After Taking it all in

[TheLegendOfBoom]

What’s really ironic is Carroll really does have this hardline approach where it is his way and that’s the only way.

It’ll ultimately, be his downfall.

I think once Wilson leaves, Carroll leaves as well. Either by his own accord or he gets axed.

But Carroll played correctly in the beginning. Play to your strengths, which was the run game with Lynch and an elite historical defense in the Legion of Boom. Okay, yeah, completely understandable. Those are the team strengths. Good for you. Many coaches would also do that.

Now, the run game and defense are no longer the backbone of this team. Carroll does not play to the current strengths which is Wilson. He cannot seem to do what is best for the team by playing to its strengths. Now would be the time to build the offensive line and let Wilson win all the games he possibly can for you and removing any restraints on him. It’s not like Wilson is a rookie or in his second or third year.

If Wilson leaves and Carroll stays, Jody Allen completely mismanaged this team. And it’s not even close.

You keep Wilson happy. Not Carroll.

 

[LickMyNuts]

“Pro Football Focus counts 14 of Wilson’s 47 sacks being on him and not the offensive line. That’s second-most in the league. Wilson said he needs to play better, but he can’t keep holding onto the ball as long he does.”

Per Clayton article on 710

Also goes on to say that he’s likely pissed off the offensive lineman who will be back next year. And not in a good way.

RW should have dropped some money to help the Seahawks sign a new left guard. I played offensive line through college and this would make me a little less concerned about the safety of my QB.

Most of these guys play with injuries with little to no credit.

 

[OrangeGravy]

What’s really ironic is Carroll really does have this hardline approach where it is his way and that’s the only way.

It’ll ultimately, be his downfall.

I think once Wilson leaves, Carroll leaves as well. Either by his own accord or he gets axed.

But Carroll played correctly in the beginning. Play to your strengths, which was the run game with Lynch and an elite historical defense in the Legion of Boom. Okay, yeah, completely understandable. Those are the team strengths. Good for you. Many coaches would also do that.

Now, the run game and defense are no longer the backbone of this team. Carroll does not play to the current strengths which is Wilson. He cannot seem to do what is best for the team by playing to its strengths. Now would be the time to build the offensive line and let Wilson win all the games he possibly can for you and removing any restraints on him. It’s not like Wilson is a rookie or in his second or third year.

If Wilson leaves and Carroll stays, Jody Allen completely mismanaged this team. And it’s not even close.

You keep Wilson happy. Not Carroll.

I don't think he or anyone else in the org think Wilson is that guy including some players.

 

[Mix]

Wanting they cake, and to eat it as well.

I want to count the most towards the cap, also I want you to field a team around me that equals the one I had when I was making far less.

These QBs never mention their cap hit and the situation it puts a team in, and yes the team has to agree to pay it welcome to mutually assured destruction.

 

[Elemas]

How many people would’ve even brought up trade scenarios in the first 5 games of this year? None. Russ cooked. The offense was rolling. Players were happy. Russ still has the ability to do that.

It was 100% a philosophical change. A change in playcalling. The whole two safety thing..that’s a simple adjustment. Schotty wasn’t fired because he couldn’t adjust to the new defensive looks. Are you kidding me?

It went back to Pete Ball. Russ, rightfully so, put management on notice.

The fact that there’s even smoke on the best franchise QB, sure shot HOFer, and when it’s all said and done, a top 10...top 7 QB in the NFL is straight blasphemy.

I’ve posted trade scenarios, none of which we win, and am now looking at it like why is this even a consideration?

If PC and RW can’t coexist, you get rid of PETE. Plain and simple.

While I don’t like RWs hit against the cap, I enjoy 12-4...and getting bounced out of the playoffs much more than what would happen with a subpar QB back there.

Seahawks football was fun through the earlier games this last season. Imagine the D clicking at the same time. It can be done.

I

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

What’s really ironic is Carroll really does have this hardline approach where it is his way and that’s the only way.

It’ll ultimately, be his downfall.

I think once Wilson leaves, Carroll leaves as well. Either by his own accord or he gets axed.

But Carroll played correctly in the beginning. Play to your strengths, which was the run game with Lynch and an elite historical defense in the Legion of Boom. Okay, yeah, completely understandable. Those are the team strengths. Good for you. Many coaches would also do that.

Now, the run game and defense are no longer the backbone of this team. Carroll does not play to the current strengths which is Wilson. He cannot seem to do what is best for the team by playing to its strengths. Now would be the time to build the offensive line and let Wilson win all the games he possibly can for you and removing any restraints on him. It’s not like Wilson is a rookie or in his second or third year.

If Wilson leaves and Carroll stays, Jody Allen completely mismanaged this team. And it’s not even close.

You keep Wilson happy. Not Carroll.

I don't think he or anyone else in the org think Wilson is that guy including some players.

Well, Wilson is paid to be that “guy.”

You either go “all in” on the guy you paid, and make him the forefront representing your team or you should decide to build with another QB.

It’s not all that complicated. Wilson, the second he was paid and became the highest paid player in the NFL (at that time) was the guy you stand with.

It’s incredibly insulting to Wilson knowing the organization does not believe in him enough to build around him and give him some say.

I’d leave if I was Wilson too.

If I’m not good enough for Pete Carroll (Wilson) then I’ll be damned if I waste any more of my time and talents playing for him.

It’s an easy decision. I want to win rings and this man hampers my ability to play at my strengths.

It’s time to leave.

 

[jammerhawk]

Of course he wants out.

The issue is why Pete let it get to this point. Wilson WARNED Pete this past season. It was literally leaked that if Pete did not open the offense up and 'Let Russ Cook' that Russ would be gone. And for a while it worked but then Pete clamped down on it.

Well, Wilson was not kidding. The very quote (paraphrased) was that if they did not let Russ cook he would find somewhere else that would.

So when Pete shut the offense down, he screwed himself. He was warned if not threatened. Chose to disregard and that moment he did - Wilson started planning his exit. When Watson showed you can do it early, Wilsons camp started the process early.

I don't really care about the how/why. I just want him to come out and say it, so it can be dealt with and we can get as much as we can for him. I'm not mad at him. Just man up and say it publicly. Some fans will hate him forever, some won't no matter what, so just do it. I'm perfectly ok with trading him, Bobby, and Adams then running it back. I'm actually kind of excited about the thought of it.

Yeah, I can't wait to get back to the pre-Russ era of 30+ years mostly ranging from bottom feeding to mediocrity and not having a franchise QB. What's not to be excited about?

The most realistic post about this situation on the board.

Be very careful what you wish for. Pete is a winning coach, but can him, b/c he hasn't won a SB recently and has old (to some) ideas. Wilson is an expensive elite QB who wants more protection and help to be greater, so trade him.

Be prepared to suck like Cleveland or Cincie or Detroit or (you name the team for a while until the team finds another excellent HC and another Franchise QB, neither of which are readily available at the NFL store if you want to keep a an annual playoff contender.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

Writing has been on the wall for a long time, that’s why GB moved ahead of Seattle in the 2020 to draft QB Jordan Love. It’s also the reason Schneider scouted QB Mahomes. The good news about the trade talk with Cleveland is Schneider wouldn’t give Cleveland what they wanted for the #1 pick so Schneider has credibility in this trade of RW.

 

[John63]

“Pro Football Focus counts 14 of Wilson’s 47 sacks being on him and not the offensive line. That’s second-most in the league. Wilson said he needs to play better, but he can’t keep holding onto the ball as long he does.”

Per Clayton article on 710

Also goes on to say that he’s likely pissed off the offensive lineman who will be back next year. And not in a good way.

RW should have dropped some money to help the Seahawks sign a new left guard. I played offensive line through college and this would make me a little less concerned about the safety of my QB.

Most of these guys play with injuries with little to no credit.

Okay first do you know why we have our great left tackle? Because Wilson redid his contract, and that was not the first time.

2nd yes some say 14 of the sacks are on Wilson, that would leave 33 which would still be top 10, 2nd they don't say how many sacks Wilson saved form happening. They also don't say of the 14 how many were coverage sacks were Wilson has done to throw to. You can argue then throw it away which is legit except 1 he has to be outside the box, and 2 what down is it. Makes little sense to throw it away on 3rd down.

Lots of missing data with those 14 versus 47. not as cut and dry as some would have you believe.

 

[John63]

“Pro Football Focus counts 14 of Wilson’s 47 sacks being on him and not the offensive line. That’s second-most in the league. Wilson said he needs to play better, but he can’t keep holding onto the ball as long he does.”

Per Clayton article on 710

Also goes on to say that he’s likely pissed off the offensive lineman who will be back next year. And not in a good way.

RW should have dropped some money to help the Seahawks sign a new left guard. I played offensive line through college and this would make me a little less concerned about the safety of my QB.

Most of these guys play with injuries with little to no credit.

Okay first do you know why we have our great left tackle? Because Wilson redid his contract, and that was not the first time.

2nd yes some say 14 of the sacks are on Wilson, that would leave 33 which would still be top 10, 2nd they don't say how many sacks Wilson saved form happening. They also don't say of the 14 how many were coverage sacks were Wilson has done to throw to. You can argue then throw it away which is legit except 1 he has to be outside the box, and 2 what down is it. Makes little sense to throw it away on 3rd down.

Lots of missing data with those 14 versus 47. not as cut and dry as some would have you believe.

Also Sacks are only part of the equation. what about hits, hurries, pressures. also, ESPN said Wilson led the league in hits, hurries, pressures, and sacks in under 2.5 seconds. That is not good.

Footballotusiders takes all that into account when they do their oline rankings, guess what Seattle was ranked bottom 5.

Also guess what its not just Wilson even the 2 years before Wilson our oline ranked bottom 5 with 2 other QBs including Hass.

 

[OrangeGravy]

How many people would’ve even brought up trade scenarios in the first 5 games of this year? None. Russ cooked. The offense was rolling. Players were happy. Russ still has the ability to do that.

It was 100% a philosophical change. A change in playcalling. The whole two safety thing..that’s a simple adjustment. Schotty wasn’t fired because he couldn’t adjust to the new defensive looks. Are you kidding me?

It went back to Pete Ball. Russ, rightfully so, put management on notice.

The fact that there’s even smoke on the best franchise QB, sure shot HOFer, and when it’s all said and done, a top 10...top 7 QB in the NFL is straight blasphemy.

I’ve posted trade scenarios, none of which we win, and am now looking at it like why is this even a consideration?

If PC and RW can’t coexist, you get rid of PETE. Plain and simple.

While I don’t like RWs hit against the cap, I enjoy 12-4...and getting bounced out of the playoffs much more than what would happen with a subpar QB back there.

Seahawks football was fun through the earlier games this last season. Imagine the D clicking at the same time. It can be done.

I

If PC and RW can’t coexist, you get rid of PETE.

That may be the right thing to do, but that isn't likely to happen with the way the Ownership/Org is situated currently. You can yell and scream about it all you want, but all indications are that the Org won't go that route. I'd be more surprised if they did that than trade Russell if it ever got down to it.

 

[OrangeGravy]

What’s really ironic is Carroll really does have this hardline approach where it is his way and that’s the only way.

It’ll ultimately, be his downfall.

I think once Wilson leaves, Carroll leaves as well. Either by his own accord or he gets axed.

But Carroll played correctly in the beginning. Play to your strengths, which was the run game with Lynch and an elite historical defense in the Legion of Boom. Okay, yeah, completely understandable. Those are the team strengths. Good for you. Many coaches would also do that.

Now, the run game and defense are no longer the backbone of this team. Carroll does not play to the current strengths which is Wilson. He cannot seem to do what is best for the team by playing to its strengths. Now would be the time to build the offensive line and let Wilson win all the games he possibly can for you and removing any restraints on him. It’s not like Wilson is a rookie or in his second or third year.

If Wilson leaves and Carroll stays, Jody Allen completely mismanaged this team. And it’s not even close.

You keep Wilson happy. Not Carroll.

I don't think he or anyone else in the org think Wilson is that guy including some players.

Well, Wilson is paid to be that “guy.”

You either go “all in” on the guy you paid, and make him the forefront representing your team or you should decide to build with another QB.

It’s not all that complicated. Wilson, the second he was paid and became the highest paid player in the NFL (at that time) was the guy you stand with.

It’s incredibly insulting to Wilson knowing the organization does not believe in him enough to build around him and give him some say.

I’d leave if I was Wilson too.

If I’m not good enough for Pete Carroll (Wilson) then I’ll be damned if I waste any more of my time and talents playing for him.

It’s an easy decision. I want to win rings and this man hampers my ability to play at my strengths.

It’s time to leave.

I don't disagree with your sentiment regarding deciding to go all in or not. I think the real miscalculation by Pete/John in this scenario and what I would blame them most for and to a lessor extent, Russell, is that this conversation about philosophy/offensive approach should have happened before the last contract extension. Both sides should have been clear about what they expected going forward from each other. We'll never know if that happened or not and to what degree. That was the time to either work it out or agree to either play the contract out and let Russ hit FA or work on a trade deal both parties could handle.

 

[12th Dimension]

The one thing no one is talking about is the pandemic and how it not only impacted football this year, but the havoc it will cause with the cap next season. Impact players are going to be out there and available.

This soap opera all started from a source listed as, Russ’s camp. To me, that means agent which points to money.

Hopefully, this can all be worked out and we can move forward. However, if Russ wants out, we need to try to accommodate him. Next year would be better than this year for the franchise if it comes to that.

 

[MesquiteHawk]

I do not say this lightly as I have been a Seahawks fan since 1983, but if they keep Pete over Russ, I don’t know if I will still be a fan. It has always been about the team for me and not about who fills the uniform. I rooted for the replacements.

Letting the best QB in franchise history go because he wants to win with offense might push me over the edge. I say might because I’m not positive and I don’t make threats. I just don’t know if I could watch anymore.

I think Pete is great, but I could live without him and still be a fan.

 

[HawkinNY]

Orange,

If the issue is Carroll and the cost is Wilson...wouldn't it be easier just to cater to Wilson's whims?

You want to trade away a HOF QB IN HIS PRIME in order to make the 98 year old head coach (who is one LifeAlert alarm from not being on the Seahawks anyway) happy?

That makes no sense.

Unless you are shooting to get the stadium naming rights sponsored by HoverRound, the choice between Pete and Wilson ALWAYS has to be Wilson.

It always works out when teams choose the QB over the coaching staff and front office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TwistedHusky]

Maybe you should talk to Green Bay about that.

Picking Rodgers over McCarthy was an easy choice.

Imagine if your coach is an aging has-been that really hasn't been effective in the playoffs since his SB loss, consistently is outcoached, unable to pick effective assistants, and the only thing that keeps him from being a 5 win team is his HOF QB.

It is probably an easier choice than GB had to make then. Especially when you consider a top 3 QB is going to attract the better coaching replacements.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Maybe you should talk to Green Bay about that.

Picking Rodgers over McCarthy was an easy choice.

Imagine if your coach is an aging has-been that really hasn't been effective in the playoffs since his SB loss, consistently is outcoached, unable to pick effective assistants, and the only thing that keeps him from being a 5 win team is his HOF QB.

It is probably an easier choice than GB had to make then. Especially when you consider a top 3 QB is going to attract the better coaching replacements.

The Seahawks organization has shown it's hand by extending Pete/John. The team's ownership situation is an oddly unique one. It appears by Jody's actions, that she has committed to those 2 threw whatever transition there may be in the next few years. You can argue against it all you want, but that is the reality. I think most people would choose the franchise QB over the old coach IF IT WERE AN OPTION. It appears not to be. So you have to evaluate the situation through that lens or you're just beating your head against a brick wall.

Under that assumption, if Russell wants out, you maximize the return for him moving on. Simple as that. If you think he's blustering and you can come to a reasonably achievable accord, you do that now and re-evaluate him and his contract in a year or 2 depending on how things go on the field.

This thread is about me thinking he really does want out if he doesn't get his way. Hard to tell what getting his way means in that scenario. Does it mean going after a name at OL? Does it mean Pete completely relents or leaves? Who knows.

I'm not as confident in Russell's ability to be consistently great to good throughout a season as he and most other's here do. That's just how I see him. It doesn't mean I don't think he's the best option for this team for the foreseeable future either.

What if the FO goes out and signs 2 legit consensus FA at LG/C and Russell's game looks the same? His sack numbers don't change. His level of consistency from start to end of season doesn't change? What then?

 

[FresnoHawk52]

Orange,

If the issue is Carroll and the cost is Wilson...wouldn't it be easier just to cater to Wilson's whims?

You want to trade away a HOF QB IN HIS PRIME in order to make the 98 year old head coach (who is one LifeAlert alarm from not being on the Seahawks anyway) happy?

That makes no sense.

Unless you are shooting to get the stadium naming rights sponsored by HoverRound, the choice between Pete and Wilson ALWAYS has to be Wilson.

Had to opine Orange. Your making a lot of assumptions! Is every QB that wins a SuperBowl a HOFer? I don’t know the answer to that question but If the answer is no why is RW a HOF QB? Your assuming Pete is the reason RW wants to leave Seattle. Could RW want out of Seattle to get in an easy division like Brady & Manning were in?

 

[hgwellz12]

Maybe you should talk to Green Bay about that.

Picking Rodgers over McCarthy was an easy choice.

Imagine if your coach is an aging has-been that really hasn't been effective in the playoffs since his SB loss, consistently is outcoached, unable to pick effective assistants, and the only thing that keeps him from being a 5 win team is his HOF QB.

It is probably an easier choice than GB had to make then. Especially when you consider a top 3 QB is going to attract the better coaching replacements.

The Seahawks organization has shown it's hand by extending Pete/John. The team's ownership situation is an oddly unique one. It appears by Jody's actions, that she has committed to those 2 threw whatever transition there may be in the next few years. You can argue against it all you want, but that is the reality. I think most people would choose the franchise QB over the old coach IF IT WERE AN OPTION. It appears not to be. So you have to evaluate the situation through that lens or you're just beating your head against a brick wall.

Under that assumption, if Russell wants out, you maximize the return for him moving on. Simple as that. If you think he's blustering and you can come to a reasonably achievable accord, you do that now and re-evaluate him and his contract in a year or 2 depending on how things go on the field.

This thread is about me thinking he really does want out if he doesn't get his way. Hard to tell what getting his way means in that scenario. Does it mean going after a name at OL? Does it mean Pete completely relents or leaves? Who knows.

I'm not as confident in Russell's ability to be consistently great to good throughout a season as he and most other's here do. That's just how I see him. It doesn't mean I don't think he's the best option for this team for the foreseeable future either.

What if the FO goes out and signs 2 legit consensus FA at LG/C and Russell's game looks the same? His sack numbers don't change. His level of consistency from start to end of season doesn't change? What then?

Well then at least they TRIED, and you maneuver accordingly. Key word being TRIED, obviously. Which is, imo, pretty much all Russ is asking. This whole "trotting out a patchwork oline & crossing your fingers with the prayer that your highest paid, FACE OF THE FRANCHISE, Superstar QB continues to defy all logic and convention by not getting hurt" is LITERAL insanity. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is so difficult to understand.

As for the notion that his linemen find what RW said so offensive that they won't play their role to the best of their abilities, well, that pretty much says all one needs to know about them if that's truly how they operate. Game tape doesn't just show how the skill positions preform. THEY, too, have future contracts to negotiate. And if they are petty enough to fukc off their paper and legacies like that then they need to be gone yesterday.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It won't matter what Pete wants.

Wilson now knows that what he wants matters more.

And if he does not get what he wants here?

He will get it elsewhere.

Because a #3 QB in the NFL and HOF quality QB matters more than a washed-up borderline useless head coach.

Wilson will get what he wants and we will either benefit from it or we will watch another team benefit from it.

Teams that leverage their great QBs get to win. Teams that do what we do? Get to have a nice regular season and be irrelevant in the playoffs. Wilson is tired of being irrelevant. And he is tired of Pete being the reason for it.

Pete either gets in line, gets out of the way, or watches Wilson succeed somewhere else.