Historically, how bad is this defense?

[ZagHawk]

For those making excuses...there will be a game RW only scores 24 points or under and the D will need to make up for that. I don’t think anyone demands this defense be elite right now but if it can just get to average that would go a long way.

 

[Optimus25]

We did just play games against 3 of the best QBs of the last 10-15 years or so. :229031_shrug:

Ummm. Cam was 2015 MVP, Matt Ryan 2016, and Dak was drafted in 2016.

I get 5 years. Dear lord, 15 years ago we'd be talking about Shaun Alexander.

On another note, where was Diggs? i had no idea he was out there and i had to go back to the game day forum to look at the inactives to make sure i didn't miss anything.

 

[Own The West]

What is more important in football, points or yards?

The yards are disconcerting, but if the points were somewhere near 20 PPG instead of near 30 PPG I'd feel much better about the long term importance. Hopefully they get it down after this stretch.

The PPG will come down in the next couple weeks. ATL, NE, and DAL are top 10 offenses. Also, we just beat the only good teams in the AFC/NFC East and we're going to fatten up on the rest of those crap divisions.

Get happy we have the tie-breaker over Dallas too!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good point Zag, average would be a hell of an improvement

 

[Sgt. Largent]

On another note, where was Diggs? i had no idea he was out there and i had to go back to the game day forum to look at the inactives to make sure i didn't miss anything.

When you have two CB's not playing well and your SS dropping down into the box on over half the defensive snaps because you need him to help with the pass rush, it makes it VERY difficult on your FS.

Diggs has been running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to minimize our corners getting beat and guys running across the middle of the formations free because Adams has been at the line of scrimmage.

So hard to blame him for not making plays........IMO Pete's putting a little too much on his plate, and like I said his CB's aren't helping him out. Especially yesterday with Flowers in the game. Dude's brutal.

 

[Optimus25]

On another note, where was Diggs? i had no idea he was out there and i had to go back to the game day forum to look at the inactives to make sure i didn't miss anything.

When you have two CB's not playing well and your SS dropping down into the box on over half the defensive snaps because you need him to help with the pass rush, it makes it VERY difficult on your FS.

Diggs has been running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to minimize our corners getting beat and guys running across the middle of the formations free because Adams has been at the line of scrimmage.

So hard to blame him for not making plays........IMO Pete's putting a little too much on his plate, and like I said his CB's aren't helping him out. Especially yesterday with Flowers in the game. Dude's brutal.

Makes sense. I wasn't even pushing blame. Just did not hear his name once, which was strange to say the least. Really, the gameplan worked. focus on Zeke. But with a 30-15 lead us giving up those big plays deep was so amazingly unacceptable.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

On another note, where was Diggs? i had no idea he was out there and i had to go back to the game day forum to look at the inactives to make sure i didn't miss anything.

When you have two CB's not playing well and your SS dropping down into the box on over half the defensive snaps because you need him to help with the pass rush, it makes it VERY difficult on your FS.

Diggs has been running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to minimize our corners getting beat and guys running across the middle of the formations free because Adams has been at the line of scrimmage.

So hard to blame him for not making plays........IMO Pete's putting a little too much on his plate, and like I said his CB's aren't helping him out. Especially yesterday with Flowers in the game. Dude's brutal.

Makes sense. I wasn't even pushing blame. Just did not hear his name once, which was strange to say the least. Really, the gameplan worked. focus on Zeke. But with a 30-15 lead us giving up those big plays deep was so amazingly unacceptable.

Six tackles yesterday, that's the most this year for Diggs. So yeah he hasn't had the pick sixes or big hits we got used to seeing last year yet. But IMO he's the least of our worries with the defensive backfield right now.

Worry is what's going to happen over the next 3-4 weeks if Dunbar and Adams aren't healthy.

 

[Optimus25]

On another note, where was Diggs? i had no idea he was out there and i had to go back to the game day forum to look at the inactives to make sure i didn't miss anything.

When you have two CB's not playing well and your SS dropping down into the box on over half the defensive snaps because you need him to help with the pass rush, it makes it VERY difficult on your FS.

Diggs has been running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to minimize our corners getting beat and guys running across the middle of the formations free because Adams has been at the line of scrimmage.

So hard to blame him for not making plays........IMO Pete's putting a little too much on his plate, and like I said his CB's aren't helping him out. Especially yesterday with Flowers in the game. Dude's brutal.

Makes sense. I wasn't even pushing blame. Just did not hear his name once, which was strange to say the least. Really, the gameplan worked. focus on Zeke. But with a 30-15 lead us giving up those big plays deep was so amazingly unacceptable.

Six tackles yesterday, that's the most this year for Diggs. So yeah he hasn't had the pick sixes or big hits we got used to seeing last year yet. But IMO he's the least of our worries with the defensive backfield right now.

Worry is what's going to happen over the next 3-4 weeks if Dunbar and Adams aren't healthy.

Pandemonium. I mean 30-15 and we get completely toasted, and oh by the way, NONE of it came from Cooper or Lamb. Hell i think Cooper was riding the bench during their big strikes.

I just can't imagine how you give up big plays with a 2 touchdown lead. and not even like crazy occurrences or fluke plays, like a guy running RIGHT BY your corner. Like Aikman said, he didn't juke, he didn't double move, he just ran right past him. When you're playing with a lead, that's so bad i can't even. I just can't.

Is Cary Williams available somewhere out there? Flowers is not even backup grade at this point.

 

[sdog1981]

If Norton was as bad as you say he is the Hawks wouldn't be 3-0... the fact that they are 3-0 is because the D stepped up and made plays when they needed too... Stats dont win football games heart and clutch plays do...

LTH[/quote]

That is the same as saying whoever built the pool on the Titanic should be praised for keeping it filled with water for 108 years.

 

[AgentDib]

The defense has been bad but not because of yards allowed or explained by yards allowed. In fact, yards allowed has always been a poor metric to measure this defense with.

Conventional statistics would tell you that it is much worse for the opponent to have 1st and 10 from our 20 yard line then 1st and 10 from the 50. However, ask yourself how much worse that really feels:

1) Our defense has done well so far when the opponent is in the red zone and everything is compressed. We've forced turnovers on downs and field goals and have generally been very stout in that situation. Combined with our excellent run defense thus far there's plenty of room for optimism here.

2) Conversely, when the opponent is still 30+ yards out we've given up a lot of TDs this season to explosive plays. The field is stretched, we've had a number of injuries at key spots, and our DL even at full strength didn't look to be generating much pressure this year. Yesterday we were missing four key members of our secondary (adams, dunbar, blair, lano) and were down to a safety from the practice squad.

Due to our problems in the secondary, I would argue that we actually would have given up less points yesterday if the Cowboys got a free trip to our 20 every time they reached mid-field.

The defense has been bad because they are giving up those explosive plays, and Pete is likely the most concerned person about that in the northwest. The golden rule for his secondary is to keep plays in front of them, and he's willing to give up lots of yards in order to shut down explosive plays. He believes that his defense can stand their ground in the red zone, and when you force opposing QBs to complete many short passes to move the ball down the field then the occasionally missed throw will lead to interceptions as we saw yesterday.

Personally, I am on the optimistic side here because I think we should be getting some of our injured guys back in the next week or two, or after the bye at the latest. I also think that explosive plays are something that we can clean up, and the ability for the defense to make stops in the red zone will be extremely valuable down the road.

 

[Mad Dog]

What is more important in football, points or yards?

The yards are disconcerting, but if the points were somewhere near 20 PPG instead of near 30 PPG I'd feel much better about the long term importance. Hopefully they get it down after this stretch.

The PPG will come down in the next couple weeks. ATL, NE, and DAL are top 10 offenses. Also, we just beat the only good teams in the AFC/NFC East and we're going to fatten up on the rest of those crap divisions.

Get happy we have the tie-breaker over Dallas too!

Buffalo says hi.

But i agree that ATL and DAL have top passing offenses. NE not so much but admittedly Edelman played out of his mind.

We'll get a better look in Miami facing Fitzpatrick. We can't give up 450 passing yards to Fitz, can we?

 

[bmorepunk]

Good point Zag, average would be a hell of an improvement

If they can get to average by the end of the season they'll have a really good shot in the playoffs.

 

[aawolf]

To answer the initial question: How bad historically is this defense? The question was raised and answered by the Ringer:
So far this season, the Seahawks have allowed a full Columbus: 1,492 total yards. The only team in league history to give up more yards through three games is last year’s Miami Dolphins.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/9/28 ... s-mvp-buzz

 

[DomeHawk]

There is a lot of somewhat oddball stuff that happened yesterday to allow the Hawks to be in position to win the game at the end:

+2 in turnovers
safety
Dallas missed two extra points
Dallas defense committed a ton of drive extending penalties in the first half
Second chance on a two point conversion after missing the first

etc

If a couple of those don't happen then Dallas only need a FG to tie or win the game. That type of stuff is not going to happen every game

Excellent points Tater but that's football and it works both ways. You gotta have a little luck too.

 

[olyfan63]

There is a lot of somewhat oddball stuff that happened yesterday to allow the Hawks to be in position to win the game at the end:

+2 in turnovers
safety
Dallas missed two extra points
Dallas defense committed a ton of drive extending penalties in the first half
Second chance on a two point conversion after missing the first

etc

If a couple of those don't happen then Dallas only need a FG to tie or win the game. That type of stuff is not going to happen every game

Yup.
And really, the safety counts as a "virtual turnover", in my book. So +3 in turnovers.

We also got some "gifted" "hustle" points. Gifted as a result of the effort by our defense, with the exception of the outright missed extra point by Zeurlein. Shaquill Griffin blocked the 2nd PAT that was "missed". Extra points + safetey, +4 "gift points" right there. Plus the pick from Shaq before half that Russell converted into a TD, +7. Plus the sack-fumble we converted into a TD, +7 more. So 17-18 out of our 38 points were "gifts" for hard work, hustle, and opportunism.

On a positive note, we were able to put in Shaquim Griffin and Ryan Neal instead of Etric Pruitt. Kudos to Pete and John for keeping practice squad players coached up and ready to contribute.

The team found a way when it mattered.

 

[chris98251]

There is a lot of somewhat oddball stuff that happened yesterday to allow the Hawks to be in position to win the game at the end:

+2 in turnovers
safety
Dallas missed two extra points
Dallas defense committed a ton of drive extending penalties in the first half
Second chance on a two point conversion after missing the first

etc

If a couple of those don't happen then Dallas only need a FG to tie or win the game. That type of stuff is not going to happen every game

Yup.
And really, the safety counts as a "virtual turnover", in my book. So +3 in turnovers.

We also got some "gifted" "hustle" points. Gifted as a result of the effort by our defense, with the exception of the outright missed extra point by Zeurlein. Shaquill Griffin blocked the 2nd PAT that was "missed". Extra points + safetey, +4 "gift points" right there. Plus the pick from Shaq before half that Russell converted into a TD, +7. Plus the sack-fumble we converted into a TD, +7 more. So 17-18 out of our 38 points were "gifts" for hard work, hustle, and opportunism.

On a positive note, we were able to put in Shaquim Griffin and Ryan Neal instead of Etric Pruitt. Kudos to Pete and John for keeping practice squad players coached up and ready to contribute.

The team found a way when it mattered.

Neal has a bit of experience and is pretty savvy, bounced around a bit. Glad we could grab him.

 

[NINEster]

Gave up a lot of yards but still held at the end.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

A Niner fan who gets it ^^^^

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JohnPGilbertNFL/status/1310725812589678597[/tweet]

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Then make it a DC "open camp" then.

People were upset about Cable. That is nothing compared to what kn's record is. It's really true that we're worse stat wise than the... Dolphins? Of last year? Who were trying to tank?

Most of these squeaker wins aren't happening because Russ doesn't get to cook. As of this year he's gets to do that, but it takes two sides to get the job done and we're thinking that if he just sets up enough hibachis that'll do it.