Fools Gold

[bmorepunk]

I enjoyed the optimism coming from the fan base to start the season, and I kept my mouth shut for the most part.

A few weeks ago a lot of people were amped up (Aros noticeably so). It was wild to me but it's fun for them so whatever, just let it roll. Now we're on the other side of that and some people feel like we're the Panthers. It does suck that the last two years we've seen so many games where this team gets stomped. That didn't used to happen. As much as people wanted rid of Wilson, he was a major reason why this team was almost always competitive in every game. We lost that magic and the other stuff that wasn't going well before he left persists. I wonder if we're actually in a mediocre period now. Many people called the later Wilson years "mediocre" which was ridiculous. This version of the team appears to fit that mold better, but we'll see how the rest of the season/next couple of years go.

I was surprised by Smith last year like most people, because I expected a year of inconsistent play. I didn't view him as a starter (nor Lock), but he played really well the first half of the season and good enough the second half. It seems like we have the normal Smith now. We're in the same spot as a lot of NFL teams: we just don't have one of the few really good to great dudes at the position. We did before (note: not saying Wilson would have carried it through the last two years, but he was really important for this team for a long time). It's not that Smith gets all the blame regarding players for the team's performance, but he has been a problem at critical times while coming through at others. This is just what most QBs do; they are inconsistent as hell.

There are bright and dark spots on both sides of the ball. Very few teams are really bad or really great. This team is not those. But they could be better than average (AKA not mediocre).

These dudes could get on a streak and win some games we don't expect them to then look way better than they do currently. Or they could go on a terrible streak. Or just be up and down game to game. Try to enjoy things game to game, it is entertainment.

 

[fenderbender123]

Don't feel too bad. I predict the Seahawks to go 20-0 every year.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Sure i've failed at a lot of things, but not for 9 straight years.

Except that they haven’t failed over the last 9 years. You say that just to justify your own negative narrative. Winning is the opposite of failure. The Seahawks have won more than they have lost. To me that is success.

They haven’t won the Super Bowl in 9 years but that doesn’t mean they have failed in that time span. If your only model of success is a Super Bowl win then I feel sorry for you. Basing feelings off of one game or series of games at the end of the season has got to be a difficult mind set to live with. All or nothing? Or let’s enjoy the season and see what it brings kind of fun? I’ll take the latter.

Here are the wins for every team the last 10 years.


There are 4 (!) teams that have won more in the last 10 years than the Seahawks. In those last 10 years, only 2 teams with more wins than the Seahawks have won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs and the Patriots.

So the Seahawks in the last decade have not only not been failures, they have actually won more games than about 80% of the league.

 

[Chukarhawk]

It feels like we have the pieces, but we are wasting talented players in a bad scheme and poor coaching. They are at best a mediocre football team that will end up being around 500, exactly what you would expect with a back up QB and not great coaching. This is a team that is incapable of putting 4 quarters of good football together. If you realize that one fact, that should give you your answer.

 

[Mad Dog]

To me it’s a bad OC and a poor defensive scheme that trots vanilla sets out time after time. When was the last time you saw a clever play by the Hawks. No innovation. No creativity. No risk.

 

[OrangeGravy]

It feels like we have the pieces, but we are wasting talented players in a bad scheme and poor coaching. They are at best a mediocre football team that will end up being around 500, exactly what you would expect with a back up QB and not great coaching. This is a team that is incapable of putting 4 quarters of good football together. If you realize that one fact, that should give you your answer.

We have some pieces, but nowhere near enough. Enough to make the playoffs if everything goes right. Everything

 

[nanomoz]

Why was I so convinced we would win 11 games this year? I feel like a chump. Talk about Paper Tigers. I mean, I’m not so distraught to not realize we are a young and talented team but man, I didn’t see us losing games like the ones we have.

Is it really as bad as some of us are pontificating? Did we suddenly forget how to win?

6-5 is so 1997.

I need to quantify this. Are the 2023 Seattle Seahawks really just not a good team?

No smart ass responses. Be real. Tell me your honest thoughts.

They're not very good. And their stated identity gets lost somewhere between the front office and the product on the field.

I rewatched a bunch of the Rams game, because, apparently, I'm a masochist. They had the lead the whole fugging game and still threw the ball twice as much as they ran it. Right after using a second round draft pick on exactly the sort of running back you need to close out games.

It was so incredibly incompetent.

 

[knownone]

What makes the Seahawks polarizing is where they rank amongst the rest of the league. Choose your analytics; they're balancing somewhere in the middle of the teeter-totter. And the erratic performance on the field each week makes it unclear which direction—good or bad—they will eventually wind up. So it's easy to look at them and come to radically different conclusions about where the team belongs in the pecking order.

With that said, you can't ask for a better situation for this team to prove they belong. Waldron, Hurt, Pete, Geno, pick your scapegoat. If they find a way to bounce back and make the playoffs—with the cards stacked against them—they'll deserve credit. I firmly believe in Bill Parcell's adage, "You are what your record says you are." And look, back-to-back winning seasons and playoff appearances make it difficult for the haters to hate. So, the floor is theirs to prove those haters wrong—to prove they belong.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Except that they haven’t failed over the last 9 years. You say that just to justify your own negative narrative. Winning is the opposite of failure. The Seahawks have won more than they have lost. To me that is success.

They haven’t won the Super Bowl in 9 years but that doesn’t mean they have failed in that time span. If your only model of success is a Super Bowl win then I feel sorry for you. Basing feelings off of one game or series of games at the end of the season has got to be a difficult mind set to live with. All or nothing? Or let’s enjoy the season and see what it brings kind of fun? I’ll take the latter.

Here are the wins for every team the last 10 years.


There are 4 (!) teams that have won more in the last 10 years than the Seahawks. In those last 10 years, only 2 teams with more wins than the Seahawks have won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs and the Patriots.

So the Seahawks in the last decade have not only not been failures, they have actually won more games than about 80% of the league.



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You base success on the regular season which is meaningless when looking at the big prize. As i've said a bazillion times, it doesn't need to be the Super Bowl, but at least show me some progress. The Chiefs, Patriots, and Packers at least get past the 2nd round at points and reach the Championship games at times (Mike Tomlin is the AFC's Pete Carroll,,,,sorry Steelers). Seattles post season record in the past 8 years has been abysmal. They have been nothing more than pretenders in that time span. So just having winning records without a hope of post season advancement year after year does not define success to me.

 

[RiverDog]

It does suck that the last two years we've seen so many games where this team gets stomped. That didn't used to happen.

During the LOB years, we set a record for most consecutive games of not losing my more than 7 points, at least 46 in a row near as I can tell, which represents nearly 3 years. Boy, are those days long gone!

 

[bigskydoc]

Losing sucks, but taking my daughter to the games more than makes up for it! I wish they would win enough to host a playoff game, or better yet an NFCCG, so I could experience that with her! The two, back to back, NFCCGs were truly some of the highlights of my life.

The pieces are there, they just haven’t been put together correctly. Personally, I think the biggest issue is that we have had so many injuries on the offensive line. That rotating cast has cost us.

 

[Ozzy]

To me it’s a bad OC and a poor defensive scheme that trots vanilla sets out time after time. When was the last time you saw a clever play by the Hawks. No innovation. No creativity. No risk.

The coordinators are always the scapegoats even though what we see is more of the same regardless of who’s in charge of the offense or defense. I think it’s time people start putting at least some of the blame on Pete

 

[HawkinNY]

It's just a F*CKING GAME...did you ever fail at anything in your life? Most of us have, I sure as hell have, what would happen if we all held ourselves to the expectations we hold our teams too? I decided I am going to work on myself and "my team" will do what it does and I am ok with it

Exactly. We should take a step back and stop being so dedicated to a sports team and the players. I used to be so destroyed after a loss of my sports teams. It’s honestly pathetic.

We should also demand sports be affordable again. Make them earn our attention again.

 

[Optimus25]

Geno has 3 weeks where Zach Wilson has had more passing yards than him.

Nothing more need be said.

 

[Hawkamaniac]

I see two teams. The first is young and promising, often fun to watch, and a solid 6-3. The second looks awful. Zero rhythm, horribly undisciplined, and 0-2 with a minus 60 point differential.

The difference in the two is quality of opponent. And it because they are so far from being competitive against the SB contenders that I can’t be excited about the 6-3 squad.

 

[Mad Dog]

The coordinators are always the scapegoats even though what we see is more of the same regardless of who’s in charge of the offense or defense. I think it’s time people start putting at least some of the blame on Pete

I blame him for the defensive scheme. I still don’t believe in Waldron. Barring a miracle turnaround, both should be shown the door at the end of this year.

 

[Xxx]

I enjoyed the optimism coming from the fan base to start the season, and I kept my mouth shut for the most part. However, I was pointing out last year before anyone that Shane Waldron did not have enough variations in his play calling. People started harping on Geno and his turnover worthy throws. Great, he definitely had a lot, but it was DBs jumping routes because they were running the routes better than the receivers in a lot of cases. That speaks to the OC having been figured out by the league. It is up to the coordinator to have variations upon variations upon variations to make sure they are at least a step ahead of the defense. Waldron is not that. Pete probably wanted to give him another season to prove himself, but it was to our detriment.

I was not a fan of the Hurtt hire and have posted several times regarding him and his lack of creativity with stunts and blitzes. He came up with some changes last year that worked for five games, but as soon as the OCs of the league caught on and started running us, he could not come up with an answer.

Going into the season, my optimism was guarded. We definitely have talent, but with two coordinators who had been figured out in a half season and did not make enough changes during the season makes us limited in potential. Carroll kept them, he is responsible for this mess. His haters always point to him meddling without understanding that he gives his coordinators too much rope trying to develop them to move up in their careers. The game has not passed him by, he simply has chosen poorly those he trusts to take him into the new NFL styles. It is time for him to retire. Unfortunately, he has become the enemy for so many who simply do not understand him.

I don’t know if it’s just me but there are fundamental ways to control a game that are basic that we seam to just abandon. Figuring out our coordinators is one thing but what happened to conviction to play smart football and let the basics pave the way for the spectacular. It’s like they just want 100 yards on every play…

 

[Xxx]

The bottom line with this team is we have SHIT players in the trenches. Neither offensive or defensive linemen are good enough, or getting the job done for whatever reason. All the other talent is there, but lacking those key pieces, neither side of the ball can function well against any decent teams.

Man I don’t about that. The scheme is making it harder for them. There are better ways to beat the niners and Joey Bosa than just stand there and try to block him for 8 seconds

 

[Maelstrom787]

The bottom line with this team is we have SHIT players in the trenches. Neither offensive or defensive linemen are good enough, or getting the job done for whatever reason. All the other talent is there, but lacking those key pieces, neither side of the ball can function well against any decent teams.

I actually am starting to really like our talent on the DL. Jarran isn't going to last long as he ages, I'm sure, but boy - what a revelation. Was terrible in Green Bay, but right back to vintage Jarran stepping in here. Something about Jarran and Hurtt, those guys just go together.

Cam Young has some enticing anchor and Nwosu/Mafe figure to be a hell of an edge duo. Leo is just solid as can be. They're getting decent pressure, they're defending the run decently for the most part... I think they're the one single group who has really exceeded expectations thus far.

OL, yeah. We keep getting caught in this cycle of "let them develop," but you can't really wait years and years for development while suffering subpar IOL play the entire time. I don't think they're coached especially well. Dickerson has some potential but the guys lack detail. They look like they don't know what to do at the second level and it hurts the ceiling of the rush game. That said, I trust their ability to evaluate talent for the most part. Olu looks promising, Cross has been the best tackle pick of the top part of that draft, and Abe Lucas was a slam dunk who is unfortunately dealing with injury concerns likely permanently.

We just need guys to take them to that next step of operation. They'd be helped by a more detail-oriented staff, because for once, I don't think the problem is predominantly talent/player eval overall like it has been in the past.

 

[Maelstrom787]

You base success on the regular season which is meaningless when looking at the big prize. As i've said a bazillion times, it doesn't need to be the Super Bowl, but at least show me some progress. The Chiefs, Patriots, and Packers at least get past the 2nd round at points and reach the Championship games at times (Mike Tomlin is the AFC's Pete Carroll,,,,sorry Steelers). Seattles post season record in the past 8 years has been abysmal. They have been nothing more than pretenders in that time span. So just having winning records without a hope of post season advancement year after year does not define success to me.

I think we're framing successes and failures differently, and that's why we keep revisiting the same kind of philosophical arguments.

When looking from an outsiders perspective and trying to put ourselves in the shoes of an objective observer, I'd consider them successful. This is because we would compare their level of success against the rest of the league, and they rank highly in that regard.

With the perspective of a fan, though, we would base success more on accolades and big victories, like postseason success. This would then lead us to classify the organization as failing overall.

It's all just a perspective issue. When comparing it to the job performance of an individual like you or I, I'm sure overall win percentage would be more applicable. They'd be a "better than average performer." As fans, though, we stake our hopes on them being the department-topping, big swingin' ding-dong stud who wins the year end accolades.

Lots of ways to define success and failure. All depends on our individual expectations. Some of us would endorse the Rams model, some of us would go slow and steady with classic Green Bay school team building. Just like the coaches in the league, I suppose we're all different in that way.