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For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:38 pm
  • We should have a half-decent first round pick position. Do we use it on a good player, do we try and turn it into 18 5th round picks, or what?
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:39 pm
  • It'll depend on how the draft is playing out.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:41 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:We should have a half-decent first round pick position. Do we use it on a good player, do we try and turn it into 18 5th round picks, or what?

    Unfortunately, since there have been a trend Pete Carroll does this, I pretty much expect this to happen.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:44 pm
  • Maybe we could trade 15 of those 5th round picks for a new OC and a cracked fungo...
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:We should have a half-decent first round pick position. Do we use it on a good player, do we try and turn it into 18 5th round picks, or what?



    Might be high enough to draft a starter on the OL hopefully. Either that or maybe a WR/RB drops. I would be shocked if we draft someone on D again although maybe another CB?
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:49 pm
  • We'll use it on a head scratching "reach" that we could have gotten in the 3rd. Which will be good, because we don't have a 3rd round pick...
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:51 pm
  • I want either oline help or a big, fast #1 wr. EIther way I want a new OC
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:53 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:I want either oline help or a big, fast #1 wr. EIther way I want a new OC

    I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:54 pm
  • iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:58 pm
  • Perfect scenario is if one of RB Saquon Barkley, OG Quenton Nelson, OT Mike McGlinchey, OT Connor Williams drops to where the Hawks pick.

    But since that likely won't happen, I'm hoping for a couple trade downs into the early 2nd round getting an extra 3rd (or two 3rds) and a 4th.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:59 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:01 pm
  • We’re gonna finish 9-7. We will have one of the lowest draft picks of the non playoff teams. Not a good position to be in. Feels like the Erickson years all over again.


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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:01 pm
  • iigakusei wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:I want either oline help or a big, fast #1 wr. EIther way I want a new OC

    I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.

    How is it bigger than that? Of course there are different contributors to our downfall, but who should take the most blame?
    Is there a possibility to get a QB who is better than Russell? No, so that's out of the picture.
    Do our WRs suck? They aren't world beaters but get shit done with a solid gameplan.
    Does the Oline suck? Yes, but we seem to be unable to improve that. At least we are trying.

    The only one left is the OC and he is responsible for looking at the different parts of the offense and getting the most out of them. Do you believe he calls the best plays? If Russell has problems with the Dline consistently one might have the idea to call screens and short fast passe. Not our OC. We are trying to go deep way too often, and if it doesn't work, we just try it even more.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:01 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.


    No, it is bigger than that. The defense was getting manhandled right from the start. Nothing to do with Bevell. The special teams coverage was awful. Nothing to do with Bevell.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:03 pm
  • JimmyG wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.


    Hmm Well I cant speak for the rest of the NFL but anyone with eyes can tell the OC is a huge part of our problems
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:04 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.


    No, it is bigger than that. The defense was getting manhandled right from the start. Nothing to do with Bevell. The special teams coverage was awful. Nothing to do with Bevell.

    It's pretty much all of the above!
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:04 pm
  • The Seahawks generally trade out of the bottom of the 1st round because there aren't any 1st rd players left.

    In any given draft there are only about 15-20 1st rd graded players. So value wise it makes sense to trade down, and pick up an extra 4th. To still get a player of the same value, and get an extra pick out of it. It is a good strategy.

    The Seahawks drafted Thomas & Okung without trading down in the 1st, if the talent is there they will pick. If it isn't they will trade down.

    Its not about players at this point though. It is all about the coaching staff. Until that is fixed talking player acquisition is moot.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:05 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.


    No, it is bigger than that. The defense was getting manhandled right from the start. Nothing to do with Bevell. The special teams coverage was awful. Nothing to do with Bevell.

    All of that is true but it doesn't explain why we only scored 7 points at home in a shootout.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:07 pm
  • JimmyG wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.


    I don't know, looks like the Rams have a good one.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:07 pm
  • Great draft another carpenter or ifedi
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:32 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.


    No, it is bigger than that. The defense was getting manhandled right from the start. Nothing to do with Bevell. The special teams coverage was awful. Nothing to do with Bevell.

    Usually what happens when a top offense plays a beaten up defense....
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:33 pm
  • Doesn't really matter where we pick if we continue to draft as poorly as we have the last 5 years.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:34 pm
  • no point in drafting anything if we have dumb and dumber as co-ords
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:39 pm
  • offensive line or runningback
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:46 pm
  • Fade wrote:The Seahawks generally trade out of the bottom of the 1st round because there aren't any 1st rd players left.

    In any given draft there are only about 15-20 1st rd graded players. So value wise it makes sense to trade down, and pick up an extra 4th. To still get a player of the same value, and get an extra pick out of it. It is a good strategy.

    The Seahawks drafted Thomas & Okung without trading down in the 1st, if the talent is there they will pick. If it isn't they will trade down.

    Its not about players at this point though. It is all about the coaching staff. Until that is fixed talking player acquisition is moot.


    I agree but the fact that they’ve traded away their 2nd & 3rd round picks might make it more likely they trade back. That’s a long time to sit there and not pick.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:49 pm
  • JimmyG wrote:Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.

    Ok, defend the fact that our OC was calling long-developing routes all damn day against a D-line that smokes our O-line every time they meet.

    Use your words. We're waiting.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:52 pm
  • I've always hated the quantity over quality the Hawks so seem to covet. All this trading down spots for players like Ifedi, McDowell just doesn't seem to work. Give me a stud over a dozen turds anyday.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:54 pm
  • Saquon Barkley or Bryce Love imo
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:54 pm
  • This team is EASILY the same record as for example the Broncos, only we have a real QB who can carry us a few games. Meanwhile our coaching staff has more or less cemented the inability to adjust or advance. They’re done, and we need to rebuild the team AROUND WILSON
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:21 pm
  • Yes awesome to have a good draft position when we depleted the draft picks by trades.

    Only upside will be all the compensatory picks coming
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:35 pm
  • Let's wait and see who we don't keep. Hopefully there will be some who most people thought we'd keep. I think there will be a few surprise cuts.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:16 am
  • pugs1 wrote:
    Fade wrote:The Seahawks generally trade out of the bottom of the 1st round because there aren't any 1st rd players left.

    In any given draft there are only about 15-20 1st rd graded players. So value wise it makes sense to trade down, and pick up an extra 4th. To still get a player of the same value, and get an extra pick out of it. It is a good strategy.

    The Seahawks drafted Thomas & Okung without trading down in the 1st, if the talent is there they will pick. If it isn't they will trade down.

    Its not about players at this point though. It is all about the coaching staff. Until that is fixed talking player acquisition is moot.


    I agree but the fact that they’ve traded away their 2nd & 3rd round picks might make it more likely they trade back. That’s a long time to sit there and not pick.


    You're right. This special circumstance will make them more likely to trade back. They still won't commit to trading back fully until they know what is on the board first though.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:31 am
  • Draft a tackle to play on the right side and / or take over for Duane Brown in a couple years. No comp picks so they will need to hit on all the picks they have left and UDFA.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:03 am
  • I don't think the glaring hole position this team needs to address with the 1st pick is visible yet.

    It'll come from someone who is cut or not resigned.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:08 am
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Or it's not, but it gives you a neat and tidy scapegoat.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:30 am
  • naholmes wrote:Draft a tackle to play on the right side and / or take over for Duane Brown in a couple years. No comp picks so they will need to hit on all the picks they have left and UDFA.

    Hopefully Fant can be that. :pray:

    So much potential with Fant/Justin Senior competing at RT and Ifedi, Pocic, Roos, Odhiambo for LG/RG, but very uncertain.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:40 am
  • We are trading down like we do every year. The 1st will be traded a for 2 lower round picks. Those 2 lower round picks will be traded for 3 even lower round picks.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:46 am
  • I hope we do trade down we need to get some pics back from fro Brown and Richardson trades.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:51 am
  • As it stands, Seattle has the 18th overall pick.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:34 am
  • Give Wilson a big, fast #1 WR to throw it up to.

    Don't know who is like this in this year's draft, but we need that (not Mcevoy.)
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:38 am
  • They went for broke in 2017 and gave up picks along the way. No doubt in my mind they will trade back to recoup those assets.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:42 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.


    Yup. Every one of them calls a 50-yard play while in the endzone with a shit o-line, and sends 2 receivers to the same exact spot so the D can concentrate their defenders there. Yup, every other one does that sort of thing. :roll:
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:47 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    JimmyG wrote:Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.

    Ok, defend the fact that our OC was calling long-developing routes all damn day against a D-line that smokes our O-line every time they meet.

    Use your words. We're waiting.

    Playcalling is overrated. Execution is what matters. People call me a "Bevell apologist" but I am anything but. I almost never praise the guy. I almost never praise any coordinator for that matter. It's way too hard to judge playcalls. Without seeing the All-22, how do we know what the calls were? Even if we can see the routes, we don't know what his first/second reads were. I'm sorry, but a sweeping generalization of "he called long-developing routes all day" is just a buzzword answer that everyone is regurgitating in every other post.

    What I saw yesterday was a Russell Wilson that held to the ball too long. You don't need game film to see that. I see the same thing every week. People resort to hyperbole like "he was under pressure every play". PFF says Wilson was pressured 16 times on 42 dropbacks (38% of the time); Wilson took 7 sacks yesterday. Well, PFF says Jimmy Garoppolo over in San Francisco was pressured 18 times on 46 dropbacks (39% of the time); he took only 3 sacks. Garoppolo has an inferior supporting cast and he still put up great numbers. People are going to say, "well, it's because they have Shanahan. He's a great playcaller." Funny, because all other QBs for the Niners have been awful this year. Execution trumps playcalling.

    Wilson holding the ball too long is something I see every week. Usually, he can dance around and pull off a few miracle plays. What I saw from the Rams was not just a good pass rush, but a disciplined defense. They contained him. They did not over-pursue. This is the mistake most pass rushers, and defenses, make against him.

    Every week people complain about Bevell's playcalling and insist that Wilson bailed him out, that we moved the ball in spite of him. Well, where was Wilson yesterday? He didn't show up. They kept him in the pocket and he failed to deliver. He didn't adapt. He didn't get rid of the ball quickly. He resorted to the "start scrambling around the moment there's a hint of pressure" hero ball stuff. You rarely see Wilson climb the pocket. You rarely see him stand tall. You rarely see him get rid of the ball quickly. "Long-developing plays" are just as often the result of him dancing around.

    So, sorry, you can't praise him for "producing in spite of Bevell" when he does well and then give him a pass because "it was bad playcalling" when he does poorly.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:01 pm
  • JimmyG wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I have never been more convinced that OC is not the problem. It is bigger than that.


    It's not bigger than that. It's exactly that.

    Amazing, the OC is "exactly the problem" with every team in football. What a coincidence.

    Not teams like Minnesota. Their patchwork O line from last year and their running game was a problem. Look what they did down two qb and a top rb. Pat Shurmer has that team with 11 wins so far.
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Re: For the first time in a while...
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:45 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:Yup. Every one of them calls a 50-yard play while in the endzone with a shit o-line, and sends 2 receivers to the same exact spot so the D can concentrate their defenders there. Yup, every other one does that sort of thing. :roll:

    Without diving into a futile debate about coordinators, I did rewatch the all-22 to specifically follow PRich's play. In my opinion he was open on a number of occasions, including the one you're referring to.

    3rd and 15 from the Hawks 8 yard line. Everything short is off the table and so Troy Hill is lined up at RCB 10 yards off and plays the outside angle. Richardson starts to pass him at the 30 and that is when the ball should have come out. Instead the ball comes out a second later when Wilson feels pressure and is slightly underthrown as a result. Prich slows slightly and Troy Hill makes up ground to get in position to make the deflection 60 yards down the field.

    3rd and 15 is very difficult to convert in the NFL and there was a significant wind at the time, so it isn't really a point against Wilson other than I wish he had thrown it earlier. I don't think it says much about the play call either way, however, as nobody would be criticizing a 40 yard pass that Prich catches at midfield.
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