Does Shaun Alexander deserve to be in the HOF?

[hawkfan68]

Those who say that SA shouldn't be in the HOF, do you believe Chris Johnson should be in it?

Their stats are nearly identical. I wouldn't say Johnson was a "tough runner" either. Johnson played more seasons that SA but has near equal career stats to him.

SA career stats - https://www.nfl.com/players/shaun-alexander/stats/career
CJ career stats - https://www.nfl.com/players/chris-johnson/stats/career

Next, SA racked up a 1000+ yards from 2000-2006. How is it he was terrible between the 20s? Please explain. I saw him take a 88 yard TD to the house against the Cards. Seems like he did fine between 20s then. He had 17 runs in his career of 40+ yards. Just because he didn't run through people like a Lynch doesn't mean he wasn't effective between 20s. He was tremendously productive back.

 

[RolandDeschain]

No, he did not block on passing downs, was not a receiving back in a WCO, ran soft a lot between the 20's. While he was hurt the last year maybe 2 he never showed to be much of a punishing runner for his size, he was not a guy you could really count on to get a short yardage first down, but could for a touchdown, that should tell you about his level of intensity.

Give me Lynch, Watters, Warner, Doornink, as guys you could count on for maximum effort every down and more complete backs.

One of these players is Shaun and the other is Marshawn.

Player A converted 232 out of 422 career short yardage attempts. 55% conversion rate (1-3yds)
Player B converted 228 out of 362 career short yardage attempts. 63% conversion rate

Player A averaged 4.57 yards between the 20's
Player B averaged 4.53 yards between the 20's

One of those players also had a much better offensive line for many years. You just like ignoring that and comparing raw stats blindly, obviously...a very poor way to judge anything.

 

[CPHawk]

No, he did not block on passing downs, was not a receiving back in a WCO, ran soft a lot between the 20's. While he was hurt the last year maybe 2 he never showed to be much of a punishing runner for his size, he was not a guy you could really count on to get a short yardage first down, but could for a touchdown, that should tell you about his level of intensity.

Give me Lynch, Watters, Warner, Doornink, as guys you could count on for maximum effort every down and more complete backs.

One of these players is Shaun and the other is Marshawn.

Player A converted 232 out of 422 career short yardage attempts. 55% conversion rate (1-3yds)
Player B converted 228 out of 362 career short yardage attempts. 63% conversion rate

Player A averaged 4.57 yards between the 20's
Player B averaged 4.53 yards between the 20's

One of those players also had a much better offensive line for many years. You just like ignoring that and comparing raw stats blindly, obviously...a very poor way to judge anything.

One player had a great left side, but in no way was that OL one of the best in NFL history like some suggest. Even look at 13, Unger was much better than Tobek. Grey and Locklear, average starters and would be interchangeable with McQuistan and Carpenter. And Alexander still had over half his TDs to the right side. His OL was certainly NOT anywhere near what Emmitt Smith had in the 90s.

 

[fenderbender123]

Hall of "Fame". Alexander doesn't have the fame. He didn't win a Super Bowl. His highlight reel is boring. He leaned on a HOF caliber offensive line during the only years he put up good numbers. He doesn't have the longetivity argument. He just....doesn't qualify. Because it's the hall of fame and not the hall of technically good running backs.

 

[PNW]

No, he did not block on passing downs, was not a receiving back in a WCO, ran soft a lot between the 20's. While he was hurt the last year maybe 2 he never showed to be much of a punishing runner for his size, he was not a guy you could really count on to get a short yardage first down, but could for a touchdown, that should tell you about his level of intensity.

Give me Lynch, Watters, Warner, Doornink, as guys you could count on for maximum effort every down and more complete backs.

One of these players is Shaun and the other is Marshawn.

Player A converted 232 out of 422 career short yardage attempts. 55% conversion rate (1-3yds)
Player B converted 228 out of 362 career short yardage attempts. 63% conversion rate

Player A averaged 4.57 yards between the 20's
Player B averaged 4.53 yards between the 20's

One of those players also had a much better offensive line for many years. You just like ignoring that and comparing raw stats blindly, obviously...a very poor way to judge anything.

One player had a great left side, but in no way was that OL one of the best in NFL history like some suggest. Even look at 13, Unger was much better than Tobek. Grey and Locklear, average starters and would be interchangeable with McQuistan and Carpenter. And Alexander still had over half his TDs to the right side. His OL was certainly NOT anywhere near what Emmitt Smith had in the 90s.

Agreed CP, so weird how many Hawks fans hate on him still to this day. Film doesn’t lie and he was very special for those 5 years everywhere on the field, I wish we had a prime Shaun Alexander right now!!!

 

[PNW]

Hall of "Fame". Alexander doesn't have the fame. He didn't win a Super Bowl. His highlight reel is boring. He leaned on a HOF caliber offensive line during the only years he put up good numbers. He doesn't have the longetivity argument. He just....doesn't qualify. Because it's the hall of fame and not the hall of technically good running backs.

Exaggerating a bit much, “HOF caliber offensive line” lol you mean two HOFers, as stated before the others weren’t anywhere near HOF caliber

 

[hoxrox]

Remember his 5 touch down game? Those were the days, running behind #38 Mac Strong.

[youtube]51s7Aqf_llY[/youtube]



Another epic game was the one in the snow vs GB, where he ran for over 200 yards.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

Yes...
I have always been a huge SA fan, the dude gave us some great years. The label of soft has always bothered me, as pointed out above the man toted the rock in quantities we many never see again. In the 2006 season where he lost Hutch and suffered the Madden curse with a broken foot he came back and ran the ball 40 times for 200+ Vs GB. I don’t think a soft person plays football as much or as long as he did. In HS he ran for 6645 and 110 td in three varsity seasons he held most records at Alabama when he left and made a huge mark in his NFL career.....soft people don’t accomplish all that.

Just look at some of his NFL achievements

9 straight 100yd game vs divisional opponents- breaking the record set by Walter Payton
1st NFL back to have 5 consecutive seasons with 15 td
19 rushing td in just 10 games 2005- breaking a record held since 1945

My personal favorite
Broke Barry Sanders record for most consecutive games breaking a 10 yard run...31 games

Even though he wasn’t your typical pass catching RB he did have 3 season over 40 catches with a high of 59.

His final year with the Hawks he fractured his wrist sprained both knees and lost Mack as his lead blocker....and people called him soft.

There is plenty more that could be added but I will leave with this.....he left the Hawks as the greatest RB to ever play for them. Only MVP, first SB and many records he should be a legend here.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

IMO, yes. You had me at single season TD record.

 

[fenderbender123]

Hall of "Fame". Alexander doesn't have the fame. He didn't win a Super Bowl. His highlight reel is boring. He leaned on a HOF caliber offensive line during the only years he put up good numbers. He doesn't have the longetivity argument. He just....doesn't qualify. Because it's the hall of fame and not the hall of technically good running backs.

Exaggerating a bit much, “HOF caliber offensive line” lol you mean two HOFers, as stated before the others weren’t anywhere near HOF caliber

Of all the offensive line lineups, it's one of the best of all time. That's what I mean by HOF caliber offensive line. It doesn't mean every player is hof caliber.

 

[PNW]

Hall of "Fame". Alexander doesn't have the fame. He didn't win a Super Bowl. His highlight reel is boring. He leaned on a HOF caliber offensive line during the only years he put up good numbers. He doesn't have the longetivity argument. He just....doesn't qualify. Because it's the hall of fame and not the hall of technically good running backs.

Exaggerating a bit much, “HOF caliber offensive line” lol you mean two HOFers, as stated before the others weren’t anywhere near HOF caliber

Of all the offensive line lineups, it's one of the best of all time. That's what I mean by HOF caliber offensive line. It doesn't mean every player is hof caliber.

Tobeck was a pro bowl alternate once, the only HOF caliber players on the OL were #71 and #76, your comment is still exaggerated.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Tobeck was a pro bowl alternate once, the only HOF caliber players on the OL were #71 and #76, your comment is still exaggerated.

A Hall of Fame-worthy OL doesn't mean every single one of the five OL is deserving of the Hall of Fame. How many of the Cowboys 90s "Great Wall of Dallas" OL are in the Hall of Fame?

 

[fenderbender123]

Hall of "Fame". Alexander doesn't have the fame. He didn't win a Super Bowl. His highlight reel is boring. He leaned on a HOF caliber offensive line during the only years he put up good numbers. He doesn't have the longetivity argument. He just....doesn't qualify. Because it's the hall of fame and not the hall of technically good running backs.

Exaggerating a bit much, “HOF caliber offensive line” lol you mean two HOFers, as stated before the others weren’t anywhere near HOF caliber

Of all the offensive line lineups, it's one of the best of all time. That's what I mean by HOF caliber offensive line. It doesn't mean every player is hof caliber.

Tobeck was a pro bowl alternate once, the only HOF caliber players on the OL were #71 and #76, your comment is still exaggerated.

Once again....saying the entire line as a whole is one of the best of all time is not the same as saying every single individual linemen on that line is one of the best of all time.

Edit: I see Roland beat me to it. Thanks.

 

[PNW]

Tobeck was a pro bowl alternate once, the only HOF caliber players on the OL were #71 and #76, your comment is still exaggerated.

A Hall of Fame-worthy OL doesn't mean every single one of the five OL is deserving of the Hall of Fame. How many of the Cowboys 90s "Great Wall of Dallas" OL are in the Hall of Fame?

The Dallas Great Wall was overall a much better OL:
Mark Tuinei (2 pro bowls)
Erik Williams (4 pro bowl, 2 first team all pros)
Mark Stepnoski (5 pro bowls)
Kevin Gogan (3 pro bowls)
Nate Newton (6 pro bowls, 2 first team all pros)
John Gesek (Weakest link on that OL was good enough to outplay Kevin Gogan)

Tobeck, Gray and Locklear would have been backups if they even made the team.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Tobeck was a pro bowl alternate once, the only HOF caliber players on the OL were #71 and #76, your comment is still exaggerated.

A Hall of Fame-worthy OL doesn't mean every single one of the five OL is deserving of the Hall of Fame. How many of the Cowboys 90s "Great Wall of Dallas" OL are in the Hall of Fame?

The Dallas Great Wall was overall a much better OL:
Mark Tuinei (2 pro bowls)
Erik Williams (4 pro bowl, 2 first team all pros)
Mark Stepnoski (5 pro bowls)
Kevin Gogan (3 pro bowls)
Nate Newton (6 pro bowls, 2 first team all pros)
John Gesek (Weakest link on that OL was good enough to outplay Kevin Gogan)

Tobeck, Gray and Locklear would have been backups if they even made the team.

Pro Bowls are a huge popularity contest, nothing more. All Pro is a WAY more accurate measurement of ability compared to Pro Bowls. Plus, Texas is a huge and popular market; Seattle has been ignored due to being some small town in south Alaska. Since this is the main forum I will refrain from commenting on the intelligence of someone who weighs Pro Bowl counts to gauge ability. Let me also remind you that Packers center Jeff Saturday got voted to the Pro Bowl after losing his starting job for sucking: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/12/27 ... f-saturday

Don't let your love for SA blind you to objective reasoning skills on this topic.

 

[scutterhawk]

Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.

Not true for RBs. Come on.

It would be stupid NOT to try and avoid INJURIES, and yes, it is "TRUE" for RB's, ESPECIALLY for longevities sake.
Y'ain't Playin' if y'ain't stayin'.

 

[scutterhawk]

Yes. He was a great back with great vision.

He should not be punished for playing behind a great O line. He was a master at the cutback, rarely went down on first contact and led the team to our first Superbowl appearance.

Plus, he had FIVE TD's in the first HALF OF A GAME (Vikings I believe)....It was almost an automatic for a TD anytime he got into the Red Zone...Nothing wrong with NOT taking UNNECCESARY hits.
18 TD's in one Regular season.
So YES.

He actually got 27 TD’s in his MVP season along with 1880yrd and 5.1 yrds per carry. In 2004 he also got 1696yrd with 16TD’s and 4.8 yrds per carry. Also his durability his first 6 years was pretty damn good, I don’t think he missed a game. Talk about a workhorse back!!!

You are right, the number '18 ' was stuck in my head for being TD's, but in reality, it was 1,880 yards. :irishdrinkers:

 

[scutterhawk]

Remember that 2006 Monday Night game against Green Bay in the snow at Quest Field? Shaun had 40 carries for 201 yards on a broken foot. Beast mode.

God, what a wuss, he should have ran for 301 yards. :smilingalien:

 

[IndyHawk]

I didn't get to see him as much back then so if I look
at You Tube/stats thats fair right?
I noticed one thing he does great..Stiff arm,I saw him
get out of a lot tackles with that and speed.
His vision was pretty damn good too..I'm seeing a great
back and why is having a great OL held against him?
So Terrell Davis,Emmit,Franco,Thurman Thomas and Dorsett
among others in HOF get passes?
Stats are a big part of all this because if you aren't putting up
numbers what are you doing then?
He finished with 100 TD's one more than my favorite RB
Barry Sanders.
I'm stamping a big YES

 

[scutterhawk]

I think he deserves a spot. Guy was a monster RB. The most least respected Seahawk ever and its strange that people seem to forget how good he was.

I personally find it strange that plenty of fans can't acknowledge he was a soft runner except near the goal line. Not giving it your all every single down is not in the spirit of the Hall of Fame.

Oh, so I guess every RB has to be in the Earl Campbell, Pete Johnson, Lynch mold to satisfy your expectations. Sheesh, Plenty of RBs in the HoF that didnt take big hits.

EXACTLY!, there are one hell of a lot of HOF RB's that made it in because they were able to avoid injuries.
Some people right here on .NET are b*tch*ng because Carson is so often unable to play, because he seeks out contact and too often injured because of it. :34853_doh: