Carroll Out As Head Coach

[RiverDog]

No doubt. Not like we heard from her much. Nice to see she cares, clearly.

That plus she must be getting some sound advice.

The other thing that they had to have taken into account was that the natives were getting very restless. This forum was not alone in our consensus that Pete was past his expiration date.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'll always appreciate what he meant to Seattle sports and this team. But, it has been time for a while now.
And 14 years is a hell of a long run for any coach. Time for some New.

 

[ccla]

PC is only out as HC . He's still will be in place in an ' advisory ' position . That could mean more than what we assume it means . He might be instrumental in choosing the new HC or behind the scenes in the upcoming draft . He still has considerable juice in the Hawk organization . imo

I see it differently, i think its just a move to save face. He will have no power.
John will do fine, and hopefully no more crazy trades.

 

[Hawknight]

I see it differently, i think its just a move to save face. He will have no power.
John will do fine, and hopefully no more crazy trades.

During Pete's presser yesterday, when he had mentioned that the organization wanted to keep him on, I don't think he was a 100% in on that. I got the feeling, he needed some time to think about his future plans and everything was up in the air. I think Pete was still in shock himself perhaps when he spoke to the public. I wouldn't be surprised if he stepped away. IF he did stay as an advisor, most likely short term. Pete may be in his 70's, but heck that's nothing now a days and Pete's more of kid at heart than anyone I know. There's a fire in him that he's not done and will perhaps look for some other great opportunity, whether that's coaching remains to be seen.

 

[renofox]

I probably would have given him another year, but emphasize that the defense has enough talent to be top half, and if you want to keep Hurt, it likely won't end well. But I get it. 25-25 or whatever since 2021. That year and this year were underachievements, and even the '20 season was kind of a letdown.

Something along these lines was probably done at the end of the 2021 season. Most likely at that time John and Jody were on the same page and told PC something like:


There are two things holding back this team. 1) The defense is bottom-feeder and must be improved. KNJ is not cutting it so you need to find a new DC to turn this around, and 2) RW is not providing the necessary production. We can't give him a $50M/yr contract, but we can get massive trade capital to help rebuild the defense.

The #1 priority for this team is to show substantial improvement on defense over the next few years. With the expected haul of picks and the freed up cap money, anything other than such improvement will be considered an intolerable failure.


In business-speak, the meaning is clear. Fix the defense or you're outta here. When PC did his Monday show and spoke repeatedly about his desire to stay, he already knew he had failed and that there was a high probability he was going to be relegated. When he was talking about still wanting to coach at his post-dismissal press conference, he was just letting all the NFL owners that he was available for hire.

Professionals like Jody don't just fire out of the blue. With PC's position, stature, and respect he was given plenty of notice of the expectations. He failed to meet them.

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

Something along these lines was probably done at the end of the 2021 season. Most likely at that time John and Jody were on the same page and told PC something like:


There are two things holding back this team. 1) The defense is bottom-feeder and must be improved. KNJ is not cutting it so you need to find a new DC to turn this around, and 2) RW is not providing the necessary production. We can't give him a $50M/yr contract, but we can get massive trade capital to help rebuild the defense.

The #1 priority for this team is to show substantial improvement on defense over the next few years. With the expected haul of picks and the freed up cap money, anything other than such improvement will be considered an intolerable failure.


In business-speak, the meaning is clear. Fix the defense or you're outta here. When PC did his Monday show and spoke repeatedly about his desire to stay, he already knew he had failed and that there was a high probability he was going to be relegated. When he was talking about still wanting to coach at his post-dismissal press conference, he was just letting all the NFL owners that he was available for hire.

Professionals like Jody don't just fire out of the blue. With PC's position, stature, and respect he was given plenty of notice of the expectations. He failed to meet them.

Yeah, I vaguely remember that two years ago. He didn't fix it, so I don't really have an issue with the move. Also, the team didn't improve at all throughout the year. It seemed like it even regressed some. That's another red flag. Also, his uber positivity works for a while, but it also has a downside. You saw it at the end of the LOB era in 2017. He had lost control of the team. Let's face it, he lets those guys get away with too much, and penalties have always been an issue. If you're 12-4, people let it slide, but not when you're mediocre three straight seasons.

 

[renofox]

There were a lot of people - me included - that warned, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I would love to see a repeat of what happened after Holmgren. If an ineffective coach is hired then fired and the replacement comes in and wins a Super Bowl a few years later? Awesomeness. If we can do it without a bad coach in the middle? Even better.

People are acting like the Seahawks would be stuck with a bad hire who doesn't perform. Nope. Next Man Up.

Odds say it will take ~3 tries to find the next good coach. If it does, it does. If it takes more tries, it takes more tries. Fear of failure is one of the biggest reasons the vast majority of people live their lives content with mediocrity. Boldness and risk taking is a part the most common method to succeed at the highest levels.

I want the Seahawks to at least start winning some Divisional Playoff games here and there. I'm happy that Jody is willing to risk some stinker seasons to try and elevate the team to that level, as an expected minimum. Eventually, one of those good seasons will turn into another Lombardi.

 

[renofox]

JS might be in over his head . He relied heavily on PC ; and probably still will .

JS has been working in NFL front offices for over 30 years. He comes across as sharp and intelligent. There is no evidence that JS is either in over his head or incompetent.

Just as people doubted Jody, it is natural that people may now be doubting John.

I've found that if you assume a long-tenured executive is competent at his job and give him the benefit of the doubt, you're going to be right much more often than you are wrong.

At this point, I'll assume JS is ready and able to take control and guide the Seahawks to a bright future.

 

[AROS]

Absolutely agree. John Schneider is one of the best GM’s in the league. I’m quite sure he’s perfectly able of doing his job without Pete there to hold his hand. I’m baffled why some fans worry if John can handle it on his own. There’s years of evidence that proves he’s more than capable.

 

[hoxrox]

JS has been working in NFL front offices for over 30 years. He comes across as sharp and intelligent. There is no evidence that JS is either in over his head or incompetent.

Just as people doubted Jody, it is natural that people may now be doubting John.

I've found that if you assume a long-tenured executive is competent at his job and give him the benefit of the doubt, you're going to be right much more often than you are wrong.

At this point, I'll assume JS is ready and able to take control and guide the Seahawks to a bright future.

The reservation with John, for me, is his negotiation skills - whether that is maximizing trade value (JA trade for example) or negotiating player contracts (many overpaid contracts for underperforming players).

This is his wheelhouse - not Pete's.

We don't always get the best return on investment.

 

[renofox]

The reservation with John, for me, is his negotiation skills - whether that is maximizing trade value (JA trade for example) or negotiating player contracts (many overpaid contracts for underperforming players).

This is his wheelhouse - not Pete's.

We don't always get the best return on investment.

We will find out over the next few years if the trades/contracts that many here decried as idiotic at the time they happened, and then turned out to be even worse than was thought, were on PC or on JS.

I hope we see no more Harvins, Ungers, Adams, etc. I also want to see better draft performance - along the lines of the last two. Good drafts and no more obviously shitty trades/contracts - that would be pretty convincing evidence that JS was yielding to PC.

If JS can avoid the huge mistakes in the big deals and keep the improved drafts coming, it'll help the Seahawks get where they should be.

 

[Fade]

During Pete's presser yesterday, when he had mentioned that the organization wanted to keep him on, I don't think he was a 100% in on that. I got the feeling, he needed some time to think about his future plans and everything was up in the air. I think Pete was still in shock himself perhaps when he spoke to the public. I wouldn't be surprised if he stepped away. IF he did stay as an advisor, most likely short term. Pete may be in his 70's, but heck that's nothing now a days and Pete's more of kid at heart than anyone I know. There's a fire in him that he's not done and will perhaps look for some other great opportunity, whether that's coaching remains to be seen.

Pete still wants to coach. He said it after the season, he said it in his final presser, he told it to his players last night who got together with him, which included Russ and Sherm.

Pete also said he didn't know what his advisor role meant when he was asked. Which I believe he has little interest in doing.

Pete was fired in a politically correct way. If he gets an opportunity to coach again, he will take it.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

That’s a strange way to look at it and it sounds like you will be rooting for it to happen that way. No one is “dumb” for wanting change and no one was dumb for wanting to run it back one more year with Pete. This is vs them thinking that’s so common today is wild to me

Like u rooting for russ vs pete? . Just stop. I root for seahawks. Simple as that. I will root for my next HC too. You wanted Pete gone for Russ. You had this vs them because of being behind Russ.

Honestly, you have no room to even say what you just said but its a free world. Carry on.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Nobody has said the next coach would be better. Only that it was time to start taking chances or live with perpetual mediocrity.

Oh they did and have. You must not be on X at all or reddit.

 

[JustTheTip]

Oh they did and have. You must not be on X at all or reddit.

Since your post was here and not on one of those platforms I only applied it to this community.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I wouldn't rule out Pete coaching somewhere else. There's 72, and there's Pete Carroll 72. Just sayin.

 

[flv2]

Carroll might get a GM offer. I don't see any NFL team offering Carroll a HC job, and I doubt he'd consider a DC job. I'm not sure he'd get a DC offer either. Interviews might even be thin on the ground. If he wants to be a HC the UFL will be hiring. If he can't get an NFL coaching job in the next 4 weeks then that might be his best way back into the NFL for 2025.

 

[renofox]

Carroll might get a GM offer. I don't see any NFL team offering Carroll a HC job, and I doubt he'd consider a DC job. I'm not sure he'd get a DC offer either. Interviews might even be thin on the ground. If he wants to be a HC the UFL will be hiring. If he can't get an NFL coaching job in the next 4 weeks then that might be his best way back into the NFL for 2025.

I think you overrate the acumen of many owners and GMs. As evidence i present:

The worst NFL coaching tenures of all time

As franchises prepare wish lists for their next hires, numerous cautionary tales exist. Here are 25 of the worst head-coaching tenures since the 1970 merger.

www.yardbarker.com

p.s. Is anybody having problems with the buttons at the top of the reply window? They quit working on my phone a few days ago. I miss my emojis!

 

[JustTheTip]

I think you overrate the acumen of many owners and GMs. As evidence i present:

The worst NFL coaching tenures of all time

As franchises prepare wish lists for their next hires, numerous cautionary tales exist. Here are 25 of the worst head-coaching tenures since the 1970 merger.

www.yardbarker.com

p.s. Is anybody having problems with the buttons at the top of the reply window? They quit working on my phone a few days ago. I miss my emojis!

They work on Edge but not DuckDuckGo browser on my android phone.

 

[Ozzy]

Like u rooting for russ vs pete? . Just stop. I root for seahawks. Simple as that. I will root for my next HC too. You wanted Pete gone for Russ. You had this vs them because of being behind Russ.

Honestly, you have no room to even say what you just said but its a free world. Carry on.

I never once rooted for Seattle to fail. Can you show me where I wanted Seattle to fail? This comes off as weird and goofy. Yeah I wanted Pete to stay in what world does that equate to what you’re implying. Come on man.