Tony Stewart hits and kills another driver

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
  • bigtrain21 wrote:
    huskylawyer wrote:
    These are all fair and good arguments.

    The only thing that bothers me with this thread is people calling out people for viewing Stewart with skepticism. It is completely reasonable for people to think Stewart was partially in the wrong, but it is Stewart's defense's job to make the above points to create reasonable doubt.

    Ok, i gotta get working. Was fun debating with all of you. :)


    Let me say this slowly so you understand. People can view Stewart with skepticism. I have no problem with that. You aren't viewing him with skepticism you are rushing to judgement.


    Oh God, did you just pull a Johnny Cochran?

    (as an aside, I increased my post count; WOOT!)
    huskylawyer
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  • Everyone who has responded with 'you are rushing to judgement' has rushed to releasing Stewart from any fault.
    SonicHawk
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  • bigtrain21 wrote:
    huskylawyer wrote:
    These are all fair and good arguments.

    The only thing that bothers me with this thread is people calling out people for viewing Stewart with skepticism. It is completely reasonable for people to think Stewart was partially in the wrong, but it is Stewart's defense's job to make the above points to create reasonable doubt.

    Ok, i gotta get working. Was fun debating with all of you. :)


    Let me say this slowly so you understand. People can view Stewart with skepticism. I have no problem with that. You aren't viewing him with skepticism you are rushing to judgement.


    Let me say this slowly...

    you... have... no... idea... what... you... are... talking... about.


    No one has rushed to judgement, there is a short video seen from a distance, normal humans tend to look at evidence and then build upon that the best they can. Only an idiot would have trouble seeing that there's a chance (no matter how great) that Stewart put himself in a poor position intentionally.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:Everyone who has responded with 'you are rushing to judgement' has rushed to releasing Stewart from any fault.



    Innocent until proven guilty, that is unless SonicHawks is the Judge. Everyone goes to jail til we figure it out! How quick Americans turn there back on the American process.
    Brahn
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  • Brahn wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:Everyone who has responded with 'you are rushing to judgement' has rushed to releasing Stewart from any fault.



    Innocent until proven guilty, that is unless SonicHawks is the Judge. Everyone goes to jail til we figure it out! How quick Americans turn there back on the American process.


    Another person who has yet to read anything I wrote!

    I only said based off the basic evidence and my understanding of the situation I believe that Tony Stewart should/would be charged, not convicted. There's an enormous difference and if you can't see that I can't help you.

    We're all working on assumptions right now, but I'd rather have an investigation to get to bottom of this then just say "it's racing, and Ward is an idiot so he deserved to die."
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Brahn wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:Everyone who has responded with 'you are rushing to judgement' has rushed to releasing Stewart from any fault.



    Innocent until proven guilty, that is unless SonicHawks is the Judge. Everyone goes to jail til we figure it out! How quick Americans turn there back on the American process.


    Another person who has yet to read anything I wrote!

    I only said based off the basic evidence and my understanding of the situation I believe that Tony Stewart should/would be charged, not convicted. There's an enormous difference and if you can't see that I can't help you.

    We're all working on assumptions right now, but I'd rather have an investigation to get to bottom of this then just say "it's racing, and Ward is an idiot so he deserved to die."


    It's racing. Machismo and adrenaline are tough to just turn off in a split second. Ward was an idiot who helped create the circumstances of his own demise. Few deserve to die, yet all do, and punishing idiocy on the track, field, diamond, or rink seems to be one of the more slippery slopes there is in jurisprudence.

    If no charges are ever filed, but a wrongful death suit costs Tony millions, will justice be served?
    Scottemojo
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  • Justice was already served.
    Largent80
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    It's racing. Machismo and adrenaline are tough to just turn off in a split second. Ward was an idiot who helped create the circumstances of his own demise. Few deserve to die, yet all do, and punishing idiocy on the track, field, diamond, or rink seems to be one of the more slippery slopes there is in jurisprudence.

    If no charges are ever filed, but a wrongful death suit costs Tony millions, will justice be served?


    That is absolutely ridiculous. You excuse Stewart's actions for machismo and adrenaline but fault Ward for doing the same thing?

    This discussion is pathetic, too many people excusing Stewart because he was on a playing field. The playing field isn't anarchy. It's not a law-free sanctuary. Negligent actions that directly lead to the death of another competitor should be investigated, charged and if proven, justify a prison sentence.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    It's racing. Machismo and adrenaline are tough to just turn off in a split second. Ward was an idiot who helped create the circumstances of his own demise. Few deserve to die, yet all do, and punishing idiocy on the track, field, diamond, or rink seems to be one of the more slippery slopes there is in jurisprudence.

    If no charges are ever filed, but a wrongful death suit costs Tony millions, will justice be served?


    That is absolutely ridiculous. You excuse Stewart's actions for machismo and adrenaline but fault Ward for doing the same thing?

    This discussion is pathetic, too many people excusing Stewart because he was on a playing field. The playing field isn't anarchy. It's not a law-free sanctuary. Negligent actions that directly lead to the death of another competitor should be investigated, charged and if proven, justify a prison sentence.


    Im with you on this one Sonic. And like you mention, no one is saying he needs/should/will be convicted. But you are correct that he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Whether or not he is convicted will be what the evidence and judicial system decide. Wards not absolved of his responsibility of this btw but Tonys actions (accelerating the sprint car and drifting the backend into Ward, WHILE under a caution) is suspect at the very least and needs to be handled appropriately. Sports/Racing whatever does not give way to illegality.

    And once again, involuntary manslaughter is not Tony purposely trying to kill Ward. But if they prove Tony knowingly did something that would increase the danger of Ward, he has to be held accountable as well.
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  • Largent80 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tracks-change-rules-wards-death-195707264--spt.html


    Thanks for the link with no context or opinion or anything. Are you making an argument or just sharing some somewhat-related information?

    Ward getting out of his car and whether that was dumb, illegal or anything else has absolutely no bearing on the case against Stewart.
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  • Cartire wrote:But you are correct that he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.


    Based on what evidence? A prosecutor can't just bring charges against someone without evidence. There was none on that video. There has to be proof that Stewart acted recklessly or with criminal negligence to bring a charge of involuntary manslaughter. Since it's impossible to know from that video how soon Stewart saw Ward or what actions he took prior to striking him there is no real case against him unless there is evidence from some other source. The only indisputable evidence of reckless or negligent behavior on that video was by Ward.
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  • TXHawk wrote:
    Cartire wrote:But you are correct that he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.


    Based on what evidence? A prosecutor can't just bring charges against someone without evidence. There was none on that video. There has to be proof that Stewart acted recklessly or with criminal negligence to bring a charge of involuntary manslaughter. Since it's impossible to know from that video how soon Stewart saw Ward or what actions he took prior to striking him there is no real case against him unless there is evidence from some other source. The only indisputable evidence of reckless or negligent behavior on that video was by Ward.


    You do realize that this single video isn't the only evidence available to authorities?

    You're right, you can't convict anyone with just that video. Anyone suggesting that is wrong. But that video isn't going to be the only evidence (if there is more suggesting Stewart was in the wrong).
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  • The only thing I'm certain of is that if the kid stays in his vehicle, he see's the next day.
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  • Largent80 wrote:If someone at a McDonalds can sue and win over spilling hot coffee on themselves anything is possible.

    However, and this has been pointed out many times. Ward was on the track. He was on the track in violation of sanctioning rules. He did so on his own accord. Even without all the other mitigating circumstances, this simply is not a criminal case, and I would go so far as to say they don't have a chance in civil court either.

    You should read the actual details of that case. It's not that simple.

    McDonald's was brewing and storing their coffee at 140+ degrees Fahrenheit, so that it could sit on a counter while food is prepared and not be too cold to serve. That temperature is so high that it causes instant scalding upon contact with skin, badly enough to cause instant second degree burns.

    Regulatory codes in most districts throughout America require that fluids be heated or stored no higher than 120-125 deg F, which is still very hot but doesn't cause instantaneous scalding. Check the water heater at your house. If you live in WA, code requires that your plumber install and set the heater no higher than 120. This is to prevent scalding accidents.

    When I was in residency, we saw a couple small children admitted to the burn unit with serious life threatening 3rd degree burns because their father had installed his own water heater and manually set the temperature too high. How do I know this? Because I overheard the firefighter talking about this very topic and he explained that all water heaters are required by federal regulation to be shipped with the thermostat no higher than 120.
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  • I'm pretty sure the Judge only awarded like $600k too. Which is a lot for what amounts to selling too hot of water, but companies don't learn unless you hit them in the checkbook.
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  • UK_Seahawk wrote:The only thing I'm certain of is that if the kid stays in his vehicle, he see's the next day.


    Probably, that doesn't have anything to do with the discussion though.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tracks-change-rules-wards-death-195707264--spt.html


    Thanks for the link with no context or opinion or anything. Are you making an argument or just sharing some somewhat-related information?

    Ward getting out of his car and whether that was dumb, illegal or anything else has absolutely no bearing on the case against Stewart.


    I simply read the story, copied the link and posted it. As was mentioned by the drivers, it would be hard to enforce it in Nascar simply because of the sizes of the tracks. NHRA has the best safety crews in the racing world, however, it is a lot easier to get to a car/driver in distress on a 1/4 mile raceway.

    There is no case against Stewart the last time I checked, so I think this topic has run it's course.
    Largent80
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    It's racing. Machismo and adrenaline are tough to just turn off in a split second. Ward was an idiot who helped create the circumstances of his own demise. Few deserve to die, yet all do, and punishing idiocy on the track, field, diamond, or rink seems to be one of the more slippery slopes there is in jurisprudence.

    If no charges are ever filed, but a wrongful death suit costs Tony millions, will justice be served?


    That is absolutely ridiculous. You excuse Stewart's actions for machismo and adrenaline but fault Ward for doing the same thing?

    This discussion is pathetic, too many people excusing Stewart because he was on a playing field. The playing field isn't anarchy. It's not a law-free sanctuary. Negligent actions that directly lead to the death of another competitor should be investigated, charged and if proven, justify a prison sentence.

    Of course not. I also don't think it's right to make one guy accountable for what two people made happen, especially when evil intent can't be proven. A pitcher buzzing a guy after a homerun can go equally wrong. Somebody charging the mound after being buzzed is very much a broken statute. Do you want assault charges filed each time it happens? Should Suh have faced assault charges for stomping on Deitrich Smith?
    Scottemojo
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  • We're talking about an extreme case in which someone is dead.

    And yes, players have been charged with assault for charging the mound. All sports have had extreme cases in which the police have become involved. This would set no precedent.

    I don't care to answer your question about Suh because it's irrelevant in this case. This is not a slippery slope discussion.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:We're talking about an extreme case in which someone is dead.

    And yes, players have been charged with assault for charging the mound. All sports have had extreme cases in which the police have become involved. This would set no precedent.

    I don't care to answer your question about Suh because it's irrelevant in this case. This is not a slippery slope discussion.



    Like I thought. You are outraged at the result.

    Brian Blades dinked around with a gun and killed his cousin. Should he have gone to prison?
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  • SonicHawk wrote:Everyone who has responded with 'you are rushing to judgement' has rushed to releasing Stewart from any fault.


    I don't think you get it. Rushing to judgement applies to both sides. I am not rushing to judgement that he is guilty just like I am not rushing to judgement that he is not guilty. We don't know at this point. Hopefully we find out what his intentions were.
    bigtrain21
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Let me say this slowly...

    you... have... no... idea... what... you... are... talking... about.


    No one has rushed to judgement, there is a short video seen from a distance, normal humans tend to look at evidence and then build upon that the best they can. Only an idiot would have trouble seeing that there's a chance (no matter how great) that Stewart put himself in a poor position intentionally.


    I think you have reading comprehension issues. There is definitely a chance he put himself in a poor position intentionally. I have not made a single post where I said Stewart is innocent or guilty because at this point we do not know.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:We're talking about an extreme case in which someone is dead.

    And yes, players have been charged with assault for charging the mound. All sports have had extreme cases in which the police have become involved. This would set no precedent.

    I don't care to answer your question about Suh because it's irrelevant in this case. This is not a slippery slope discussion.



    Like I thought. You are outraged at the result.

    Brian Blades dinked around with a gun and killed his cousin. Should he have gone to prison?


    You continue to paint me as emotional, which I'm not. A man died and it is only fair to investigate. I have yet to suggest Stewart should be convicted of anything.
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  • Here's a thought...

    If Tony Stewart is a hot head based on prior incidents in his racing career, then that means Kevin is even more of a hothead based on his actions in comparison with Tony's previous actions (Tony never did anything as impulsive as what Kevin did)...so if hotheadedness caused death, and in this case the hotheadedness caused the death of a person who is even more hotheaded, then might this have prevented a future death or two from Kevin's hotheadedness?


    I know...I know....that's not how this shit works. It's just a thought...so relax.
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  • The biggest thing that leads me to believe Stewart had no intent to scare the guy or kick up dirt at him was what #45 said. TS looks to be right behind him following the same line. If #45 saw him at the last second, how much time does TS have to react. Also from the video, I see his tail whipping to the left...obviously too late
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:We're talking about an extreme case in which someone is dead.

    And yes, players have been charged with assault for charging the mound. All sports have had extreme cases in which the police have become involved. This would set no precedent.

    I don't care to answer your question about Suh because it's irrelevant in this case. This is not a slippery slope discussion.



    Like I thought. You are outraged at the result.

    Brian Blades dinked around with a gun and killed his cousin. Should he have gone to prison?


    You continue to paint me as emotional, which I'm not. A man died and it is only fair to investigate. I have yet to suggest Stewart should be convicted of anything.


    No, but you've said he should be charged but not convicted and that's just as bad. A person should only be charged with a crime if a preponderance of evidence indicates guilt. You've provided no evidence of why Stewart should be charged other than guesswork at his state of mind yet you want it done anyway. You say that authorities are are looking at other evidence, and I'm sure they are, but you've seen none yet other than the video and you are still calling for him to be charged with a crime. That's pretty much the definition of a rush to judgement.
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  • -The Glove- wrote:The biggest thing that leads me to believe Stewart had no intent to scare the guy or kick up dirt at him was what #45 said. TS looks to be right behind him following the same line. If #45 saw him at the last second, how much time does TS have to react. Also from the video, I see his tail whipping to the left...obviously too late


    True, but Stewart's car was actually several feet higher on the track than the 45 car providing even less room to avoid Ward.

    Ward also obviously mistook the 45 car for Tony Stewart's car even though they are different colors (blue and white vs black and white). He started walking towards it and pointing before apparently realizing his mistake as it went by. This to me is further evidence of poor visibility with the dim lighting in that corner of the track with the dirt kicked up in the air and coating visors. In fact he wasn't even pointing at Stewart's car when he was hit. By the time that the 45 car had passed and Stewart's car appeared it looked like Ward realized he was in Stewart's path and was bracing himself to jump backwards. The reason that Ward had come so far down the track was because he was going after the wrong car which was running lower on the track than Stewart's.
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  • This is a real chicken-or-the-egg situation, and one that involves so many physical and mental aspects. The key missing ingredient is not knowing what Stewart actually saw happening; an ingredient we will never have.

    This is another one of those times when you wish we had the technology to tap in and replay what Stewart's eyes saw on a about a 40-inch HD monitor. Tech like that would change a lot about pretty much, well, everything.

    "Fringe" on Fox, wasn't it?
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  • I genuinely can't believe that people are looking at the #45 car as proof of anything.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJdBd0 ... 1408115901

    #1. Tony Stewart is well aware that the car he hit is wrecked, he knows the location. The #45 was only aware of a caution. We've already determined that these cars have poor visibility (especially behind). #45 has an excuse for getting so close in the first place yet he avoids him.

    #2. The #45 car is traveling significantly slower at the time of the accident, why in the world Stewart, who knows the location of the crash and can easily see the #45 car slow down and move out of the way is he traveling so fast?

    #3. Stewarts trajectory a millisecond prior to the crash is taking him relatively close to the crashed car of Ward. This leads me to believe that Stewart assumed Ward was probably still in his car at the time. Common sense would put a normal person as far away from the crash spot as possible.

    #4. Stewart is by far the most talented driver on the track. His situational awareness and abilities allow him to do things most normal drivers couldn't.

    #5. Stewart makes an obvious move to avoid intentionally hitting him. By this time it was way too late, the car is too close traveling at too high of a speed to take it off course.

    I don't really understand how you could disagree with any of this, but, have at it.
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  • TXHawk wrote:
    -The Glove- wrote:The biggest thing that leads me to believe Stewart had no intent to scare the guy or kick up dirt at him was what #45 said. TS looks to be right behind him following the same line. If #45 saw him at the last second, how much time does TS have to react. Also from the video, I see his tail whipping to the left...obviously too late


    True, but Stewart's car was actually several feet higher on the track than the 45 car providing even less room to avoid Ward.

    Ward also obviously mistook the 45 car for Tony Stewart's car even though they are different colors (blue and white vs black and white). He started walking towards it and pointing before apparently realizing his mistake as it went by. This to me is further evidence of poor visibility with the dim lighting in that corner of the track with the dirt kicked up in the air and coating visors. In fact he wasn't even pointing at Stewart's car when he was hit. By the time that the 45 car had passed and Stewart's car appeared it looked like Ward realized he was in Stewart's path and was bracing himself to jump backwards. The reason that Ward had come so far down the track was because he was going after the wrong car which was running lower on the track than Stewart's.


    First of all, he wasn't pointing at Stewart at the last few seconds because he was diving out of the way. And no, he wasn't pointing at the 45 car at any point.

    3 seconds before the hit:

    Image

    2 seconds before the hit:

    Image

    The 45 was easily able to get out of the way because he was traveling at a significantly lower speed than Stewart.

    Also, here's the difference of track location between the 45 (who had no idea there was an accident there) and Stewart (who was well aware of the accident location and traveling at a higher speed)

    Image
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:#1. Tony Stewart is well aware that the car he hit is wrecked, he knows the location. The #45 was only aware of a caution. We've already determined that these cars have poor visibility (especially behind). #45 has an excuse for getting so close in the first place yet he avoids him.


    You know this how? Their cars didn't appear to touch in the video and the race steward didn't think they did. And since Ward's wreck took place behind him and his car has no mirrors or radios how is it that Stewart was supposed to know that Ward hit the wall? By sensing a disturbance in the Force? Psychic intuition? Eyes in the back of his head? You are attempting to give him near supernatural powers to claim he must have had perfect situational awareness. Stewart didn't have the benefit of watching a Youtube video of the crash as he came around the track on the caution.

    #2. The #45 car is traveling significantly slower at the time of the accident, why in the world Stewart, who knows the location of the crash and can easily see the #45 car slow down and move out of the way is he traveling so fast?


    You can't see any actions the 45 car takes prior to entering the video and he exits the video on the same line as he entered it. He is no lower on the track. And there is no discernable difference in speed between his car and Stewart's car, much less a significant one.

    #3. Stewarts trajectory a millisecond prior to the crash is taking him relatively close to the crashed car of Ward. This leads me to believe that Stewart assumed Ward was probably still in his car at the time. Common sense would put a normal person as far away from the crash spot as possible.


    As your gif shows Stewart was maybe two or three feet higher on the track than the 45 and would have easily missed the crash. At least one other car passed by the wreck much higher on the track after Ward had exited his car but before he had started descending down it.

    #4. Stewart is by far the most talented driver on the track. His situational awareness and abilities allow him to do things most normal drivers couldn't.


    For starters I think you are underestimating ths skill of some of these dirt track racers. Stewart doesn't necessarily dominate these races; they are usually quite competitive which is why he likes to race in them. Sprint cars are 800 hp beasts that are extremely difficult to master and some of the drivers who do nothing other than race them are very good at it. Many have spent years racing on the same local tracks and know every bump on them. Stewart was the outsider who probably had less familiarity with the track and the tendencies of the other drivers than anyone else on the track.

    #5. Stewart makes an obvious move to avoid intentionally hitting him. By this time it was way too late, the car is too close traveling at too high of a speed to take it off course.


    I heard a report on ESPN where the reporter said the race steward told him he thought Stewart was running at an appropriate speed after the caution came out. There was nothing reckless or unsafe about Stewart's speed or position on the track.

    I don't think there's any question that Ward initially came down after the 45 car by mistake. The only reason that car didn't hit him is because Ward hadn't placed himself in the path of that car the way he had Stewart's car.
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  • Whether Stewart hit Ward's car doesn't matter. You don't think Stewart is aware of his position on the track and that Ward had no choice but to wreck? You don't think he knows that he's pushing Ward to the edge of the track?

    You obviously think Stewart got to where he is as a professional driver through complete luck. Not incredible situational awareness and talent.

    Just because you possess absolutely no great talent in anything doesn't mean that Tony Stewart doesn't and for you for one second to think that Stewart is not aware of Ward's wreck is to be ignorant of what makes Stewart one of the top drivers.

    ---

    #45 is significantly slower than Stewarts. I once again have to apologize, most humans are able to see when a car is going faster than another car. You do not possess that ability and I apologize.

    ---

    Two or three feet higher? Who's feet? A giant's?

    ---

    I'm not underestimating the skill of the other drivers, they are all relatively talented. Tony Stewart has always been a top driver, you don't think he was a successful sprint car driver as well? He's one of only TWO drivers in the HISTORY of racing to win the 'Triple Crown' in the same year (Sprint, Midget, Silver). He's not just some pedestrian sprint car driver.

    ---
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:Whether Stewart hit Ward's car doesn't matter. You don't think Stewart is aware of his position on the track and that Ward had no choice but to wreck? You don't think he knows that he's pushing Ward to the edge of the track?

    You obviously think Stewart got to where he is as a professional driver through complete luck. Not incredible situational awareness and talent.

    Just because you possess absolutely no great talent in anything doesn't mean that Tony Stewart doesn't and for you for one second to think that Stewart is not aware of Ward's wreck is to be ignorant of what makes Stewart one of the top drivers.

    ---

    #45 is significantly slower than Stewarts. I once again have to apologize, most humans are able to see when a car is going faster than another car. You do not possess that ability and I apologize.

    ---

    Two or three feet higher? Who's feet? A giant's?

    ---

    I'm not underestimating the skill of the other drivers, they are all relatively talented. Tony Stewart has always been a top driver, you don't think he was a successful sprint car driver as well? He's one of only TWO drivers in the HISTORY of racing to win the 'Triple Crown' in the same year (Sprint, Midget, Silver). He's not just some pedestrian sprint car driver.

    ---


    Ah, resorting to personal insults. The ultimate sign of a losing argument.

    You have nothing to support anything you are saying, Nada. Zip. It's all rank speculation and mind reading.
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  • Tired of responding to your absolute nonsense.

    I have consistently responded to you with proof and obvious, observable evidence and all you can reply with is feelings and thoughts that are not backed by anything but you're obvious love of Stewart.

    I'm insulting you now because you think you're making points and you're not. It's difficult to argue when you consistently deny obvious things.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:Tired of responding to your absolute nonsense.

    I have consistently responded to you with proof and obvious, observable evidence and all you can reply with is feelings and thoughts that are not backed by anything but you're obvious love of Stewart.

    I'm insulting you now because you think you're making points and you're not. It's difficult to argue when you consistently deny obvious things.


    Wow pot meet kettle. After reading through all of this its pretty clear you have your mind set on one view and only that view. You have never been open to the possibility that a guy doing something stupid eneded up getting killed.
    Fudwamper
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  • I am happy to pass along the report a Grand Jury has decided not to indict Tony Stewart. They had access to much more evidence than we ever did. Accidents are horrible and lessons can be learned, let's hope that this is prevented in the future.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/sport ... .html?_r=0
    SonicHawk
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  • It was a terrible thing. Lessons are learned from terrible things.

    I love racing of all kinds and I hate seeing stuff like this. Here is to hoping this tragedy will be that lesson to every driver/racer out there. Stay in your car unless it is on fire, and leave the confrontations for after the race.
    Largent80
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  • Jville
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  • Dude, literally posted the story 2 posts above.
    SonicHawk
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  • Largent80 wrote:It was a terrible thing. Lessons are learned from terrible things.

    I love racing of all kinds and I hate seeing stuff like this. Here is to hoping this tragedy will be that lesson to every driver/racer out there. Stay in your car unless it is on fire, and leave the confrontations for after the race.


    Maybe it will also be a lesson to everyone who thinks they know what someone's intent was.
    volsunghawk
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  • Then there's this little tidbit from the Ontario County prosecutor.

    Ontario County District Attorney Michael Tantillo said the victim, Kevin Ward Jr., was under the influence of marijuana the night of the accident "enough to impair judgment."

    http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/st ... in-ward-jr
    SeatownJay
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:It was a terrible thing. Lessons are learned from terrible things.

    I love racing of all kinds and I hate seeing stuff like this. Here is to hoping this tragedy will be that lesson to every driver/racer out there. Stay in your car unless it is on fire, and leave the confrontations for after the race.


    Maybe it will also be a lesson to everyone who thinks they know what someone's intent was.


    Of course. How could anyone think Tony Stewart intended to kill Ward?
    Largent80
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  • SonicHawk wrote:I am happy to pass along the report a Grand Jury has decided not to indict Tony Stewart. They had access to much more evidence than we ever did. Accidents are horrible and lessons can be learned, let's hope that this is prevented in the future.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/sport ... .html?_r=0


    Changed your tune have you? I thought you read his mind and knew his intention was to buzz the kid and should be prosecuted for it.

    SonicHawk wrote:This was involuntary manslaughter and should be prosecuted as such.
    TXHawk
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  • I stand by my initial thoughts and perception of the case. I'm glad that the grand jury took a look at it and with more information than I had access to came to that conclusion.

    I however, still have my own personal beliefs. Not going to apologize for taking the information that I had and coming to a conclusion.

    This doesn't prove you right. You have no reason to gloat.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:I stand by my initial thoughts and perception of the case. I'm glad that the grand jury took a look at it and with more information than I had access to came to that conclusion.

    I however, still have my own personal beliefs. Not going to apologize for taking the information that I had and coming to a conclusion.

    This doesn't prove you right. You have no reason to gloat.


    All my argument was the entire time was that we need to let the facts come out more and for some reason you had a huge problem with me taking that stance.
    bigtrain21
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  • Smoking pot is always a good idea when you get into a car with 750-800 hp on a short dirt track. moron :34853_doh:
    NorCalSeahawkFan
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  • bigtrain21 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:I stand by my initial thoughts and perception of the case. I'm glad that the grand jury took a look at it and with more information than I had access to came to that conclusion.

    I however, still have my own personal beliefs. Not going to apologize for taking the information that I had and coming to a conclusion.

    This doesn't prove you right. You have no reason to gloat.


    All my argument was the entire time was that we need to let the facts come out more and for some reason you had a huge problem with me taking that stance.


    More facts still haven't come out. So I'm assuming you're waiting for them still.

    Oh, and thanks for releasing the toxicology which mentions he had marijuana in his system. Which obviously means he was red-eyed and high. No fault by Stewart! Kid was high as "heck". No mention of the fact that marijuana can be detected up to about 90 days later for routine participants.

    I guarantee you that just like OJ, Stewart will be paying that family a hefty chunk of cash.
    SonicHawk
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