After Taking it all in

[rjdriver]

Yeah, I can't wait to get back to the pre-Russ era of 30+ years mostly ranging from bottom feeding to mediocrity and not having a franchise QB. What's not to be excited about?

Finally, some clarity on .NET.

I for one am not ready to go back to the decades of perpetual mediocrity and being an after thought in the NFL.

I understand this take and I think we all know how important Russell has been for this franchise and city. Yes, we very well could return to tenured irrelevance, but it's not guaranteed we do.

I mean, we played in Super Bowl 40. We then reshuffled, went to rebuild mode with a new coach and GM and were back in the playoffs five years later with a Super Bowl win 8 years later.

I don't want to lose Russell either, I just don't think doing so automatically equates to decades of cellar dwelling again. Those were Behring teams, I have more faith in JS to adapt to whatever situation we find ourselves in.

Ask yourself this...

If Russ comes back with the current roster (and even a new head coach) are we poised to be favored to win the SB? I don't think we are as close as others think (hopefully I am wrong).

Now..... just what if a team offers us a an absolute bounty we can't refuse for Russell? Let's say 4-5 firsts, some seconds or thirds and a decent player? Now let's we say a tearful goodbye to my favorite Seahawk of all time Bwags for a couple of good picks in the second or third. From there, let's say we want to focus on secondary coverage and Dline pressure and don't feel a pass rushing safety is the right fit for us, so we trade Jamal for a first rounder a couple of seconds at minimum.

I'm not saying I want this to happen, but I'm saying that I don't necessarily see this scenario equating to "decades and decades of irrelevance" with JS in charge, all these picks, decent ownership, and an eventual new coach.

But like I said, I understand where you are coming from. When the hottest chick you've ever dated wants to break up with you, you immediately think your relegated to years of Xhamster and Redtube again. You just might...but play your cards right and you just may meet someone else downstream.

 

[OrangeGravy]

It won't matter what Pete wants.

Wilson now knows that what he wants matters more.

And if he does not get what he wants here?

He will get it elsewhere.

Because a #3 QB in the NFL and HOF quality QB matters more than a washed-up borderline useless head coach.

Wilson will get what he wants and we will either benefit from it or we will watch another team benefit from it.

Teams that leverage their great QBs get to win. Teams that do what we do? Get to have a nice regular season and be irrelevant in the playoffs. Wilson is tired of being irrelevant. And he is tired of Pete being the reason for it.

Pete either gets in line, gets out of the way, or watches Wilson succeed somewhere else.

Teams that leverage their great QBs get to win

Which teams have leveraged their great QBs and won more than Seattle outside of New England and Brady? Brady is the only great QB currently playing that has more than 1 SB ring. Mahomes just got slapped down in his bid for 2. Aaron is still toiling away. Brees is giving up his futile journey to number 2. Where's all this leveraging of great QBs happening?

 

[Tinamedina]

“Pro Football Focus counts 14 of Wilson’s 47 sacks being on him and not the offensive line. That’s second-most in the league. Wilson said he needs to play better, but he can’t keep holding onto the ball as long he does.”

Per Clayton article on 710

Also goes on to say that he’s likely pissed off the offensive lineman who will be back next year. And not in a good way.

RW should have dropped some money to help the Seahawks sign a new left guard. I played offensive line through college and this would make me a little less concerned about the safety of my QB.

Most of these guys play with injuries with little to no credit.

and if you allowed your qb to get hit because of pettiness the coach should suspend that OLINE man PERIOD. They dont protect Russell, NOBODY goes to the playoffs. Definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[RedAlice]

Kinda feels like Russ’s first wife and the Hawks have something in common.

 

[Torc]

Footballotusiders takes all that into account when they do their oline rankings, guess what Seattle was ranked bottom 5.

Also guess what its not just Wilson even the 2 years before Wilson our oline ranked bottom 5 with 2 other QBs including Hass.

Pro Football focus ranked the Seahawks line at 28 at the beginning of 2020, and 14th at the end of the season. For pass blocking specifically they were at 16. ESPN ranked the Seahawks line at #9 in pass block win rate. They spent a 2nd round pick on Pocic in 2019, a third rounder on Lewis (who was very highly regarded as a rookie) in 2020. They traded several picks for Brown and spent some money on him. They signed two free agents (iupati and shell) in the past couple of years. The notion that they're still populating the line with converted defensive linemen and other experiments is no longer the case.

The front office has clearly put both dollars and draft capital into some improvements on the offensive line over the past couple of years. Whether those were the right players or not may be arguable. Whether they've emphasized it enough in the draft is also debatable. But in the past two years they've gone from one of the worst lines in the NFL to average. They certainly need more improvement.....but I think this was the wrong group of guys for Russ to throw under the bus.

 

[rjdriver]

Kinda feels like Russ’s first wife and the Hawks have something in common.

Besides both being interested in Tate?

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Didn't want to start yet another new thread so just picked one to add this. Pretty good timeline of how this story took off.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/293 ... spite-buzz

 

[FresnoHawk52]

Josina Anderson is worthless! Seahawks put the ball in RW court. For a trade to happen RW must approve it, there’s no way Seattle is going to be first to put the cards on the table, RW must request a trade & name teams then Seattle can respond accordingly!
RW is delusional he’s been the highest paid player in the NFL using up a large amount of cap space on a team with a conservative GM. If Pete was as bad as RW thinks Schneider wouldn’t have extended his contract, furthermore Seattle’s Executive Management wouldn’t have extended Pete.

 

[jammerhawk]

Bingo Fresno!

Last season with all the complications from COVID the team was the only team in the NFL with zero true positive tests. That reality speaks to good management. The team won their division going 12-4. A totally terrible D was transformed to pretty good and over the terrible period the team went 5-0 with Russell cooking in games where the winner was the last team to have the ball. It was clear to most that winning with heroics was unsustainable. Changes were made and the team wound up with that 12-4 record. A great part of the team’s success can be attributed to good coaching.

Frankly though the cracks were showing as opponents had figured out our O. There was little nuance to it and little change over the last half of the season. Was this just Pete ball as some would claim or a frustrating inability in the former OC to make fluid adjustments or be creative width nuances in the O? Wilson certainly looked different and was unable to cook missing many clear reads, and becoming quite predictable in his escape moves made necessary by the porous OLine that was nicked up. It was apparent to many the team needed a better C and that the LG was ready to be retired. As usual the RBs were nicked up again as the scheme from the former OC uses them up with the 3-4 yards and a cloud of dust running game.

Is this because of Pete? Is this because of Wilson? Is this because of the OLine? Is this because of the weak D early? Is this because of the OC being unable to create different looks and nuanced schemes? Injuries to RB, and other position groups? To me there is lots of blame, if you need to think that way, to go around.

Now unfortunately we have had Wilson see the bright lights of Paris with the MVP circus, and it will be hard to keep him on the farm now he’s seen them. Thing is Russ cooking and exposing the D was unsustainable and got figured out. It was indeed time for a change. However, make no mistake if the D had played half a well as it did late earlier in the season RW might have been more sustainable and the team might have gone a great further but still would have been figured out or broken down. It was a team that could have done more but likely wouldn’t have.

Wilson is self interested yet sees that he could have the bright lights in the right situation, trouble is his contract puts limits upon what the team can do, he wants things his way however. Pete has recognized there was a need for change and made a significant change yet somehow he’s the devil for wanting to be in charge when he is in charge

 

[toffee]

Bingo Fresno!

Last season with all the complications from COVID the team was the only team in the NFL with zero true positive tests. That reality speaks to good management. The team won their division going 12-4. A totally terrible D was transformed to pretty good and over the terrible period the team went 5-0 with Russell cooking in games where the winner was the last team to have the ball. It was clear to most that winning with heroics was unsustainable. Changes were made and the team wound up with that 12-4 record. A great part of the team’s success can be attributed to good coaching.

Frankly though the cracks were showing as opponents had figured out our O. There was little nuance to it and little change over the last half of the season. Was this just Pete ball as some would claim or a frustrating inability in the former OC to make fluid adjustments or be creative width nuances in the O? Wilson certainly looked different and was unable to cook missing many clear reads, and becoming quite predictable in his escape moves made necessary by the porous OLine that was nicked up. It was apparent to many the team needed a better C and that the LG was ready to be retired. As usual the RBs were nicked up again as the scheme from the former OC uses them up with the 3-4 yards and a cloud of dust running game.

Is this because of Pete? Is this because of Wilson? Is this because of the OLine? Is this because of the weak D early? Is this because of the OC being unable to create different looks and nuanced schemes? Injuries to RB, and other position groups? To me there is lots of blame, if you need to think that way, to go around.

Now unfortunately we have had Wilson see the bright lights of Paris with the MVP circus, and it will be hard to keep him on the farm now he’s seen them. Thing is Russ cooking and exposing the D was unsustainable and got figured out. It was indeed time for a change. However, make no mistake if the D had played half a well as it did late earlier in the season RW might have been more sustainable and the team might have gone a great further but still would have been figured out or broken down. It was a team that could have done more but likely wouldn’t have.

Wilson is self interested yet sees that he could have the bright lights in the right situation, trouble is his contract puts limits upon what the team can do, he wants things his way however. Pete has recognized there was a need for change and made a significant change yet somehow he’s the devil for wanting to be in charge when he is in charge

This

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete is in charge. Not 'the devil'.

Just outdated. Near worthless. And more of a drag on this organization than a benefit.

A gameday liability...but not the devil.

When you have a highly ranked roster but consistently fail to achieve anything outside of the regular season with it?

It is your fault if you are in charge. Pete is in charge. This is his fault.

 

[jammerhawk]

Pete is in charge. Not 'the devil'.

Just outdated. Near worthless. And more of a drag on this organization than a benefit.

A gameday liability...but not the devil.

When you have a highly ranked roster but consistently fail to achieve anything outside of the regular season with it?

It is your fault if you are in charge. Pete is in charge. This is his fault.

RIIIGHT!!!

Not the devil, just in charge, outdated, and near worthless, more of drag on the organization than a benefit

. Opinions vary.

12-4 last season, won the NFC-W, turned around an understaffed D, tried to get the O to protect the D, but was unable to get his OC to be creative and change up to allow the O to work. Lots of smart football folk would disagree Pete is a liability, outdated, and a drag on the Seahawks organization (edit: game day drag). Yes Pete is in charge of winning program and has made some changes recently and time alone will tell if the changes are a success. We disagree about Pete, and I'm not in denial, but the continued denigration of Peteis not factually supported with the team's results. Wilson Like Rodgers has won 1 SB yet Rodgers is deified as the MVP and Wilson is seemingly being held back by Pete. Pete does a lot of things differently and some folks chaff at what may seem to be dumb challenges or time outs but he works the games to help his team. Rodgers wasn't held back this season and still never got past the conference final. The Hawks were eliminated in the WC game and that's all Pete's fault? Seems like agenda talk to me. Pete hasn't ducked and has made some changes and more appear both to needed and essential.

One thing for sure Twisted you are consistently a hater, as far a Pete is concerned. It's ike an agenda that goes on and on. Believe what you wish as I certainly won't be able to change your mind.

This thread is about Wilson's agenda and not about and it without a doubt is likely based upon the reality the team wants Wilson to redo his deal to free some cap as his deal is limiting the team's ability to get "star players" as part of the supporting cast for Wilson. Wilson wants a quid pro quo, some control of personnel and agenda. He won't get all he wants because he's a bit out of his lane, but he will get help. The public negotiation which appears to be the result of that effort by the team to free up cap is the root of this situation which may or may not resolve happily.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Jammer,

You can call me a lot of things. A hater of Carroll is not one of them.

Carroll frustrates me because he is squandering Wilson. At least to this viewpoint. And yes, I am very angry at him for taking advantage of Jody to consolidate his power while letting it get to this point with Wilson.

He should KNOW that Wilson matters more than he does right now.

Yes, Carroll deserved the benefit of the doubt for delivering a SuperBowl.

But we have a top QB, assured HOF. How long does this benefit last?

Does Pete get a pass every year, even though every year is less Wilson we have to work with ?

Because he had several passes already...

Earlier, considering the issue with Jody, no matter the frustration - my argument was we had to keep Pete. Because the chance our ownership would push to hire a tremendous coach would be low. You had to keep Carroll. But, if Wilson does not want him, there is no future with Carroll. There MIGHT be one with Wilson. (Understanding that is only a maybe. But still better than assured failure with Carroll)

In terms of Carroll though:
It is clear he is a good guy. He is a person that cares about the players and likely people not even on the field. He is relentlessly positive and (for a while) people will run through walls for him. Everyone loves him as a person, or most do.

He projects to be an amazing human being.

But as a football coach he produces less with more. He is steeped in outdated worthless philosophies and gameplans. He is borderline incompetent in some areas and ridiculously lacking in others. He hires friends and family then refuses to hold them accountable. He struggles at even basic coaching 101 things and no longer delivers the defenses that made up for those shortcomings. Great human being. Garbage HC without his LOB.

And it wouldn't matter if he was the 2nd coming of Paul Brown - Wilson does not want him and he is too old to be around for any kind of rebuild without Wilson. He isn't the kind of coach that can use Wilson to the best of his ability. Wilson is our best asset and resource - so why bother with Carroll then?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nobody is doubting that Pete has been a hell of a coach. But, there are numerous reasons that a change would benefit Russ AND this team. Let's be real here, he for some reason has eventually rubbed players wrong over the years. The message gets stale. His outdated style and doing it "his way" isn't working in the playoffs. His lack of willingness to adjust in game, along with horrific time managent……..enough is enough. Yet, we know he isn't going anywhere.
He has held back not only Russ but the team as a whole when it matters, in the playoffs. Again, 6 years, 3 playoff wins. That just plain isn't good enough. I appreciate the great regular seasons, the title, the back to back Super Bowl trips, all of it. However, his stubborn nature has long since ran it's course.
I like Pete, great guy and motivator. But, he lost me after his comments in yet another 1st round loss.
Flat out said he was ok punting on 4th and 1. Down 10, to the best defense in football. With less than 8 minutes left???? That's just inexcusable imo.
I just don't remember even CLOSE to the brushback towards Sherm, Earl, Doug and Bennett who were all blasting Pete and the front office. And Kam was holding out.
I'm likely in the minority, and I'm used to it. But, I'm glad he finally spoke up. And the way people make it sound like it was some horrific ordeal is laughable. Manning called out his O-Line in a post game presser. Rodgers has been complaining is entire career about coaching and front office stuff. Watson is demanding a trade.
Also, it seems to almost always get glossed over that Russ flat out mentioned that he needs to get rid of the ball quicker.
Just sayin...….

 

[John63]

Pete is in charge. Not 'the devil'.

Just outdated. Near worthless. And more of a drag on this organization than a benefit.

A gameday liability...but not the devil.

When you have a highly ranked roster but consistently fail to achieve anything outside of the regular season with it?

It is your fault if you are in charge. Pete is in charge. This is his fault.

RIIIGHT!!!

Not the devil, just in charge, outdated, and near worthless, more of drag on the organization than a benefit

. Opinions vary.

12-4 last season, won the NFC-W, turned around an understaffed D, tried to get the O to protect the D, but was unable to get his OC to be creative and change up to allow the O to work. Lots of smart football folk would disagree Pete is a liability, outdated, and a drag on the Seahawks organization (edit: game day drag). Yes Pete is in charge of winning program and has made some changes recently and time alone will tell if the changes are a success. We disagree about Pete, and I'm not in denial, but the continued denigration of Peteis not factually supported with the team's results. Wilson Like Rodgers has won 1 SB yet Rodgers is deified as the MVP and Wilson is seemingly being held back by Pete. Pete does a lot of things differently and some folks chaff at what may seem to be dumb challenges or time outs but he works the games to help his team. Rodgers wasn't held back this season and still never got past the conference final. The Hawks were eliminated in the WC game and that's all Pete's fault? Seems like agenda talk to me. Pete hasn't ducked and has made some changes and more appear both to needed and essential.

One thing for sure Twisted you are consistently a hater, as far a Pete is concerned. It's ike an agenda that goes on and on. Believe what you wish as I certainly won't be able to change your mind.

This thread is about Wilson's agenda and not about and it without a doubt is likely based upon the reality the team wants Wilson to redo his deal to free some cap as his deal is limiting the team's ability to get "star players" as part of the supporting cast for Wilson. Wilson wants a quid pro quo, some control of personnel and agenda. He won't get all he wants because he's a bit out of his lane, but he will get help. The public negotiation which appears to be the result of that effort by the team to free up cap is the root of this situation which may or may not resolve happily.

Your proof of this "This thread is about Wilson's agenda and not about and it without a doubt is likely based upon the reality the team wants Wilson to redo his deal to free some cap as his deal is limiting the team's ability to get "star players" as part of the supporting cast for Wilson. "


especially since he has done it 4 times already , so proof please.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Jammer,

You can call me a lot of things. A hater of Carroll is not one of them.

Carroll frustrates me because he is squandering Wilson. At least to this viewpoint. And yes, I am very angry at him for taking advantage of Jody to consolidate his power while letting it get to this point with Wilson.

He should KNOW that Wilson matters more than he does right now.

Yes, Carroll deserved the benefit of the doubt for delivering a SuperBowl.

But we have a top QB, assured HOF. How long does this benefit last?

Does Pete get a pass every year, even though every year is less Wilson we have to work with ?

Because he had several passes already...

Earlier, considering the issue with Jody, no matter the frustration - my argument was we had to keep Pete. Because the chance our ownership would push to hire a tremendous coach would be low. You had to keep Carroll. But, if Wilson does not want him, there is no future with Carroll. There MIGHT be one with Wilson. (Understanding that is only a maybe. But still better than assured failure with Carroll)

In terms of Carroll though:
It is clear he is a good guy. He is a person that cares about the players and likely people not even on the field. He is relentlessly positive and (for a while) people will run through walls for him. Everyone loves him as a person, or most do.

He projects to be an amazing human being.

But as a football coach he produces less with more. He is steeped in outdated worthless philosophies and gameplans. He is borderline incompetent in some areas and ridiculously lacking in others. He hires friends and family then refuses to hold them accountable. He struggles at even basic coaching 101 things and no longer delivers the defenses that made up for those shortcomings. Great human being. Garbage HC without his LOB.

And it wouldn't matter if he was the 2nd coming of Paul Brown - Wilson does not want him and he is too old to be around for any kind of rebuild without Wilson. He isn't the kind of coach that can use Wilson to the best of his ability. Wilson is our best asset and resource - so why bother with Carroll then?

"Carroll frustrates me because he is squandering Wilson"
This is the only problem I have with your side or fans on this side of this Pete/Wilson issue. This statement right here is treated as fact or an absolute and is neither. It is an opinion, which is perfectly fine. Not everyone shares that opinion of this dynamic.

A lot of it seems to come from the analytics side of how offenses are viewed these days in the NFL and what the most efficient way to operate an offense is in the modern game. The evolution of the passing game might be the best way to run an offense when viewed from that angle, but that only holds true if you assume that every QB has an equal ability to execute that style of offense. QBs have different abilities and you as a coach have to evaluate those abilities and come to the approach that you think fits. You and others obviously think Russell is capable, but it appears that Pete is not entirely sold on that.

Where would you put Russell vs Brees? Where would you put Pete vs Sean Payton? Are Russ and better than those 2? One better than the other? Did Payton also squander Brees? The way I see it, if you think Pete is wasting Russell, than you have to think Payton wasted Brees. And, if you think Brees is better than Russell in their respective primes executing a pass heavy approach, what makes you think Russell's results will be any better over his career as far as playoff/SB success? I could ask the same for Rodgers. Now if you think Russell is better than both, OK, I see your point as you see it, but I would disagree.

 

[jammerhawk]

John, like you I have no proof but the issue with why has to be about money, or alternatively RW's legacy which is also all about money. He saw the bright lights of Paree and now he doesn't want to be on the farm any more. Thing is there are trade offs for his personnel wishes. I am a staunch RW fan as well as a staunch Pete fan both are not w/o warts or respective blind spots. i frankly think RW is better with Pete than w/o him.

This thread however is about Wilson's motives for stirring the pot and not about how much Pete sucks, depending upon your viewpoint. Therein I heartily disagree with the several Pete naysayers. Pete ain't perfect by a long shot but where we disagree is whether he is a good head coach and there his success argues in his favour.

What other motive could there be? Wilson is on a winning team, he is one the top paid QBs in the NFL, and he now wants some control of personnel and team direction. He is being respected in the organization and well paid In exchange for what, being traded? Playing for an organization that can surround him with offensive talent would have to come with a cost.
Every team has a salary cap.

Brady takes the reduced salary cost so he can have his guys around him, Wilson has too a few times, but really only just had his guaranteed money secured. Losing the way they did in WC game points out how bad the OLine actually was against a well schemed LA D that was able to force RW from the pocket repeatedly in the waiting arms of his spy who had figured out W's typical escape moves. This loss was damaging to Wilson's legacy in the eyes of some and a supposed indictment of Pete ball which was really weak game planning by the OC and weak OLine play. With that being recognized Wilson has a fair complaint .

That I suppose is upon Pete as the buck needs to stop somewhere but there was lots of blame to go around.

 

[aawolf]

Did anyone notice that we won the division this year and that Russell Wilson had 40 TD passes this year and 12 INTs (Rodgers 48; Brady 40; Mahomes 38, and they all played more in the playoffs)? I'm just wondering where all the doom and gloom is coming from. I watched the Wilson segment on Dan Patrick and I think he was just asking for more help on the offensive line. I get that he holds the ball too long sometimes waiting for things to open up, but he also gets sacked because of whiffs on the offensive line all the time. I think we will be fine and Wilson is not going anywhere. I'm glad Pete and JS have reached out to him and hopefully, he will have some say on presonel moving forward since he's earned it.

 

[John63]

Like you I have none but the issue is about money or alternatively RW's legacy which is also all about money.

The thread however is about Wilson's motives for stirring the pot and not about how much Pete sucks, depending upon your viewpoint.

What other motive could there be? Wilson is on a winning team, he is one the top paid QBs in the NFL, and he now wants some control of personnel and team direction. In exchange for what, being traded? Playing for an organization that can surround him with offensive talent would have to come with a cost.

Wilson is on a winning team that can't get beyond the 1st round. If you listen he said it he wants to get back to the SB. He did not say he wants control he wants a say. This are 2 different things. Example

Control we are getting Ertz

Say Hey Wilson we are thinking about getting Ertz what do you think? OR Hey PC here are a few ideas for TE we should look at.

Those are 2 different things.

 

[John63]

Did anyone notice that we won the division this year and that Russell Wilson had 40 TD passes this year and 12 INTs (Rodgers 48; Brady 40; Mahomes 38, and they all played more in the playoffs)? I'm just wondering where all the doom and gloom is coming from. I watched the Wilson segment on Dan Patrick and I think he was just asking for more help on the offensive line. I get that he holds the ball too long sometimes waiting for things to open up, but he also gets sacked because of whiffs on the offensive line all the time. I think we will be fine and Wilson is not going anywhere. I'm glad Pete and JS have reached out to him and hopefully, he will have some say on presonel moving forward since he's earned it.

He actually did not say the oline he said he is tired of getting hit. Well that cold be at the Oline for not blocking, could be at WR for not getting open, could be on RB for not blocking, could be on PC for the system and play call, and of course he also said he needs to play better.