How much longer is the world gonna pretend Wilson is elite?

[jeremiah]

Russ had a great start. MVP first half of the season no doubt. If you’re being honest Russ has been pretty bad for good stretch now. Particularly awful 2 out of the last 3 games. My same complaint with Russ will always be the same. Lack of consistency. Elite Qb’s have moments when they aren’t their best and maybe look like a Top 10 Qb rather then a top 5. Russ goes to a bottom 5 level several games a season. He becomes almost unrecognizable. This is why I personally don’t consider him Elite. Go Hawks

RW WAS one of the top 3, until he bulked up and lost that "spring in his step". He is not even the second best QB in the league anymore running the ball and dodging tacklers. He is probably 3rd or 4th most slippery this year. He is top 5-7 in the NFL for sure, that is the definition of elite.

 

[jeremiah]

For 8 seasons Wilson has had OLs that couldn't pass protect . He has been sack pounded every season . Carroll is so " pound the rock " obsessed that he has basically left Wilson on an "island" to fend for himself ; because he could scramble . Wilson might not be an elite QB now ; but he sure could of been if not for the careless mismanagement of his talents by Carroll . Carroll has always treated Wilson as just another player . I personally am sick and tired of that gum smacking... hand clapping old man . He's wash up in my book .

My thoughts on RW are nearly smack dab like yours. About PC, same.

 

[HansGruber]

It’s so frustrating to watch him play.

Go back to your bridge, troll

 

[Fade]

@Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda.

I can't find it at the moment but someone had a tweet showing Wilson was the most valuable QB $$$ wise (as in bang for the buck) of all the QBs not on rookie contracts and it wasn't even close. Seattle also has the 8th most cap space going into next year. I played with the Salary Cap caculator and filled out Seattle's roster with their ERFA's, RFA's, a rookie class, and cutting some likely casualties, and they have about $65M+ to play with next off-season.

FunFacts:
Tom Brady has counted more against the salary cap over the last 5 years than Russell Wilson. The Patriots didn't have a problem building a line around him. And winning 2 Super Bowls in that time. 3 in the last 6. Their line sucks this year, and Brady is being called washed up, he isn't, he is just living a bit in Russell Wilson's world for a change.

Drew Brees & Aaron Rodgers have one of the best O-Lines, and consistently has one of the best O-Lines in the NFL, and consistently they've had higher cap hits than Russell Wilson year in and year out.

Wilson's Cap hit isn't the problem.

It's been three things.

1. They don't know how to build an O-Line. They had the highest paid O-Line in 2013 and ranked 32nd. They spent more draft capital at the O-Line position than any other team. It hasn't been a resource issue, it has been they don't know what they are doing issue.

2. Taking Wilson's mobility for granted for years. They figure Wilson can just escape, so all they need to do is focus on run blocking.

3. Tom Cable, which mostly ties back into reason #1, but here they are again in 2019 with the 31st best O-Line.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Moo/status/1205153617570914309[/tweet]
79x!!!!!
[tweet]https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1208891173365895168[/tweet]

The summary of what the Seattle Seahawks have been for a long time.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1208900744272916480[/tweet]


Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[IndyHawk]

"]@Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda[/b].
:shock: :177692: :34853_doh:
Too funny...
I didn't start on the cap till it went there and then used the Cowboys.
John:If your ok with just an average line.(My bad)

 

[John63]

"aznxle3]@Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda[/b].
:shock: :177692: :34853_doh:
Too funny...
I didn't start on the cap till it went there and then used the Cowboys.
John:If your ok with just an average line.(My bad)

At this point avg would be such an up grade I would take it.

 

[getnasty]

Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

 

[getnasty]

Russell Wilson's last 5 season's

2015-2019

79 Games | 50-28-1

153 TDs
42 INTs
7.9 YPA
102.6 Passer Rating (107.3 in 2019 alone)

to go along with being a runner, 2087 rush yards, & 8 TDs

PFF Offensive line rank in that span: (30, 32, 27, 19, 31)

On a team that is built to run the ball, and play defense. Not built around him. Performing at this level you should be extremely impressed, because no one in the league is doing what Wilson is doing behind wretched offensive lines.


Drew Brees

72 Games | 45-27

148 TDs
43 INTs
7.9 YPA

106.4 Passer Rating

PFF Offensive line rank: (13, 12, 9, 11, 4)

On a team that is built around him, with a top playcaller, an elite offensive line, with weapons galore.


What games have you been watching the last 5 years?


[youtube]0GSUlHaX0RY[/youtube]

But, but, but.....Tical has never seen so many excuses. Never mind your facts Fade.

I look at these stats and say why change? Stats are just as good and win lose is better. You can say it makes a case that Russell is elite, you can also say it looks like Pete know what he's doing too.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Wilson is pretty damn good but the problems lie deeper than Wilson.

Wilson masks the inabilities and deficiencies of incompetent coaching.

How many times have we seen Wilson win games that he just makes magic happens?

It shouldn’t come down to that.

But Wilson saves Carroll from improving or making any adjustments.

This season should prove that if you did not see it in previous years.

This x's a bazillion.

Russ is elite. He's a QB thats stuck and been handcuffed in a system that doesnt allow him to be his best self. The guy is still going to the HoF despite all of it too. Pete Carroll is the luckiest NFL coach in the world that he has Wilson because there arent many QB's that could survive, yet excel in his system. Its just a shame that we as fans may never get to see Russ play with a creative OC and an open offense to highlight his true talents.

 

[RCATES]

If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.

 

[John63]

If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.

Brady and his top oline you mean? Also please tell me were Brady won in the playoffs with no names wr, and RBs. FYI Wilson has won in the playoffs too.

FyI "elite QBs win" Wilson is the winningest QB in NFL history in his first 8 years, thanks now we know he is Elite.

 

[Fade]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-breaking-down-nfl-playoff-picture-pff-metrics

 

[Fade]

Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.

Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

Dumb.

 

[John63]

Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.

Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

Dumb.

The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.

 

[thegameq]

Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?

 

[John63]

Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?

These are interesting points however PC made it clear when he got here before Wilson the system he wanted to run, and he has shown he is going to stick with it for the most part. ON the occasions they have morphed the offense around Wilson it has worked well. IF anything I can see base don last game and PCs comments that it has been more about the in ability of our oline to protect him.

Given we have seen Wilson perform in a system more built for him, most of 2015, games throughout the last few years, we know he can. We have also seen him in College in different systems perform well. We know PC wants to run his system.

This is pretty simple to me you have a coach who is going to run his system period. So coaches are like that adn it appears PC is one of them.

Now ass to your surgical person thing, one the system we use does not do that, so it would have to have been on those off times PC runs a different system.

That said just this year I can say
Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.

To me the actual EVIDENCE shows this is PC wanting to run his system and an oline that cannot protect. Now why because PC has said this, so that make sit open-and-shut,

 

[Tical21]

Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?

These are interesting points however PC made it clear when he got here before Wilson the system he wanted to run, and he has shown he is going to stick with it for the most part. ON the occasions they have morphed the offense around Wilson it has worked well. IF anything I can see base don last game and PCs comments that it has been more about the in ability of our oline to protect him.

Given we have seen Wilson perform in a system more built for him, most of 2015, games throughout the last few years, we know he can. We have also seen him in College in different systems perform well. We know PC wants to run his system.

This is pretty simple to me you have a coach who is going to run his system period. So coaches are like that adn it appears PC is one of them.

Now ass to your surgical person thing, one the system we use does not do that, so it would have to have been on those off times PC runs a different system.

That said just this year I can say
Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.

To me the actual EVIDENCE shows this is PC wanting to run his system and an oline that cannot protect. Now why because PC has said this, so that make sit open-and-shut,

Hahahahahhaaahaaaaaaa

 

[John63]

The interesting part of this thread is the OP actually thinks the whole world is pretending he is Elite, when they are not pretending.

Top 10 qb rating (5)
Top 10 QBR (7)
Top 10 PFF (2)
Top 10 PFT(3)
Top 10 DYAR (5)
Top 10 DVOA(7)
Top 10 NFL (3)

Open shut hes Elite.

 

[chris98251]

The interesting part of this thread is the OP actually thinks the whole world is pretending he is Elite, when they are not pretending.

Top 10 qb rating (5)
Top 10 QBR (7)
Top 10 PFF (2)
Top 10 PFT(3)
Top 10 DYAR (5)
Top 10 DVOA(7)
Top 10 NFL (3)

Open shut hes Elite.

But is he

elite
Elite
or
ELITE.....