Identity on offense by doing it Pete Carroll’s way

[Fade]

Pete Carroll's ideal offense is a fossil that belongs to the stone age. I'm not talking about just running the ball either. It's a relic of the 70s, it's not a good offense for the modern NFL era.

The passing routes concepts ignore the short middle of the field and don't put much of an emphasis on the short passing game. The running game concepts are extremely basic and elementary. Most of the routes are sideline routes that are intermediate or deep. It's sole purpose seems to be eliminating the toxic differential.

That is all fine and dandy if you have a good defense. We do not have a good defense to lean on. Even when we did it turned every game into nail biters.

Honestly I wish Pete Carroll would stay the hell away from anything involving the offense. He's been nothing but a boat anchor around the offenses neck.

He needs to stay away from the defense, too. They are a laughing stock on that side of the ball.



The whole cliche´ of "identity." I find it funny how it only ever pertains to running the football when dudes who don't know a lot about football, but want to sound smart say crap like this.

Why is this "identity" never mentioned when it comes to defense, special teams, or throwing the football?

BUT jokes aside, Pete is right in this instance with the current state of the team.

1) The playcaller is struggling to run Pete's offense. Waldron has been de-nutted. Pete didn't like what he saw week 1 for whatever reason, and Pete has reverted back to what they've done in the past.

2) They're playing with a backup QB, who has a history of being turnover prone. They must limit Geno.

3) The offensive line cannot pass protect to save their lives.

Duane Brown has regressed. Damien Lewis is injured and wasn't a good passblocker anyway. The Center just isn't good. Gabe Jackson is good, I don't care what the PFF grade on him is. Shell is serviceable.

Once again the Seattle Seahawks are a dumpster fire on the O-Line and one the worst units in the NFL, pathetic.

RUN THE BALL.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Pete Carroll's ideal offense is a fossil that belongs to the stone age. I'm not talking about just running the ball either. It's a relic of the 70s, it's not a good offense for the modern NFL era.

The passing routes concepts ignore the short middle of the field and don't put much of an emphasis on the short passing game. The running game concepts are extremely basic and elementary. Most of the routes are sideline routes that are intermediate or deep. It's sole purpose seems to be eliminating the toxic differential.

That is all fine and dandy if you have a good defense. We do not have a good defense to lean on. Even when we did it turned every game into nail biters.

Honestly I wish Pete Carroll would stay the hell away from anything involving the offense. He's been nothing but a boat anchor around the offenses neck.

He needs to stay away from the defense, too. They are a laughing stock on that side of the ball.



The whole cliche´ of "identity." I find it funny how it only ever pertains to running the football when dudes who don't know a lot about football, but want to sound smart say crap like this.

Why is this "identity" never mentioned when it comes to defense, special teams, or throwing the football?

BUT jokes aside, Pete is right in this instance with the current state of the team.

1) The playcaller is struggling to run Pete's offense. Waldron has been de-nutted. Pete didn't like what he saw week 1 for whatever reason, and Pete has reverted back to what they've done in the past.

2) They're playing with a backup QB, who has a history of being turnover prone. They must limit Geno.

3) The offensive line cannot pass protect to save their lives.

Duane Brown has regressed. Damien Lewis is injured and wasn't a good passblocker anyway. The Center just isn't good. Gabe Jackson is good, I don't care what the PFF grade on him is. Shell is serviceable.

Once again the Seattle Seahawks are a dumpster fire on the O-Line and one the worst units in the NFL, pathetic.

RUN THE BALL.

I agree with running the ball, I'm just afraid for what it'll mean for when Wilson comes back.

 

[LTH]

Pete Carroll's ideal offense is a fossil that belongs to the stone age. I'm not talking about just running the ball either. It's a relic of the 70s, it's not a good offense for the modern NFL era.

The passing routes concepts ignore the short middle of the field and don't put much of an emphasis on the short passing game. The running game concepts are extremely basic and elementary. Most of the routes are sideline routes that are intermediate or deep. It's sole purpose seems to be eliminating the toxic differential.

That is all fine and dandy if you have a good defense. We do not have a good defense to lean on. Even when we did it turned every game into nail biters.

Honestly I wish Pete Carroll would stay the hell away from anything involving the offense. He's been nothing but a boat anchor around the offenses neck.

He needs to stay away from the defense, too. They are a laughing stock on that side of the ball.



The whole cliche´ of "identity." I find it funny how it only ever pertains to running the football when dudes who don't know a lot about football, but want to sound smart say crap like this.

Why is this "identity" never mentioned when it comes to defense, special teams, or throwing the football?

BUT jokes aside, Pete is right in this instance with the current state of the team.

1) The playcaller is struggling to run Pete's offense. Waldron has been de-nutted. Pete didn't like what he saw week 1 for whatever reason, and Pete has reverted back to what they've done in the past.

2) They're playing with a backup QB, who has a history of being turnover prone. They must limit Geno.


3) The offensive line cannot pass protect to save their lives.

Duane Brown has regressed. Damien Lewis is injured and wasn't a good passblocker anyway. The Center just isn't good. Gabe Jackson is good, I don't care what the PFF grade on him is. Shell is serviceable.

Once again the Seattle Seahawks are a dumpster fire on the O-Line and one the worst units in the NFL, pathetic.

RUN THE BALL.

Question for you Fade. What information do you have that Pete didn't like what was going on in week 1? Is that your opinion? you make a lot of assumption... Do you have something to source that to? probably not... Where are you getting your information from because i know your not sitting in the meetings so how do you come up with these claims?


LTH

 

[Tinamedina]

I dont think anybody is romanticized anything. There are some here that look at last year as one that was sabotaged by Pete after mid-season by not letting Russ Cook. There are others that think he brought balance to a one sided,foundering attack.. If the start of this season has shown anything on Offense its that when the plays go through the hawks qb (pass over run over and over to the same players on similar routes) you get at best a half game of predictable, positive play. And absent someone stepping and saying 'stop the nonsense' like he did Sunday or talked last season about doing, all youbget is the same old hawks. Great yards for half a game. Solid highlights for ESPN. And then drives that stall over and over.

And the defense has been remarkably bad, but again, as evudenced by solid play when they weren't made to be on the field more than they were responsible for themselves. 9ers our offense sucked for the majority of the game, D was solid in the first half. Rams - D was better than average in the first half. Steelers- again, solid performance and got the stops when needed. It's a long season. And there more going on on in this team than xs and os. It's obvious that there is continued friction between Pete and Russ and that's nit helping the dynamic of the team or the performance on the field.

12-4 Last year. And if yiu want to cry about hiw Pete sabotaged the game, do yourself a favor and get the all 22 through ngl game pass and watch it. We dint lose that game because of Pete. If there was a way to post the entire game clip of all-22 without being fined out the butt I would. The games this year have been no less telling.

greg olsen says it was pete carrolls fault. im gonna believe greg olsen.

 

[Tinamedina]

So we have one halfish of looking good doing it Pete’s way. And the next teams aren’t going to see that and (I know it’s weird but) adjust? If we do against the Saints what we did 2/3 of the second half we will likely look more like we did at the end of the game after they adjusted. I loved when we picked up Collins and how he ran Sunday. I just don’t think it’s enough.

If they do adjust we have a counter. The issue to date is that the counter to the 2 deep safety looks has been... crickets. We have yet to commit to the run the way we should. Instead, we've continued to try to drop back and rely on big plays from DK and Lock. If / when defenses do decide to bring a safety down, well then we can exploit the opening that creates in the secondary, and we have a beast of a TE to do that, plus DK and Lock.

I do think part of what's been holding the offense back is an adherence to the big play over logical play. Against the Steelers , we started the game trying to nickel and dime against a team that had a great pass rush and wouldn't allow us to get settled. I think we stayed there as long as we did because thats the way the offense has been drawn up when Russ is in in terms of how much we lean on the run. The difference when RW is playing though is rather than getting a reliable rushing play of 4 or 5 yards, we will take a pass and if it's covered, Russ will extend and make a play. But this makes us reliant not on a strategy, but solely on Russel's talent. And the challenge there is that Russ can't win us every play to sustain drives and that kind of play doesnt force defenses to do anything else but contain Russ and take away the longer developing deep plays to basically 2 of 5 potential wr targets (Tyler and DK).

In every game we've played, our offense has either played well but been either figured out by the half, or hasn't functioned unless Russ has manufactured magic off script - the 9ers game comes to mind ( the scramble TD and the spin / escape and TD pass). That's why there's been the talk about the lack of identity. We don't have one. We need one. Pete just waited too long to change it Sunday night.

seattle has an identity, their identity is carroll pretends to have it together and russell wilson saves the day only for carroll to take the credit. thats all they've been doing for the past 5 or 6 years now. the reason they lost to the steelers is because they needed wilson and he wasn't there to bail carroll out, they will lose to the saints as well for the same reason. jacob eason is tall, and thats it.

 

[Fade]

Question for you Fade. What information do you have that Pete didn't like what was going on in week 1? Is that your opinion? you make a lot of assumption... Do you have something to source that to? probably not... Where are you getting your information from because i know your not sitting in the meetings so how do you come up with these claims?


LTH

Pete literally said, "Shane Waldron is open to the things we've been doing around here."

After week 2 or 3. (Pete does a lot of pressers and I don't feel like digging through to find it.) Because the offense started creeping back to what it had looked like before.

This is what it looked like week 1 ->
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

https://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=174489
Read this thread if you need a refresher, but the clip in the tweet should make it obvious.

 

[scutterhawk]

Um, uh, so help me to understand, 'Having a More Balanced Attack' like we had when we had Lynch & Wilson tearing up Defenses, by forcing them to play "PC ball" WASN'T Pete Carroll's plan?

 

[LTH]

Question for you Fade. What information do you have that Pete didn't like what was going on in week 1? Is that your opinion? you make a lot of assumption... Do you have something to source that to? probably not... Where are you getting your information from because i know your not sitting in the meetings so how do you come up with these claims?


LTH

Pete literally said, "Shane Waldron is open to the things we've been doing around here."

After week 2 or 3. (Pete does a lot of pressers and I don't feel like digging through to find it.) Because the offense started creeping back to what it had looked like before.

This is what it looked like week 1 ->
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

https://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=174489
Read this thread if you need a refresher, but the clip in the tweet should make it obvious.

I get it... I read and listen to a lot of stuff too... I'm not wanting to spend the time it takes to find stuffeither.. LOL because I don't care that much and I'm sure you are the same...so I'll give you that..

The problem is I've never heard Pete say he is pushing Waldron into what they were doing in the past... from my understanding its the opposite Pete has given up control to Waldron and Russ to create..

It was always my feeling that Pete didn't like how Schotty was doing things in the past which was why he fired him or how ever that end should be characterized... So its a head scratcher to me when I here you say

"Because the offense started creeping back to what it had looked like before." Saying that it is Pete medaling in the O basically...

Then the comment of what Pete said:

Pete literally said, "Shane Waldron is open to the things we've been doing around here."

Which in my mind doesn't say Pete is medaling... what it says to me is there are some very effective things the Seahawks do that should be incorporated into Waldron's O and that very well could be important to Russ.... we don't know for sure..

We don't really know what's going on... Is it Pete medaling? is it Russ? Is it both? They are not saying (to my Knowledge who is influencing this current evolution of the O)... we don't have the facts

The problem is we do not have a fact based media... this is a VERY important issue... most of what we are reading is fact mixed in with the writers opinion.. So what ends up happening are conclusions are drawn from an opinion that may or may not be true

Lets look at the article that I posted

Salk believes that in 2021, with a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron working with Wilson, that Carroll has been compromising in terms of how Seattle’s offense operates.

“That’s not being convicted in your identity,” he said. “Yesterday, I saw a coach at halftime who said, ‘No more. No more will I allow this to happen. No more will I continue to compromise with a player who’s not even out here. We’re going to do this my way. I’m the coach, I’m in charge, we’re doing this my way.'”

This is Salks statement.. from this statement you can surmise a lot of things...reading this I could come away with the impression that there is still a major riff between Wilson and Carroll...

"No more will I continue to compromise with a player who’s not even out here"

Is that the case? Maybe... but he doesn't back it up with any thing but opinion.. was he in the locker room when he heard this at half time? No.. so where did he come up with that? Did Pete actually characterize that statement with that emotion or is that Salks opinion of what is happening? I tend to think its true being that the Hawks ran the crap out of the ball in the 2nd half... I tend to think that Carroll is compromising with Waldron and Russ... Is it correct? truthfully I don't know because I didn't here it from Carroll, Russ or Waldron... I heard it from a reporter giving his opinion...

I think this is an example of what I'm saying it's really hard to read between the lines because we don't have a fact based media like we have had in the past..

Can you see what I'm saying?

LTH

 

[Fade]

@ LTH

If you watch that 49 sec. clip I posted, and do not notice a stark difference, there is nothing I can do to help you.

 

[John63]

@ LTH

If you watch that 49 sec. clip I posted, and do not notice a stark difference, there is nothing I can do to help you.

I don't think he is debating the stark difference, He is just trying to debate whether PC had anything to do with the difference. I guess he prefers to think its Waldron or Wilson.

Lets look at both

Wilson, he went 18/23 78% complt, 4 tds, 254 yards and a 152.3 Passer rating, 11 ypa. Hmm yeah no reason for it to be Wilson at all those are MVP numbers

Waldron- well his offense provided MVP numbers for his Qb, an Rb at 91 yards and they won. Doe snot sound like it would be Waldron

PC- We lost TOP. One of PCs 2 biggest hot buttons, TOP, and TOs.

Forget the defense gave up a 9+ minute drive to start the game. Forget they were 39% on 3rd down (FYI ) we were 45%
PC is a defensive guy everything he does is for his defense. So we lose TOP his answer crank down the offense. Everything.


So of the three based on the first game, were after things started changing, only PC has any motive to change. and after the Rams game, he flat-out said it.

 

[LTH]

@ LTH

If you watch that 49 sec. clip I posted, and do not notice a stark difference, there is nothing I can do to help you.

I don't think he is debating the stark difference, He is just trying to debate whether PC had anything to do with the difference. I guess he prefers to think its Waldron or Wilson.

Lets look at both

Wilson, he went 18/23 78% complt, 4 tds, 254 yards and a 152.3 Passer rating, 11 ypa. Hmm yeah no reason for it to be Wilson at all those are MVP numbers

Waldron- well his offense provided MVP numbers for his Qb, an Rb at 91 yards and they won. Doe snot sound like it would be Waldron

PC- We lost TOP. One of PCs 2 biggest hot buttons, TOP, and TOs.

Forget the defense gave up a 9+ minute drive to start the game. Forget they were 39% on 3rd down (FYI ) we were 45%
PC is a defensive guy everything he does is for his defense. So we lose TOP his answer crank down the offense. Everything.


So of the three based on the first game, were after things started changing, only PC has any motive to change. and after the Rams game, he flat-out said it.

Your right I m not debating the differences even though I might not fully agree and your partially right about debating if PC had anything to do with it as I think the media is not fact based they are mostly opinion based off assumption... I don't think we have enough factual info to nail it down... I don't think stats are going to tell this story and I have hears nothing from Waldron, Carroll or Wilson to say other wise...

Just my take

LTH