Northwest Seahawk
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He's definitively one of the best lineman we have . To the FO just start him at Guard or Tackle the rest of the year please.
Bailey
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Largent80
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Yeah, he had a fantastic whiff on Hardy that allowed him to intercept Russel's pass and if Russ hadn't gotten his ankles, he scores.
Northwest Seahawk
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Largent80":pyh55f5w said:
Wasn't Bailey playing Left tackle and wasn't the int on the right side, regardless I'll take Bailey over Britt period Britt wiffs 50 percent the time Bailey about ten percent of the plays so to me it's not close. Bailey played better than Okung does most games as well . We fundamentally disagree here .
Northwest Seahawk":2q0e8x4r said:
Umm yea. That INT was left side, all on Bailey.
Regardless, Bailey is a fringe NFL talent. Which game was it where Gilliam got hurt, and Bailey came in and got beat like a rented mule ? You want to watch some textbook whiffs, watch that game. Bailey is terrible.
j hawk
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The team was making a good effort to get the pass plays out of Wilsons hands quickly. If this was our regular game Wilson would have been killed. Bailey was abused repeatedly in pass pro but did ok in run blocking IMHO.
hawknation2015
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Bailey's best position is as a BACKUP LT. It is clearly where he feels the most comfortable. There were some whiffs and some pathetic attempts at run blocking, but at the same time, he clearly surpassed every expectation. That is due, in part, to the fact that expectations of him were so low.
Britt, Nowak, and Sweezy all played their best games of the season. Gilliam was serviceable . . . and Bailey did not totally screw up.
Britt, Nowak, and Sweezy all played their best games of the season. Gilliam was serviceable . . . and Bailey did not totally screw up.
HawkerD
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Northwest Seahawk":2y85i23f said:
You're not fundamentally only disagreeing with those on this thread, your are disagreeing with the professional coaching staff of the Seahawks. Yes you have an "opinion" but beware, "opinions" can be wrong. Why in the world would they be starting the current 5 if Bailey is better? They made changes when they thought things weren't necessarily working so they are not afraid to of change. Unless you honestly believe you are a better judge of talent than the staff or you think that the staff is sabotaging the team, your "opinion" doesn't make any sense.
Northwest Seahawk
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The offensive line play got better at the exact same time they started playing Bailey and it's not a coincidence. Bailey IS a better option than Britt but it would not be the first time a FO decided to start a player that's playing at a lower level than there backup now would it . Wyman after the game said Bailey played great at the toughest position to play offensive line left tackle and zero sacks so there is evidence to back up my position and Bailey is outplaying Britt. What they have said is over time Britt will be the better option down the road but that simply hasn't happened and were at the halfway point so . I'm not saying they can't win with Britt starting but Bailey is the better option.
hawknation2015
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Northwest Seahawk":20n4qw0w said:
Although Bailey is typically better in pass pro than he is as a run blocker, he still has his occasional spotty play in pass pro due to his lack of physicality, weak punch, etc.
Here were the back-to-back plays that ended the drive in question:
Here was another similar play where Bailey demonstrates a weak punch and ultimately loses leverage, leading to a QB hit:
But again, his biggest weakness is his lack of physicality at the point of attack in the run game:
As a unit, they need to improve their cut blocking (Sweezy also whiffs here).
In the 2nd half, the offense was forced to adjust to Bailey's inability to physically matchup with Hardy. For most of the 2nd half, it appeared that Bailey was not even blocking the DE:
kidhawk
Well-known member
HawkerD":34jzxgqg said:
You're question of why they would start others if Bailey is better has many possible answers. The first to come to mind is potential. Simply put, the front office sees more potential in the guys they have put out there. Bailey can easily be better now, but not have as much room for improvement. The quickest way to improve an offensive lineman is with experience.
Other possible explanations could include things like future plans (ie they don't plan on having Bailey beyond this year so why not get their guys more time together now), the possibility exists that he has had some issues in following team rules or has had a poor work ethic in practices.
In other words there are plenty of very plausible explanations why Bailey could be better than some guys playing and still not starting.
hawknation2015
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kidhawk":18r1os2b said:
Bailey is no way better than Okung, Britt, Nowak, Sweezy, or Gilliam right now. He is way behind those starters.
I think he's also way behind Glowinksi as a run blocker, but is probably superior in pass pro (at least at LT).
Bigbadhawk
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Britt has had back to back good games. I wouldn't want to see Bailey at LG with the strides Britt has made.
Tech Worlds
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HawkerD":2n3k3crh said:
this is flawed logic.
There are instances where a depth player gets a chance to play and once given that chance to play demonstrates is the better player and deserves the playing time.
Richard Sherman is a perfect example.
kidhawk
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hawknation2015":l7z63urw said:
Gilliam had zero business even being on the offensive line to start this season. Bailey was FAR better than Gilliam was then. Gilliam has improved, and is getting better by the week, something I don't believe Bailey would bring to the table, but he wasn't as good as Bailey when he started this season.
hawknation2015
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kidhawk":1uwvj7uj said:
Sorry, but that is laughable. Gilliam beat out Bailey as the 5th starter in the preseason with superior athleticism and physicality. If Bailey has been in any way adequate, then he would be starting right now. They had to totally re-arrange the offensive line at the 11th hour because Bailey was not showing improvement or living up to expectations.
kidhawk
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hawknation2015":n3i5ld9a said:
Sorry, but that is laughable. Gilliam beat out Bailey as the 5th starter in the preseason with superior athleticism and physicality. If Bailey has been in any way adequate, then he would be starting right now. They had to totally re-arrange the offensive line at the 11th hour because Bailey was not showing improvement or living up to expectations.[/quote
You didn't read what I wrote or maybe you just see what you want, I'm not sure, but you certainly aren't even close to right about what I said here.
Prior to game 1 of the season, Bailey was the better game day offensive lineman between himself and gilliam. Of that there is no question. Did Gilliam out work him in practice? There is a very high probability of that, which is why I noted that it could have something to do with his work ethic combined with overall potential.
What I do know is what I've seen of Bailey on the field during games in the past and even the present, and what I've seen in games of Gilliam, and Bailey was the more polished of the two at the position at the time. You are free to believe as you wish, but if you believe Gilliam was an improvement in skill level on the offensive line than the only person you are fooling here is yourself.
IBleedBlueAndGreen
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Northwest Seahawk":1k8yy3bh said:
Go back and watch the game again. Yes, they had zero sacks. However Bailey had his lunch handed to him a bunch of times. The interception was all on him, and honestly it was completely pathetic. The ball was snapped and he dove and Hardy's ankles, hardly touching him. It was like watching somebody jump over a six inch hurdle. Russell make the tackle and then on replay gave Alvin a look that basically said "WTF was that??!?!"
hawknation2015
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kidhawk":2qetmws0 said:
If Gilliam were the weaker player at the start of the season, then Bailey would have started. Period.
Bailey had the starting experience, and he was the incumbent, who was given the first crack at the starting job in the first two preseason games. And he was TERRIBLE in those games. Gilliam looked much more polished, and the starting line was immediately improved with the less physical player removed from the lineup.
kidhawk":2qetmws0 said:
kidhawk":2qetmws0 said:
Yeah, me and Pete Carroll, who chose to start Gilliam and benched a feeble, underperforming Bailey.
kidhawk
Well-known member
hawknation2015":1gern2et said:
This sentence right here is why there is just no discussing this with you. Football experts will tell you that there are plenty of reasons that a slightly better player may not start over another player, but until you can believe in that possibility, trying to discuss the possibility is going to be fruitless
hawknation2015
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kidhawk":2yao6qra said:
I'm not talking about other players . . . I am talking specifically about Bailey and Gilliam's performance in the preseason, and why the decision was made to get our five best starters on the field -- Bailey was clearly not one of those five players.
