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Russell Wilson "should have won MVP," says Anthony Barr

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  • His ability to extend plays and he never has help, and he's always able to somehow ... He should have won MVP, I think, this past year. No offensive line, no running game, can't name three receivers on his team and he just makes plays.

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  • The fact the 2017 team won 9 games and was really close to winning 11 should go down in NFL history as an amazing accomplishment.
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  • I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


    (This post isn't aimed at you btw, just general)...

    I agree he fizzled at the end but come on man. NO player in the NFL was MORE VALUABLE to their team then Russell Damn Straight Wilson. Think of the term. Most Valuable Player. To me, it's not about popular vote. It's not even about stats. It's, straight up...What player is most valuable to the success of their team?

    In 2017? Despite the drop off? It's Russell Wilson and it's not even close.

    Pardon me, but...

    (mic drop)
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  • Aros wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


    I agree he fizzled at the end but come on man. NO player in the NFL was MORE VALUABLE to their team then Russell Damn Straight Wilson. Think of the term. Most Valuable Player. To me, it's not about popular vote. It's not even about stats. It's, straight up...What player is most valuable to the success of their team?

    In 2017? Despite the drop off? It's Russell Wilson and it's not even close.

    Pardon me, but...

    (mic drop)

    Please. Russell Wilson faltered when it mattered most to the Seahawks. The Seahawks could have grabbed a wildcard spot, but he threw up some of the biggest stinkers of the season in the last few weeks of play with the playoffs on the line. One of the prerequisites to getting the reward is at least making the playoffs. If Wilson would have been able to do that he would have gotten the reward. He had the chance, and he blew it. If Russell Wilson was not on the team we'd still be in the same position: watching the playoffs from our couch.

    I do not think that you can give it to a guy who didn't even make the post season. Russ had his chance to win the reward but he blew it.
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  • It’s happened twice.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:Please. Russell Wilson faltered when it mattered most to the Seahawks. The Seahawks could have grabbed a wildcard spot, but he threw up some of the biggest stinkers of the season in the last few weeks of play with the playoffs on the line....


    None of his faltering off had anything to do with carrying the entire team for over two weeks of football. Got it.
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  • Aros wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


    (This post isn't aimed at you btw, just general)...

    I agree he fizzled at the end but come on man. NO player in the NFL was MORE VALUABLE to their team then Russell Damn Straight Wilson. Think of the term. Most Valuable Player. To me, it's not about popular vote. It's not even about stats. It's, straight up...What player is most valuable to the success of their team?

    In 2017? Despite the drop off? It's Russell Wilson and it's not even close.

    Pardon me, but...

    (mic drop)



    You are correct, unfortunately, in my time observing this board, there are a few that will never give him what he deserves. It is unfortunate, pathetic but true. The excuse is he fizzled down the stretch. so lets look at fizzle using qb rating as our measure since it accounts for all aspects of being a QB. HIs last 5 games were 108.6, 107.8, 71.8, 76.9. 118.6. So 2 "fizzle games". Okay, maybe lets compare to Bradys last 5. 82, 106.8, 87.6, 59.5, 82.4. Hmm ahh yeah if Wilson fizzled so did Brady the difference is his team won. Now, why well for one they had a run game, they had 16 rushing tds with Brady having none of them. We had 4 rushing tds and Wilson had 3 of them. That is the difference. Brady had help Wilson had none.

    Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get.

    Now as to Wr, ahh Grham is not a Wr he is a TE, Doug is known and the person said name 3. Richardson is not that well known outside of our fans. Some have no clue who he is. So the reality is most people cant name 3 WR on our team last year.
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  • Woah woah using QB rating and not mentioning he threw for 93 yards and around 60 net yards in the cowboys game does not present the whole picture. He did not play at an MVP level in any of those four games. Not saying its entirely his fault, the situation was pretty bad around him. Think about it, if you aren't getting help from the running game, you better be throwing for close to 300 yards a game to sustain the offense. He only got there against the Jags in that last stretch.

    If we're ignoring Graham as a receiver we can ignore Gronk as a receiver? Cooks is Baldwin's equal at best. Otherwise our receivers were better last year than Brady's given Edelman's injury. That's not a very useful debate anyway.

    Brady consistently played better than Wilson so he deserved MVP. Also their defense was garbage this year so while Wilson was getting no running game or OL help, Brady wasn't getting any favors from his defense.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Woah woah using QB rating and not mentioning he threw for 93 yards and around 60 net yards in the cowboys game does not present the whole picture. He did not play at an MVP level in any of those four games. Not saying its entirely his fault, the situation was pretty bad around him. Think about it, if you aren't getting help from the running game, you better be throwing for close to 300 yards a game to sustain the offense. He only got there against the Jags in that last stretch.

    If we're ignoring Graham as a receiver we can ignore Gronk as a receiver? Cooks is Baldwin's equal at best. Otherwise our receivers were better last year than Brady's given Edelman's injury. That's not a very useful debate anyway.

    Brady consistently played better than Wilson so he deserved MVP. Also their defense was garbage this year so while Wilson was getting no running game or OL help, Brady wasn't getting any favors from his defense.



    woah woah mentioning he only had 93 yards without mentioning he only got to throw the ball 21 times is also not presenting the whole picture. Also, we won that game LOL. As for Brady VS Wilson, I beg to differ on him playing better. As I showed Brady had a lot of bad game as well, including the worst game either of them had with a 59 qb rating. As to the Defense, NE was ranked 5th in scoring, we were ranked 13th so yeah he had a better defense too. So we are saying Crook is Baldwins equal, HMM okay ahh who do we have that is Amendola's equal? So let's say they are equal for the sake of argument.

    So lets put this to bed

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    Hmm Brady had more help.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Woah woah using QB rating and not mentioning he threw for 93 yards and around 60 net yards in the cowboys game does not present the whole picture. He did not play at an MVP level in any of those four games. Not saying its entirely his fault, the situation was pretty bad around him. Think about it, if you aren't getting help from the running game, you better be throwing for close to 300 yards a game to sustain the offense. He only got there against the Jags in that last stretch.

    If we're ignoring Graham as a receiver we can ignore Gronk as a receiver? Cooks is Baldwin's equal at best. Otherwise our receivers were better last year than Brady's given Edelman's injury. That's not a very useful debate anyway.

    Brady consistently played better than Wilson so he deserved MVP. Also their defense was garbage this year so while Wilson was getting no running game or OL help, Brady wasn't getting any favors from his defense.

    Well hell, there ya go, Wilson should have had someone on Defense to run the ball for him....Another William "The Refrigerator" Perry type behemoth.
    Hell, maybe should have sent Wilson in to Kick field goals too, he sure as hell couldn't have done much worse than Shank master Walsh did.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:You are correct, unfortunately, in my time observing this board, there are a few that will never give him what he deserves. It is unfortunate, pathetic but true. The excuse is he fizzled down the stretch. so lets look at fizzle using qb rating as our measure since it accounts for all aspects of being a QB. HIs last 5 games were 108.6, 107.8, 71.8, 76.9. 118.6. So 2 "fizzle games". Okay, maybe lets compare to Bradys last 5. 82, 106.8, 87.6, 59.5, 82.4. Hmm ahh yeah if Wilson fizzled so did Brady the difference is his team won. Now, why well for one they had a run game, they had 16 rushing tds with Brady having none of them. We had 4 rushing tds and Wilson had 3 of them. That is the difference. Brady had help Wilson had none.

    Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get.

    Now as to Wr, ahh Grham is not a Wr he is a TE, Doug is known and the person said name 3. Richardson is not that well known outside of our fans. Some have no clue who he is. So the reality is most people cant name 3 WR on our team last year.


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  • Amendola is not a great receiver dude. He has been clutch in the playoffs but Richardson is a better receiver. Also throwing the ball 21 times for 93 yards is awful. That's less than 5 yards per attempt and furthers my point.

    As for the defense, we were 13th in DVOA and NE was 31st. Looking at yards, NE was 29th and we were 11th. They were also dead last in giving up yards per drive, BUT they were 1st in average starting field position. Their defense faced offenses who had to travel the most distance to get into scoring range due to their O and ST being really good. They were also #2 in redzone defense. Thus, their scoring defense rank is high, but looking more closely at the numbers shows that they were not better than our defense. One stat does not an accurate comparison make.

    Brady has better offensive weapons and he played better within the confines of his system than Wilson did within his, even given how unfair Wilson's confines were. Brady had a better passer rating, total QBR, adjusted net yards per attempt, completion percentage, sack percentage, etc. than Wilson. Wilson had waaay beat in rushing yards, but Brady threw for more yards than Wilson gained overall. It's not a knock on Wilson, I've defended the guy to death here, I'm not a hater. Brady just played better this year, it's no shame to be second in the MVP race to one of the greatest ever. Honestly, I think he had a better MVP candidacy in 2015, it just happened to be a stronger year then with Carson and Cam having fantastic seasons.
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  • Much easier to play better when you don't have flesh eating zombies chasing you every play and your fresh out of bullets to defend yourself.
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  • adeltaY wrote:Amendola is not a great receiver dude. He has been clutch in the playoffs but Richardson is a better receiver. Also throwing the ball 21 times for 93 yards is awful. That's less than 5 yards per attempt and furthers my point.

    As for the defense, we were 13th in DVOA and NE was 31st. Looking at yards, NE was 29th and we were 11th. They were also dead last in giving up yards per drive, BUT they were 1st in average starting field position. Their defense faced offenses who had to travel the most distance to get into scoring range due to their O and ST being really good. They were also #2 in redzone defense. Thus, their scoring defense rank is high, but looking more closely at the numbers shows that they were not better than our defense. One stat does not an accurate comparison make.

    Brady has better offensive weapons and he played better within the confines of his system than Wilson did within his, even given how unfair Wilson's confines were. Brady had a better passer rating, total QBR, adjusted net yards per attempt, completion percentage, sack percentage, etc. than Wilson. Wilson had waaay beat in rushing yards, but Brady threw for more yards than Wilson gained overall. It's not a knock on Wilson, I've defended the guy to death here, I'm not a hater. Brady just played better this year, it's no shame to be second in the MVP race to one of the greatest ever. Honestly, I think he had a better MVP candidacy in 2015, it just happened to be a stronger year then with Carson and Cam having fantastic seasons.


    Hmm so let me get this right, the idea is to outscore the other team, but you expect me to say the Hawks defense who gave up more points was better than the Pats who gave up less. Hmm yeah no.

    Once again the problem with the 93 yards being bad is once again you ignore the fact that Brady had by far the worse game by either QB down the stretch and yet won the MVP. In fact, he had several bad games down the stretch, So that excuse is incorrect.

    Now saying Richardson is better than Amendola. LOL If you say so, Let me see Richard 1 year with more than 1 td, Amendola 6. In fact Comparing their first 4 years, Amendola 1726 yards, 7 tds. Richardson 1302 yards, 8 tds and Richardson played 5 more games so sorry, this shows Amendola is better.

    Thanks for admitting Brady has better weapons on offense and making my point though.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Much easier to play better when you don't have flesh eating zombies chasing you every play and your fresh out of bullets to defend yourself.



    LOL true, so true.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Aros wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


    I agree he fizzled at the end but come on man. NO player in the NFL was MORE VALUABLE to their team then Russell Damn Straight Wilson. Think of the term. Most Valuable Player. To me, it's not about popular vote. It's not even about stats. It's, straight up...What player is most valuable to the success of their team?

    In 2017? Despite the drop off? It's Russell Wilson and it's not even close.

    Pardon me, but...

    (mic drop)

    Please. Russell Wilson faltered when it mattered most to the Seahawks. The Seahawks could have grabbed a wildcard spot, but he threw up some of the biggest stinkers of the season in the last few weeks of play with the playoffs on the line. One of the prerequisites to getting the reward is at least making the playoffs. If Wilson would have been able to do that he would have gotten the reward. He had the chance, and he blew it. If Russell Wilson was not on the team we'd still be in the same position: watching the playoffs from our couch.

    I do not think that you can give it to a guy who didn't even make the post season. Russ had his chance to win the reward but he blew it.

    That’s correct, they’d have been sitting on their couches. The difference is, they’d very likely be doing so with a losing record—quite possibly a very bad losing record.
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  • Aros wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:Please. Russell Wilson faltered when it mattered most to the Seahawks. The Seahawks could have grabbed a wildcard spot, but he threw up some of the biggest stinkers of the season in the last few weeks of play with the playoffs on the line....


    None of his faltering off had anything to do with carrying the entire team for over two weeks of football. Got it.

    The fact remains, he faltered when we needed him most. With or without Wilson this year the results were the same, no playoffs. He had a few horrible games when we needed him to be his normal self. Call it what you will, but that will take you out of contention for MVP 9 times out of 10, especially when the other guy had a similar season statistically, and made the post season.

    Russell Wilson did not get the MVP, deal with it. He had a fantastic season, but with or without him the results are exactly the same, no post season.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get.


    Again, it depends on how one defines MVP, Anthony!, er, I mean Hawk1217.

    Russ didn't do enough to help his team win when it counted, at the end of the season. Perhaps that mattered to enough voters, even if his QB rating was higher than Brady's.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get.


    Again, it depends on how one defines MVP, Anthony!, er, I mean Hawk1217.

    Russ didn't do enough to help his team win when it counted, at the end of the season. Perhaps that mattered to enough voters, even if his QB rating was higher than Brady's.


    :escape: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :2thumbs:

    BTW I'm a big Russ fan and NO he was not MVP IMO.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


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    Are all better than the Seahawks WR corps last year. So at best, his WR threat was below league average last year. Paul Richardson is a league average WR, a good #3 option, poor #2.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get.


    Again, it depends on how one defines MVP, Anthony!, er, I mean Hawk1217.

    Russ didn't do enough to help his team win when it counted, at the end of the season. Perhaps that mattered to enough voters, even if his QB rating was higher than Brady's.


    lol well, that took all of one week. As I watched this forum I saw this tactic, call someone, by a name of someone not well liked or who has a strong opposing opinion in an attempt to alienate them, and hope it catches on. So nothing new there. Its one of the reasons this site does not get a lot of new posters.

    Now you could be right perhaps to some he did not do enough to win. although being the only player in NFL history to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDs seems like he had to do too much.

    If you had read all my posts, which you obviously did not, I said "Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get." Notice the part where I say you must also win.
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  • I vote for RW to be MVP of the Super Bowl.

    These awards are silly pleasures of fans. I want to see the team win some playoff games.

    There is no doubt that a big part of the Hawk offense last year was improvisation by RW but no one should belittle the contributions by Richardson, Graham and Baldwin to those crazy big plays.

    I'm just glad Pete woke up and realized you can't depend on heroic crazy plays as your offense and the team needed to get some real talent at OC. I'm not saying Schott is awesome or anything but if Pete had not made changes this team was headed for 5-11 really fast.
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  • Seafan wrote:I vote for RW to be MVP of the Super Bowl.

    These awards are silly pleasures of fans. I want to see the team win some playoff games.

    There is no doubt that a big part of the Hawk offense last year was improvisation by RW but no one should belittle the contributions by Richardson, Graham and Baldwin to those crazy big plays.

    I'm just glad Pete woke up and realized you can't depend on heroic crazy plays as your offense and the team needed to get some real talent at OC. I'm not saying Schott is awesome or anything but if Pete had not made changes this team was headed for 5-11 really fast.


    This is the truth. We might have a chance with a top tier QB, but the rest of the team still has to be good. Rodgers and Brees are good examples of QBs playing really well but not having much to show for it since 2011. You can throw Ben in there too. IMO it's still better to have the elite QB and pay whatever you need for him than to gamble on a rookie and load up on D - it worked for us once but I doubt it will again if we jettison RW.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:lol well, that took all of one week. As I watched this forum I saw this tactic, call someone, by a name of someone not well liked or who has a strong opposing opinion in an attempt to alienate them, and hope it catches on. So nothing new there. Its one of the reasons this site does not get a lot of new posters.

    And here I thought it was the persistent, unmoderated logical fallacies and rampant negativism.

    Hawk1217 wrote:Now you could be right perhaps to some he did not do enough to win. although being the only player in NFL history to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDs seems like he had to do too much.

    If you had read all my posts, which you obviously did not, I said "Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get." Notice the part where I say you must also win.

    Didn't do enough to win / couldn't do enough to win - splitting hairs there a bit, but the takeaway from it is you do have to win.

    I thought Russ had a good year overall, but he did have some bad games, and imagine what his numbers would have been like if he started playing in the first half instead of waiting until the gatorage and oranges.

    Still, he did the best he could given the shortcomings of the team around him, and it was probably more than any other QB did. Unfortunately, MVP is not about that - otherwise who would possibly challenge Wagner at defensive MVP? Whether or not it was humanly possible for Wilson to do wnough for the hawks to win, the unwritten rule says you have to be a winner to be MVP. No playoffs, no MVP.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:lol well, that took all of one week. As I watched this forum I saw this tactic, call someone, by a name of someone not well liked or who has a strong opposing opinion in an attempt to alienate them, and hope it catches on. So nothing new there. Its one of the reasons this site does not get a lot of new posters.

    And here I thought it was the persistent, unmoderated logical fallacies and rampant negativism.

    Hawk1217 wrote:Now you could be right perhaps to some he did not do enough to win. although being the only player in NFL history to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDs seems like he had to do too much.

    If you had read all my posts, which you obviously did not, I said "Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get." Notice the part where I say you must also win.

    Didn't do enough to win / couldn't do enough to win - splitting hairs there a bit, but the takeaway from it is you do have to win.

    I thought Russ had a good year overall, but he did have some bad games, and imagine what his numbers would have been like if he started playing in the first half instead of waiting until the gatorage and oranges.

    Still, he did the best he could given the shortcomings of the team around him, and it was probably more than any other QB did. Unfortunately, MVP is not about that - otherwise who would possibly challenge Wagner at defensive MVP? Whether or not it was humanly possible for Wilson to do wnough for the hawks to win, the unwritten rule says you have to be a winner to be MVP. No playoffs, no MVP.


    Nicely written, I agree.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:lol well, that took all of one week. As I watched this forum I saw this tactic, call someone, by a name of someone not well liked or who has a strong opposing opinion in an attempt to alienate them, and hope it catches on. So nothing new there. Its one of the reasons this site does not get a lot of new posters.

    And here I thought it was the persistent, unmoderated logical fallacies and rampant negativism.

    Hawk1217 wrote:Now you could be right perhaps to some he did not do enough to win. although being the only player in NFL history to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDs seems like he had to do too much.

    If you had read all my posts, which you obviously did not, I said "Wilson by definition of MVP should have won it. However the true definition of MVP is not what they look at, you must also win, which means you need help, help Wilson did not get." Notice the part where I say you must also win.

    Didn't do enough to win / couldn't do enough to win - splitting hairs there a bit, but the takeaway from it is you do have to win.

    I thought Russ had a good year overall, but he did have some bad games, and imagine what his numbers would have been like if he started playing in the first half instead of waiting until the gatorage and oranges.

    Still, he did the best he could given the shortcomings of the team around him, and it was probably more than any other QB did. Unfortunately, MVP is not about that - otherwise who would possibly challenge Wagner at defensive MVP? Whether or not it was humanly possible for Wilson to do wnough for the hawks to win, the unwritten rule says you have to be a winner to be MVP. No playoffs, no MVP.

    Exactly what I was trying to say, only you did so more eloquently.
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  • MVP? Probably not. But if Wide Right Walsh doesn't blow 2 games, he lead the team to 11 wins behind a historically bad O Line. He's not the best player in the league, but you could argue he's the most valuable to HIS TEAM.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:MVP? Probably not. But if Wide Right Walsh doesn't blow 2 games, he lead the team to 11 wins behind a historically bad O Line. He's not the best player in the league, but you could argue he's the most valuable to HIS TEAM.


    Nah hes the best player in the league. Unless you want to admit Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Wentz would have put up the same or better numbers with his supporting cast last year, to include brain dead Bevell and Cable.
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  • Other than Rodgers, I doubt any other QB would have the success that Wilson has had in this offense.
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  • With a clutch kicker I’m sure we would be singing a different tune about this past season. Then again, we wouldn’t have gotten the changes we needed on the coaching staff, so in the long run that could pay off.

    RW had an amazing year and I’m excited to see what he can do next year with a revamped offense.
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Re: Russell Wilson
Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:15 am
  • Decimation wrote:With a clutch kicker I’m sure we would be singing a different tune about this past season. Then again, we wouldn’t have gotten the changes we needed on the coaching staff, so in the long run that could pay off.

    RW had an amazing year and I’m excited to see what he can do next year with a revamped offense.


    Exactly! Blair Walsh saved our franchise from further misery of under performance. He also didn't give up 42 points to the Rams at home.
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Re: Russell Wilson
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:13 pm
  • Decimation wrote:With a clutch kicker I’m sure we would be singing a different tune about this past season. Then again, we wouldn’t have gotten the changes we needed on the coaching staff, so in the long run that could pay off.

    RW had an amazing year and I’m excited to see what he can do next year with a revamped offense.



    And with a better play we would have 2 Super Bowl wins and furthermore if Jerome Bettis wasn't retiring and had the Refs making sympathy calls for the Steelers we may have had three.
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  • Aros wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think the right guy got it. Russell Wilson really struggled at the end of the year, and his team didn't even make the playoffs as a result. If a football team doesn't even make the playoffs an MVP is an automatic no go in the eyes of the media. It is also mentioning that there is some major hyperbole about our receivers. We had Graham, Baldwin, and Richardson, that is not a bad receiving core by any stretch of the imagination.


    (This post isn't aimed at you btw, just general)...

    I agree he fizzled at the end but come on man. NO player in the NFL was MORE VALUABLE to their team then Russell Damn Straight Wilson. Think of the term. Most Valuable Player. To me, it's not about popular vote. It's not even about stats. It's, straight up...What player is most valuable to the success of their team?

    In 2017? Despite the drop off? It's Russell Wilson and it's not even close.

    Pardon me, but...

    (mic drop)


    Wilson is a vital part of this teams success, but lots of guys fit this description. The Packers showed what they are without Aaron Rodgers too. If you think the Patriots sniff a near repeat or even a playoff berth with Brian Hoyer under center, I don't know what to tell you.

    MVP's get their teams to the playoffs, Russell Wilson (no pun intended) fell short.
    ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.
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Re: Russell Wilson
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:06 pm
  • Decimation wrote:With a clutch kicker I’m sure we would be singing a different tune about this past season. Then again, we wouldn’t have gotten the changes we needed on the coaching staff, so in the long run that could pay off.

    RW had an amazing year and I’m excited to see what he can do next year with a revamped offense.


    Would we really though? What honestly changes? We make the playoffs, maybe win a max of one game and then do the usual road division playoff game farewell?

    This team was not a reliable kicker away from a Super Bowl. They had very serious issues on both sides of the ball. Wilson, while he played great in stretches, was part of the reason the wheels came off at the end too.
    ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Other than Rodgers, I doubt any other QB would have the success that Wilson has had in this offense.


    Rodgers would have gotten hurt behind this OL. He is not as durable as Wilson.
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  • Put Brady behind our offensive line, and he would have been on IR before the 1st quarter of the season was over. And this team would have been 2-14.

    And there's only one defensive stat that matters in the NFL, scoring defense. You can use all the acronyms and formulas you want, but the #1 defense in the NFL isn't the one that has pretty numbers, or the one that allows the fewest yards, it's the one that allows the fewest points.

    Russell can only do so much, the rest of the team failed him. He didn't have time to launch deep throws, and it's a wonder he played as well as he did at the end of the season after spending 12 weeks getting hammered, and running for his life. NO QB in the NFL could have done as well as Russell Wilson did last year on a horrid team.

    Yet he never complained. I guarantee you Aaron Rodgers or Kaepernick would have been whining by week 5.
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  • Just want to say one thing about Wilson, and you guys know I love him as out QB and love his uncouth play style so don't think I am just dumping on him.

    Wilson can be a coach-killer.

    Someone like Bill Walsh would script a number of plays, some of which were designed to do nothing more than to show a look they would later go back to with a different play called. Basically they would create "tells" for the defense to pick up on, and then exploit the defense later by giving a "tell" and doing something different.

    Wilson tries to make every play work, and will go off-script early and often. It almost doesn't matter what looks we show, because any look results in Benny-Hill scrambling and an improbable pass down the field. The OC can't set things up for later, or really even get much information from plays that are designed to see certain reactions.

    Part of Wilson's maturity will come from simply running the play by the book when he needs to, so that the OC can actually do his job.

    That factor alone may reduce his MVP status for some people, and I can completely understand that. Improvisation is great, but in a chess match played by masters, you kind of have to follow where they tell you to go because every feint has meaning.

    To be fair we haven't exactly had masters calling the shots, and at times I wanted to see what the offense would look like if we left the play calling to Wilson from the outset instead of calling some fail pass play from the sideline that will only work if we queue up the kazoos.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:Just want to say one thing about Wilson, and you guys know I love him as out QB and love his uncouth play style so don't think I am just dumping on him.

    Wilson can be a coach-killer.

    Someone like Bill Walsh would script a number of plays, some of which were designed to do nothing more than to show a look they would later go back to with a different play called. Basically they would create "tells" for the defense to pick up on, and then exploit the defense later by giving a "tell" and doing something different.

    Wilson tries to make every play work, and will go off-script early and often. It almost doesn't matter what looks we show, because any look results in Benny-Hill scrambling and an improbable pass down the field. The OC can't set things up for later, or really even get much information from plays that are designed to see certain reactions.

    Part of Wilson's maturity will come from simply running the play by the book when he needs to, so that the OC can actually do his job.

    That factor alone may reduce his MVP status for some people, and I can completely understand that. Improvisation is great, but in a chess match played by masters, you kind of have to follow where they tell you to go because every feint has meaning.

    To be fair we haven't exactly had masters calling the shots, and at times I wanted to see what the offense would look like if we left the play calling to Wilson from the outset instead of calling some fail pass play from the sideline that will only work if we queue up the kazoos.



    So while I get what you are saying, I don't agree at all. not much else can be said given there was no link or anything to support the thought. Also the Idea he can be a coach killer is absurd. I could easily argue if he needs to improvise so much the coach should be fired.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:Just want to say one thing about Wilson, and you guys know I love him as out QB and love his uncouth play style so don't think I am just dumping on him.

    Wilson can be a coach-killer.

    Someone like Bill Walsh would script a number of plays, some of which were designed to do nothing more than to show a look they would later go back to with a different play called. Basically they would create "tells" for the defense to pick up on, and then exploit the defense later by giving a "tell" and doing something different.

    Wilson tries to make every play work, and will go off-script early and often. It almost doesn't matter what looks we show, because any look results in Benny-Hill scrambling and an improbable pass down the field. The OC can't set things up for later, or really even get much information from plays that are designed to see certain reactions.

    Part of Wilson's maturity will come from simply running the play by the book when he needs to, so that the OC can actually do his job.

    That factor alone may reduce his MVP status for some people, and I can completely understand that. Improvisation is great, but in a chess match played by masters, you kind of have to follow where they tell you to go because every feint has meaning.

    To be fair we haven't exactly had masters calling the shots, and at times I wanted to see what the offense would look like if we left the play calling to Wilson from the outset instead of calling some fail pass play from the sideline that will only work if we queue up the kazoos.



    So while I get what you are saying, I don't agree at all. not much else can be said given there was no link or anything to support the thought. Also the Idea he can be a coach killer is absurd. I could easily argue if he needs to improvise so much the coach should be fired.

    I think Kiwi has good points(s)
    There isn't going to be links to support what he saying but if you really understand the game
    it is much more than you see on tv right?
    There is also the fact I will add that due to RW height there are plays that cannot be ran that
    other QB's can do all the time such as quick slants..Passes right up the gut- the kind of stuff
    that Brady and AR can do in a hairs time to wipe out blitzes..
    Do I need links to support this?No because it is clear as day when you watch the Hawks enough
    to know that our QB has weakness just like any other QB and sure he has strengths as well
    so don't take me wrong ..I just think some refuse to see reality some times when it comes to
    RW..
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:Just want to say one thing about Wilson, and you guys know I love him as out QB and love his uncouth play style so don't think I am just dumping on him.

    Wilson can be a coach-killer.

    Someone like Bill Walsh would script a number of plays, some of which were designed to do nothing more than to show a look they would later go back to with a different play called. Basically they would create "tells" for the defense to pick up on, and then exploit the defense later by giving a "tell" and doing something different.

    Wilson tries to make every play work, and will go off-script early and often. It almost doesn't matter what looks we show, because any look results in Benny-Hill scrambling and an improbable pass down the field. The OC can't set things up for later, or really even get much information from plays that are designed to see certain reactions.

    Part of Wilson's maturity will come from simply running the play by the book when he needs to, so that the OC can actually do his job.

    That factor alone may reduce his MVP status for some people, and I can completely understand that. Improvisation is great, but in a chess match played by masters, you kind of have to follow where they tell you to go because every feint has meaning.

    To be fair we haven't exactly had masters calling the shots, and at times I wanted to see what the offense would look like if we left the play calling to Wilson from the outset instead of calling some fail pass play from the sideline that will only work if we queue up the kazoos.



    So while I get what you are saying, I don't agree at all. not much else can be said given there was no link or anything to support the thought. Also the Idea he can be a coach killer is absurd. I could easily argue if he needs to improvise so much the coach should be fired.

    I think Kiwi has good points(s)
    There isn't going to be links to support what he saying but if you really understand the game
    it is much more than you see on tv right?
    There is also the fact I will add that due to RW height there are plays that cannot be ran that
    other QB's can do all the time such as quick slants..Passes right up the gut- the kind of stuff
    that Brady and AR can do in a hairs time to wipe out blitzes..
    Do I need links to support this?No because it is clear as day when you watch the Hawks enough
    to know that our QB has weakness just like any other QB and sure he has strengths as well
    so don't take me wrong ..I just think some refuse to see reality some times when it comes to
    RW..


    I agree all QBs have strengths and weaknesses to include Brady. I am not sure I agree with some of what you say, as I have seen him through quick slants many times. To me one of his weaknesses is sometimes he falls in love with the long ball too much, just as sometimes Brady falls in love with the short ball too much. My request for links was his comment about what Bill Walsh did. There has to be a link or something saying he did this, otherwise no one can say for sure he did. Pete has said and there are links I have seen here you cant win in the 1st or the 2nd or the third, so we know that is true. He has said he likes to play it conservative in the first half, so we know that is true. We do not know if Bill Walsh did what was said since there is no supporting evidence. Oh and FYI I have either played, coached or refereed football for over 40 years, so I do understand the game very well. I think some here like to harp a lot or only on his weaknesses making them out to be far bigger than they are, while downplaying his strengths.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:I agree all QBs have strengths and weaknesses to include Brady. I am not sure I agree with some of what you say, as I have seen him through quick slants many times. To me one of his weaknesses is sometimes he falls in love with the long ball too much, just as sometimes Brady falls in love with the short ball too much. My request for links was his comment about what Bill Walsh did. There has to be a link or something saying he did this, otherwise no one can say for sure he did. Pete has said and there are links I have seen here you cant win in the 1st or the 2nd or the third, so we know that is true. He has said he likes to play it conservative in the first half, so we know that is true. We do not know if Bill Walsh did what was said since there is no supporting evidence. Oh and FYI I have either played, coached or refereed football for over 40 years, so I do understand the game very well. I think some here like to harp a lot or only on his weaknesses making them out to be far bigger than they are, while downplaying his strengths.

    I'm not sure how you haven't heard of Bill Walsh scripting the first 20 plays, to be honest. I've only played a bit in middle school, but have followed the NFL for 40 years and I guess being in or near the Bay Area for a lot of that I had more exposure to Walsh and his coaching philosophy, but I always thought it was common knowledge that testing the defense was one of the underlying principles of the West Coast offense. most coaches who run the system script plays deliberately to gauge the defensive response to certain looks and shifts. I guess you don't actually have to play the game to be a student of it.

    And to be clear, when I speak of coach-killer it's because when Wilson goes off-script, the success is credited to him and the failure is credited to him having to go off-script (e.g. the coach). He's a no-win situation from a coaching perspective, so I hope we rein that in just a little while still allowing the creative genius side to flourish. And for the record his coach did get fired.

    Because when Wilson has an off-day, he can be really, really bad. He needs a game plan, at least to fall back on.
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  • ivotuk wrote:Put Brady behind our offensive line, and he would have been on IR before the 1st quarter of the season was over. And this team would have been 2-14.

    And there's only one defensive stat that matters in the NFL, scoring defense. You can use all the acronyms and formulas you want, but the #1 defense in the NFL isn't the one that has pretty numbers, or the one that allows the fewest yards, it's the one that allows the fewest points.

    Russell can only do so much, the rest of the team failed him. He didn't have time to launch deep throws, and it's a wonder he played as well as he did at the end of the season after spending 12 weeks getting hammered, and running for his life. NO QB in the NFL could have done as well as Russell Wilson did last year on a horrid team.

    Yet he never complained. I guarantee you Aaron Rodgers or Kaepernick would have been whining by week 5.


    I get what you're saying from a philosophical perspective, but one number does not capture how good a defense is/was. You can have a very good scoring defense because of favorable field position, your offense holding onto the ball, your offense getting out to big leads and forcing opposing offenses into unfavorable situations, etc. That does not mean you have a great defense. Efficiency and drive stats absolutely matter. The Seahawks defense at its peak in 2013 and 2014 was #1 in scoring, #1 in yards, and #1 in DVOA as well as top-tier in drive stats. That's what made them unquestionably the best defense of those years and historically great.

    The Seahawks were also #1 in scoring defense in 2015. Do you really think they were better than the 2015 Broncos defense?

    To Kiwi's point, I don't quite get it. If you're an OC looking for "tells" from the defense you should be able to see them before RW scrambles on most plays. He usually doesn't scramble instantaneously after receiving the snap, so unless the play is very long-developing, you can see how the defense reacts within the first 2-3 seconds before the play breaks down and Wilson takes off.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:I agree all QBs have strengths and weaknesses to include Brady. I am not sure I agree with some of what you say, as I have seen him through quick slants many times. To me one of his weaknesses is sometimes he falls in love with the long ball too much, just as sometimes Brady falls in love with the short ball too much. My request for links was his comment about what Bill Walsh did. There has to be a link or something saying he did this, otherwise no one can say for sure he did. Pete has said and there are links I have seen here you cant win in the 1st or the 2nd or the third, so we know that is true. He has said he likes to play it conservative in the first half, so we know that is true. We do not know if Bill Walsh did what was said since there is no supporting evidence. Oh and FYI I have either played, coached or refereed football for over 40 years, so I do understand the game very well. I think some here like to harp a lot or only on his weaknesses making them out to be far bigger than they are, while downplaying his strengths.

    I'm not sure how you haven't heard of Bill Walsh scripting the first 20 plays, to be honest. I've only played a bit in middle school, but have followed the NFL for 40 years and I guess being in or near the Bay Area for a lot of that I had more exposure to Walsh and his coaching philosophy, but I always thought it was common knowledge that testing the defense was one of the underlying principles of the West Coast offense. most coaches who run the system script plays deliberately to gauge the defensive response to certain looks and shifts. I guess you don't actually have to play the game to be a student of it.

    And to be clear, when I speak of coach-killer it's because when Wilson goes off-script, the success is credited to him and the failure is credited to him having to go off-script (e.g. the coach). He's a no-win situation from a coaching perspective, so I hope we rein that in just a little while still allowing the creative genius side to flourish. And for the record his coach did get fired.

    Because when Wilson has an off-day, he can be really, really bad. He needs a game plan, at least to fall back on.


    Scripting the first whatever plays is one thing, but purposely wasting a play to set something up later I have never heard of. To do that you would first have to find a play where you think you see a weakness, and then try it several more times to ensure it really is a weakness and further set them up. I have never heard of a coach wasting 3-4 plays calling a play they know will not work.

    Thanks for the clarification on the "coach killer" comment makes more sense. I agree a good game plan would be nice, maybe this year we will get one. However also keep in mind as Pete and Bevel have said they count on those off script plays every game, so it is their own fault. Create a real game plan without counting on the off-script plays.
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  • adeltaY wrote:
    ivotuk wrote:Put Brady behind our offensive line, and he would have been on IR before the 1st quarter of the season was over. And this team would have been 2-14.

    And there's only one defensive stat that matters in the NFL, scoring defense. You can use all the acronyms and formulas you want, but the #1 defense in the NFL isn't the one that has pretty numbers, or the one that allows the fewest yards, it's the one that allows the fewest points.

    Russell can only do so much, the rest of the team failed him. He didn't have time to launch deep throws, and it's a wonder he played as well as he did at the end of the season after spending 12 weeks getting hammered, and running for his life. NO QB in the NFL could have done as well as Russell Wilson did last year on a horrid team.

    Yet he never complained. I guarantee you Aaron Rodgers or Kaepernick would have been whining by week 5.


    I get what you're saying from a philosophical perspective, but one number does not capture how good a defense is/was. You can have a very good scoring defense because of favorable field position, your offense holding onto the ball, your offense getting out to big leads and forcing opposing offenses into unfavorable situations, etc. That does not mean you have a great defense. Efficiency and drive stats absolutely matter. The Seahawks defense at its peak in 2013 and 2014 was #1 in scoring, #1 in yards, and #1 in DVOA as well as top-tier in drive stats. That's what made them unquestionably the best defense of those years and historically great.

    The Seahawks were also #1 in scoring defense in 2015. Do you really think they were better than the 2015 Broncos defense?

    To Kiwi's point, I don't quite get it. If you're an OC looking for "tells" from the defense you should be able to see them before RW scrambles on most plays. He usually doesn't scramble instantaneously after receiving the snap, so unless the play is very long-developing, you can see how the defense reacts within the first 2-3 seconds before the play breaks down and Wilson takes off.


    agreed not to mention that is what the film room is for. Other teams rum similar plays and you can see how they react form that. Then run it once and if they react the same way, you got them, not keep running them over and over again.
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  • Hawk1217 wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:Just want to say one thing about Wilson, and you guys know I love him as out QB and love his uncouth play style so don't think I am just dumping on him.

    Wilson can be a coach-killer.

    Someone like Bill Walsh would script a number of plays, some of which were designed to do nothing more than to show a look they would later go back to with a different play called. Basically they would create "tells" for the defense to pick up on, and then exploit the defense later by giving a "tell" and doing something different.

    Wilson tries to make every play work, and will go off-script early and often. It almost doesn't matter what looks we show, because any look results in Benny-Hill scrambling and an improbable pass down the field. The OC can't set things up for later, or really even get much information from plays that are designed to see certain reactions.

    Part of Wilson's maturity will come from simply running the play by the book when he needs to, so that the OC can actually do his job.

    That factor alone may reduce his MVP status for some people, and I can completely understand that. Improvisation is great, but in a chess match played by masters, you kind of have to follow where they tell you to go because every feint has meaning.

    To be fair we haven't exactly had masters calling the shots, and at times I wanted to see what the offense would look like if we left the play calling to Wilson from the outset instead of calling some fail pass play from the sideline that will only work if we queue up the kazoos.



    So while I get what you are saying, I don't agree at all. not much else can be said given there was no link or anything to support the thought. Also the Idea he can be a coach killer is absurd. I could easily argue if he needs to improvise so much the coach should be fired.

    I think Kiwi has good points(s)
    There isn't going to be links to support what he saying but if you really understand the game
    it is much more than you see on tv right?
    There is also the fact I will add that due to RW height there are plays that cannot be ran that
    other QB's can do all the time such as quick slants..Passes right up the gut- the kind of stuff
    that Brady and AR can do in a hairs time to wipe out blitzes..
    Do I need links to support this?No because it is clear as day when you watch the Hawks enough
    to know that our QB has weakness just like any other QB and sure he has strengths as well
    so don't take me wrong ..I just think some refuse to see reality some times when it comes to
    RW..


    I agree all QBs have strengths and weaknesses to include Brady. I am not sure I agree with some of what you say, as I have seen him through quick slants many times. To me one of his weaknesses is sometimes he falls in love with the long ball too much, just as sometimes Brady falls in love with the short ball too much. My request for links was his comment about what Bill Walsh did. There has to be a link or something saying he did this, otherwise no one can say for sure he did. Pete has said and there are links I have seen here you cant win in the 1st or the 2nd or the third, so we know that is true. He has said he likes to play it conservative in the first half, so we know that is true. We do not know if Bill Walsh did what was said since there is no supporting evidence. Oh and FYI I have either played, coached or refereed football for over 40 years, so I do understand the game very well. I think some here like to harp a lot or only on his weaknesses making them out to be far bigger than they are, while downplaying his strengths.

    Never meant to say you didn't understand football but it may have come across that way.
    As for the slants he may have done some but all I have seen is a underhand pass to the middle.
    The passes up the middle I have seen are when in shotgun and those are 15-20 yards away or
    more.The slant I think of is what Brady does.
    As for the Walsh scripting 29 plays,that is what most west coast offenses do or did and Walsh
    started it all.You can see it on an episode of NFL films or even You Tube which is probaly easier
    to find on there.
    Will Dissly
    2018 Adopt a rookie
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    IndyHawk
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    Hawk1217 wrote:

    So while I get what you are saying, I don't agree at all. not much else can be said given there was no link or anything to support the thought. Also the Idea he can be a coach killer is absurd. I could easily argue if he needs to improvise so much the coach should be fired.

    I think Kiwi has good points(s)
    There isn't going to be links to support what he saying but if you really understand the game
    it is much more than you see on tv right?
    There is also the fact I will add that due to RW height there are plays that cannot be ran that
    other QB's can do all the time such as quick slants..Passes right up the gut- the kind of stuff
    that Brady and AR can do in a hairs time to wipe out blitzes..
    Do I need links to support this?No because it is clear as day when you watch the Hawks enough
    to know that our QB has weakness just like any other QB and sure he has strengths as well
    so don't take me wrong ..I just think some refuse to see reality some times when it comes to
    RW..


    I agree all QBs have strengths and weaknesses to include Brady. I am not sure I agree with some of what you say, as I have seen him through quick slants many times. To me one of his weaknesses is sometimes he falls in love with the long ball too much, just as sometimes Brady falls in love with the short ball too much. My request for links was his comment about what Bill Walsh did. There has to be a link or something saying he did this, otherwise no one can say for sure he did. Pete has said and there are links I have seen here you cant win in the 1st or the 2nd or the third, so we know that is true. He has said he likes to play it conservative in the first half, so we know that is true. We do not know if Bill Walsh did what was said since there is no supporting evidence. Oh and FYI I have either played, coached or refereed football for over 40 years, so I do understand the game very well. I think some here like to harp a lot or only on his weaknesses making them out to be far bigger than they are, while downplaying his strengths.

    Never meant to say you didn't understand football but it may have come across that way.
    As for the slants he may have done some but all I have seen is a underhand pass to the middle.
    The passes up the middle I have seen are when in shotgun and those are 15-20 yards away or
    more.The slant I think of is what Brady does.
    As for the Walsh scripting 29 plays,that is what most west coast offenses do or did and Walsh
    started it all.You can see it on an episode of NFL films or even You Tube which is probaly easier
    to find on there.


    It was not the scripting of plays Walsh did. I know he did that, but he did not stick with plays 3+ times when they did not work. Even if they were part of his script. He would make adjustments in game. I have seen plenty of games where he coached and I agree he did script some like all WCO. However they did not keep running plays that did not work, they adjusted, they ran a play to see if the weakness they saw in the film was still there. They did not just keep running it. As to slants yeah he has thrown them, but as Pete has said time and time again throwing to the middle is risky. All that aside let's say you are right and he has never, that does not mean he can't. That is one of the things I had noticed on this board. A lot of he does not or does not a lot so he can't, and not just about Wilson. Like I said I have seen him throw them, just because it does not happen a lot does not mean he cant. Just means they don't call it a lot and as I said Pete doe snto like throwing over the middle, he has said that.
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    Hawk1217
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  • One thing that's good about Schotty is he uses RB screens. The couple times Bev actually called them last year they worked, idk why we didn't more often. Didn't seem like Russ had a glaring fault in executing the throw.
    adeltaY
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    Posts: 2230
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    Location: Portland, OR


  • adeltaY wrote:One thing that's good about Schotty is he uses RB screens. The couple times Bev actually called them last year they worked, idk why we didn't more often. Didn't seem like Russ had a glaring fault in executing the throw.


    That is a great question, I too noticed they worked well.
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    Hawk1217
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