Ken Norton Jr. Has Been Fired

[Terpdragon]

KNJ should have been fired at least 2 years ago. Good riddance!

 

[James in PA]

KNJ should have been fired at least 2 years ago. Good riddance!

We should have never hired him as DC in the first place. He held the same position with the Raiders prior to returning to Seattle and got fired from there too because he sucked.


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[Seahawk_Dan]

I would say something is getting done but it’s not. This is Pete window dressing.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I was hoping Waldron would be fired as well. Thinking they are wait and see with Wilson.

It felt like Waldron was finally getting thru to Russ on 3rd down conversions over hero-ball. That plus the O-Line and Penny's emergence.

I'm happy and sad at the same time about KNJ. Too many slow starts for the D and too few adjustments. I wish him well. Maybe another LB coaching gig. DC was somehow just a little more than he could master this time around.

I have mixed feelings on this firing. I mean, the problem for our team wasn't the defense. It just wasn't. They were middling at worst. And yet, for some reason, the only person everyone seemed to agree needed to go was Norton.

So this just seems like another meaningless coordinator firing to give the fans something to make them feel like we're doing things. At the same time, is it possible for us to upgrade? Of course it is but I don't know what I expect.

The issue for me is: Our defense was middling to decent for the most part. They didn't let other teams run up the score on us. They were very good in the Red Zone and on 4th down and while not quite as good on third downs, still upper half of the league on those as well.

This is the type of defense that a great offense takes to the playoffs and threatens to win playoff games with. Our defense gave up basically the same amount of points per game as the Cowboys, Chiefs, Cardinals, Packers, Niners, and Rams and less points than the Bengals, Eagles, Steelers, and Raiders. See a pattern here?

So what is our identity here? Because the media narrative around our team for the last half decade is that we are an offensive team. We're the Kansas City Chiefs! But the Chiefs just won a Super Bowl two years ago with a defense that performed about as well as the one we had this year and are back in the playoffs with one not much better than ours this year.

So who are we supposed to be?

 

[AgentDib]

I'll support whatever decision Pete wants to make because it's his defense. However, I'll continue to stick up for the defensive coaching as a whole this last season.

Relative to their cap hits
Underperformed: Wagner, Collier, Adams
Slightly underperformed: Nkemdiche, BBK, Mayowa, Webb
Neutral: Reid, Mone, Blair
Slightly overperformed: Robinson, Austin, Warrior, Muse, Neal, Hyder, Barton
Overperformed: Brown, Dunlap, Amadi, Jones, Taylor, Brooks, Woods
Hugely overperformed: Green, Ford, Diggs, Reed

When you have a bunch of players playing better than their paychecks would indicate that is due to strong coaching. You can quibble about whether that's scheme or motivation but at the end of the day the defense was providing good value on a cheap price tag despite a number of injuries.

From this list only Jamal Adams really stands out as the player that the coaching staff should have perhaps gotten more from and they got terrific value out of the rest of the secondary.

 

[chris98251]

This years scapegoat, last year it was Schotty, what is the constant here. It was a pretty good job of recovery with all our injuries this season to put a team on the field at all on defense and get them coached up.

Considering this was Petes bend don't break defense from the Hire of him and the biggest difference was Quinns attacking defensive line that helped us have a great defense.

 

[JGreen79]

I think the reason the defense was as good as it was is because of the talent. The reason they were so good in the red zone is because it really restricts what plays can be called defensively. A large part of the defensive issues is the coach setting up the players for failure.

 

[themunn]

I have mixed feelings on this firing. I mean, the problem for our team wasn't the defense. It just wasn't. They were middling at worst. And yet, for some reason, the only person everyone seemed to agree needed to go was Norton.

So this just seems like another meaningless coordinator firing to give the fans something to make them feel like we're doing things. At the same time, is it possible for us to upgrade? Of course it is but I don't know what I expect.

The issue for me is: Our defense was middling to decent for the most part. They didn't let other teams run up the score on us. They were very good in the Red Zone and on 4th down and while not quite as good on third downs, still upper half of the league on those as well.

This is the type of defense that a great offense takes to the playoffs and threatens to win playoff games with. Our defense gave up basically the same amount of points per game as the Cowboys, Chiefs, Cardinals, Packers, Niners, and Rams and less points than the Bengals, Eagles, Steelers, and Raiders. See a pattern here?

I think, having invested as much as we have in the defense over the 4 years that KNJ has been defensive coordinator (4 first round picks including 2022, 3 second round picks, 4 third round picks, never mind free agent signings - I'll stick the list at bottom of post), we should be expecting a lot more out of our defense. I think KNJ maybe got a pass last season because, despite starting off with worst defense in NFL history, they at least started to look competent in 2nd half of season. However, to do the same again this year was a step too far and the improvement from 2020 in 2021 that was needed wasn't there.

I don't think we have ever had an identity as an offensive team - maybe the media talks about it because of how good Wilson has been, but Pete Carroll is a defensive coach and his team philopophy is more 2012 than 2020 (despite 11 wins in 2012 and 2nd place finish to 12 wins in 2020 and division champion).

Investment in defense since 2018:
2 - Sheldon Richardson (trade)
3 - Rasheem Green
1 - LJ Collier
2 - Marquise Blaire
3 - Cody Barton
1 - Jordyn Brooks
2 - Darrell Taylor
3 - Jadaveon Clowney (trade)
2x1 + 1x3 - Jamal Adams (trade)

And those are all good players! Sure we overpaid for Richardson and Clowney on account that we didn't sign them thereafter but they are sitll good enough to be starters elsewhere in the league. Never mind that we also sent some late round capital for guys like Diggs & Dunlap who were on fairly chunky contracts also.

On the other hand, in same rounds we've drafted just Penny, Metcalf, Lewis and Eskridge on offense. When 75% of your day 1 & 2 picks go on defense for 4 years and it's still underperforming, something is going wrong somewhere.

 

[NJlargent]

Cool that answers who is this years scapegoat.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I have mixed feelings on this firing. I mean, the problem for our team wasn't the defense. It just wasn't. They were middling at worst. And yet, for some reason, the only person everyone seemed to agree needed to go was Norton.

You lost me right there. The defense was a very big issue for the team. It took them half a season to go from horrific to mediocre. When a player like Carlos Dunlap has to tell the staff they are using him wrong, thats a huge problem.

 

[NJlargent]

Cool that answers who is this years scapegoat.

 

[Sports Hernia]

This years scapegoat, last year it was Schotty, what is the constant here. It was a pretty good job of recovery with all our injuries this season to put a team on the field at all on defense and get them coached up.

Considering this was Petes bend don't break defense from the Hire of him and the biggest difference was Quinns attacking defensive line that helped us have a great defense.

Yep, while I’m not sad to see these guys let go, I think they are just rearranging the deck chairs on the good ship Seahawk.

It’s like the farmer that was married and divorced 6 times. At some point you have to point at the “constant”, the farmer, for the failed marriages. Despite all of the coordinator changes, most of which I supported, the same mistakes are being made.

This team is getting older and trending in the wrong direction. Your philosophy’s on both sides of the ball come from the head coach. I expect more years like this season. I would love to be proven wrong and have to eat a plate of crow.

 

[seabowl]

When we see the next DC have the D backs play 8 yards off the line of scrimmage on a 3rd and 2 or better yet leave some opposing wr’s completely uncovered then we’ll know whose D scheme it was. Pete is always so worried about getting beat deep that he’d rather the D give up loooong drives and burn them out by the start of the 4th quarter.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

All people have done is push for Norton to be fired, now that he will, people are still complaining. :irishdrinkers:

 

[Throwdown]

When we see the next DC have the D backs play 8 yards off the line of scrimmage on a 3rd and 2 or better yet leave some opposing wr’s completely uncovered then we’ll know whose D scheme it was. Pete is always so worried about getting beat deep that he’d rather the D give up loooong drives and burn them out by the start of the 4th quarter.

Scheming for a lack of confidence in Flowers was the main culprit of that. Flowers sucked and they knew it, Sidney wasn’t ready then. It sucked, still glad almost everyone involved in how bad the pass defense has been for years is getting fired or put on notice.

 

[mistaowen]

Overdue. Great man, tremendous LB coach, great motivator, at his best an average DC and at his worst one of the worst defenses of all time. Two straight years of spending 1/3 of the season looking like they're going to break every bad defensive record. Terrible DL production and win rates. LB's were highlighted as out of position quite a bit by Pete in the early games, not great for an LB coach. Spent 1/3 of the season playing Tre Flowers and gimping the scheme because of it.

I really hope Pete looks outside his network this time and brings in an excellent DC to run the show. There are a few names available, I am pretty neutral on Clint Hurtt.

 

[nwHawk]

It’ll be interesting to see how the scheme changes moving forward. Do they hire the DC with an eye for a new style or go back to Pete’s old elephant style?

Need a fresh voice in there. This team needs turnovers again. Need a leader with some vinegar.

 

[nwHawk]

I really don’t think Clint Hurtt is the right guy. Nice guy, funny, but not the right guy for what this team needs right now.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Would love to see them bring in a guy from the outside. But that doesn't mean that Hurtt wouldn't do a good job.
Also, does anyone actually think that Pete would bring in someone who does something DIFFERENT than his defensive philosophy? I doubt it. Hope to be wrong, because this team needs something fresh and new. Not just someone that will do everything the way Pete wants it done.

 

[James in PA]

It would be nice to get a fresh set of eyes in here. I have a feeling though it will be Hurtt.


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