. We need as LT for the next 3-4 years, not a band aid for this year.

I disagree. Our Championship window is right now with the 2nd oldest defense in the league. Rodgers going down yesterday changed everything. Add in NE looking sub-par this year. The time to win a SB is now. I'd take another SB trophy this year if it means the next 5 years of the same thing we've seen the last two years getting bounced in the 2nd round. If we don't fix the LT position that's exactly what will happen this year.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

While I don't think Brown makes us that much better THIS year because he hasn't played in almost 10 months now.............I do think he'd be a tremendous addition for the next 2-3 years.

Which is why I've said I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade unless we can re-work his contract into a longer term extension. We need as LT for the next 3-4 years, not a band aid for this year.

I disagree. Our Championship window is right now with the 2nd oldest defense in the league. Rodgers going down yesterday changed everything. Add in NE looking sub-par this year. The time to win a SB is now. I'd take another SB trophy this year if it means the next 5 years of the same thing we've seen the last two years getting bounced in the 2nd round. If we don't fix the LT position that's exactly what will happen this year.

Who are you cutting or trading to free up 10M in cap space to get Brown?

The Texans need D-line and CB's, not TE's, so don't say Jimmy. Cause they'd never trade Brown for a TE that's a UFA next year.....unless you're also trading high picks, and we already gave the Jets our 2nd.

 

[scutterhawk]

Shift or get off the clutch is all I'm saying.
EVERYONE agrees that an upgrade at Left Tackle should be a high priority, now whether it be Albert or Brown that WE can get signed, we need to get it done YESTERDAY.
As far as Duane Brown maybe not being in game shape right now, I think it's folly to believe that he would be unable to get fully up to speed by game #7, or game #8.
Money might be the only obstacle, but John Schneider can be pretty creative, we fans here on .NET?...lol, not so much.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolutely would make the team better.

 

[razor150]

Last week we came off a win against the Rams, Russ was hurried on 53% of his drop backs, and this was considered an improvement in our o-line play. Meanwhile Goff was considered to be harried by our d-line at 35%. Our team's o-line seems to exist in a realm where giving up pressure on just over half of it's snaps as an improvement that really doesn't exist anywhere else. Getting someone like Brown would at least stabilize the left side of our line, and allow us shift help to the right side for when Aboushi has to face players like Donald.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Money might be the only obstacle, but John Schneider can be pretty creative, we fans here on .NET?...lol, not so much.

He can, probably the most creative GM in the league.

But this is a tall order even for Schneider, which is probably why it hasn't happened yet.

- how to fit under the cap
- who do we trade
- who does Houston want
- how many picks do we have to trade

My guess is it'd be at least a good player AND multiple picks, probably our first rounder.........AND restructuring a current contract like Russell's to fit Brown's 10M per year under the cap.

btw, that's why he's holding out, he doesn't even think 10M is enough now. So why would he come here and play for a contract he's currently holding out on?

Idk, I'd love this to happen, but I don't give it much chance with all these moving parts.

 

[Seymour]

Money might be the only obstacle, but John Schneider can be pretty creative, we fans here on .NET?...lol, not so much.

He can, probably the most creative GM in the league.

But this is a tall order even for Schneider, which is probably why it hasn't happened yet.

- how to fit under the cap
- who do we trade
- who does Houston want
- how many picks do we have to trade

My guess is it'd be at least a good player AND multiple picks, probably our first rounder.........AND restructuring a current contract like Russell's to fit Brown's 10M per year under the cap.

btw, that's why he's holding out, he doesn't even think 10M is enough now. So why would he come here and play for a contract he's currently holding out on?

Idk, I'd love this to happen, but I don't give it much chance with all these moving parts.

That is an easy question to answer.

So he doesn't have to be punished practicing against Watt and Clowney every day of the week. :2thumbs: :179422: