PC and JS have been BRILLIANT

[hoxrox]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

 

[John63]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

So a lot of what you say is inaccurate. Wilson does not live or die by off script plays he just rarely has any other choice. For example This past season his supposed live or die got us to 12-4 and produced a QB rating of 105 with 11 of them over 90 so the whole not sustainable is not in accurate. Just to compare the supposed goat Brady had 11 above 90 as well, Josh Allen who someone mentioned at 9 above 90. So Guess all of their styles are not sustainable either. Also, of course no other QB does off script plays they are all on script (sarcasm off}). As to the rest well it simple the FACTS and comparisons to other top QBs show its wrong. AS to the run game lets remember Wilson was our 2nd leading rusher last year and only 170 yards behind Carson, and we went 12-4.

However, lets see

We were ranked 12th in rushing remember Wilson was 2nd on the team we avg 123 yards per game
Rodgers run game was ranked 8th, at 132 Guess he needs a strong run game to be successful and was the MVP
Mahomes had the 16th ranked at 112 yards per game just 11 less than us Guess he heeds a strong run game too.


Hmm once again I put this to people putting unrealistic expectations on Wilson that other top QBs don't have like needing a run game.

I will agree that All top QBs need some combination of a great run game or great defense. No QB has won an SB without one or the other both.


AS to the reached his ceiling maybe he has but you know what 105 Qb rating, 40 tds, 68.8 compt %, over 4k yards and one of only 2 QBs to be top 10 in all of those. Yeah if that's his ceiling we should all be very happy. BUt I some how doubt it is his ceiling.


Further, lets remember it was just 3 years ago Wilson got us to a 9-7 record with a bottom 10 defense, and 12th ranked rush game were Wilson was far an away our leading rusher by over 340 yards. In this year he account for over 95% of our TDs and over 80% of our total yards. So sorry his playing style which his the same as all mobile QBs, is sustainable with or without a run game, a run game he contributes to alot.

 

[Maelstrom787]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

So a lot of what you say is inaccurate. Wilson does not live or die by off script plays he just rarely has any other choice. For example This past season his supposed live or die got us to 12-4 and produced a QB rating of 105 with 11 of them over 90 so the whole not sustainable is not in accurate. Just to compare the supposed goat Brady had 11 above 90 as well, Josh Allen who someone mentioned at 9 above 90. So Guess all of their styles are not sustainable either. Also, of course no other QB does off script plays they are all on script (sarcasm off}). As to the rest well it simple the FACTS and comparisons to other top QBs show its wrong. AS to the run game lets remember Wilson was our 2nd leading rusher last year and only 170 yards behind Carson, and we went 12-4.

However, lets see

We were ranked 12th in rushing remember Wilson was 2nd on the team we avg 123 yards per game
Rodgers run game was ranked 8th, at 132 Guess he needs a strong run game to be successful and was the MVP
Mahomes had the 16th ranked at 112 yards per game just 11 less than us Guess he heeds a strong run game too.


Hmm once again I put this to people putting unrealistic expectations on Wilson that other top QBs don't have like needing a run game.

I will agree that All top QBs need some combination of a great run game or great defense. No QB has won an SB without one or the other both.


AS to the reached his ceiling maybe he has but you know what 105 Qb rating, 40 tds, 68.8 compt %, over 4k yards and one of only 2 QBs to be top 10 in all of those. Yeah if that's his ceiling we should all be very happy. BUt I some how doubt it is his ceiling.

Sorry, but you need to hold yourself to your own logic here. If no one can criticize Russ without explicit knowledge of the assignments, then you cannot declare that he doesn't go off-script often in neutral situations.

 

[pittpnthrs]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

 

[Maelstrom787]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

You're gonna sit there with a straight face and defend heroball as a whole as reproduceable and common, yet in the next sentence criticize looking for the deep pass?

C'mon, get it straight, man.

You wanna talk about playing to Russell's strength? It's the deep pass. Plain and simple. That's his bread and butter.

 

[chris98251]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

You're gonna sit there with a straight face and defend heroball as a whole as reproduceable and common, yet in the next sentence criticize looking for the deep pass?

C'mon, get it straight, man.

You wanna talk about playing to Russell's strength? It's the deep pass. Plain and simple. That's his bread and butter.

Yes he had a great deep ball, but if you take the bread away all you have is butter and it's a slippery slope, the two deep look took away the bread, to get it back you have to use a short and intermediate game which they didn't do.

 

[pittpnthrs]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

You're gonna sit there with a straight face and defend heroball as a whole as reproduceable and common, yet in the next sentence criticize looking for the deep pass?

C'mon, get it straight, man.

You wanna talk about playing to Russell's strength? It's the deep pass. Plain and simple. That's his bread and butter.

Come on. You and everybody else knows that Pete has always looked for the homerun ball. My point is that when its not working and not there, another plan needs to be put in place. Last season when the offense started to sputter because of the two deep coverage, there was no back up plan. Was that on Pete or Schotty? I'm betting Pete because of his history of always going to it. Philosophical differences between those two is right. Cripes, even Metcalf (who's numbers blossomed because of it) knew a change needed to be made.

Its going to be frustrating to watch Carroll step all over Waldrons plans, but its going to happen. Make no mistake about that.

 

[John63]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

GREAT post spot on FYI Wilson leads the league in 4th qtr/ot comeback wins since he came in the league. Remember that is the way PC has said he wants t play, run the ball, throw long, keep i close and win in the end, Very FEW QBs could have the kind of successes Wilson has had with that type of thinking.

 

[chris98251]

So you think those drafts are why they contend annually? Its Russ. Take him out of the equation and Seattle is a 4 win team. Make no mistake about it, the FO has drafted pretty lousy for a long time now.

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

GREAT post spot on FYI Wilson leads the league in 4th qtr/ot comeback wins since he came in the league. Remember that is the way PC has said he wants t play, run the ball, throw long, keep i close and win in the end, Very FEW QBs could have the kind of successes Wilson has had with that type of thinking.

It works until it doesn't and teams adjust, you have to counter, Pete didn't and we will see if we ever do this season.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

You're gonna sit there with a straight face and defend heroball as a whole as reproduceable and common, yet in the next sentence criticize looking for the deep pass?

C'mon, get it straight, man.

You wanna talk about playing to Russell's strength? It's the deep pass. Plain and simple. That's his bread and butter.

Come on. You and everybody else knows that Pete has always looked for the homerun ball. My point is that when its not working and not there, another plan needs to be put in place. Last season when the offense started to sputter because of the two deep coverage, there was no back up plan. Was that on Pete or Schotty? I'm betting Pete because of his history of always going to it. Philosophical differences between those two is right. Cripes, even Metcalf (who's numbers blossomed because of it) knew a change needed to be made.

Its going to be frustrating to watch Carroll step all over Waldrons plans, but its going to happen. Make no mistake about that.

You're missing the point.

You can't defend heroball as a reproduceable method of football while criticizing a predisposition for deep passing as the opposite. It doesn't make sense.

Regardless, let's not act like there wasn't a ton of mesh concepts and open tight ends in the intermediate range last season that were rarely thrown to, because the all-22 shows different. It isn't a bunch of 4 verts.

My main criticism would be not pivoting to a more balanced attack to get the chains moving with the run game, because Russ wasn't taking the short stuff. He never has. Whether that's due to instruction or his own predisposition for the deep ball is up to debate, but with Schotty calling the plays, I doubt he was explicitly told not to take what he's given.

 

[BASF]

It's true they haven't drafted well since McCloughan left, but it is not with certainty they would be a losing team without Russ. Can you imagine what they could do with the roster if we had a Josh Allen, for example, and his rookie contract?

The coaches know what they have in Russ. And that is player in his prime, who is very good, but who may have reached his ceiling? And costs the team a ton, to boot.

His style of play has not been sustainable for an entire season. The off-schedule, backyard, scramble-drill type of play he lives or dies on, has diminishing returns. The moon ball we all love, apparently can be taken away by good NFL defenses. He is no longer a scary read-option threat. He needs strong run game support in order to be successful. RBs get hurt? We're toast. Two thousand plus yard receivers during the regular season? Awesome. But it just didn't mean much in the playoffs, did it?

That said, it is in the best interest of the FO to make the most of what they got. And that is to build a TEAM around Russ that can be competitive in this league. Build a balanced team that won't give up 30+ points per game, so they aren't overly dependent on Russ to score 30+ points to win every game. Coaches know that is not sustainable for an entire season.

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

Yeah the home run ball can be defended against. Maybe Pete and his lackeys should quit looking for it all the time.

No, they dont run the read option anymore. It was getting Russ killed. Remember the season Russ had that bad ankle and was no threat to run and they still ran the read option? Good times.

Every team needs some semblance of a run game. Seattle didnt have one single 100 yard rusher last season and they still won 12 games. Was that more due to Russ or the run game?

Hawks could have had 4 1000 yard receivers and 2 1000 yard rushers and they still would have lost that playoff game with the Rams because the game plan was pathetic. The team doesnt have enough talent anymore to overcome Carrolls coaching gaffes. Therein lies the problem. Big picture is to not expect better results going forward when the team will never be able to recoup the needed talent to trump Pete's coaching deficiencies. Early round playoff exits is the ceiling for this team.

You're gonna sit there with a straight face and defend heroball as a whole as reproduceable and common, yet in the next sentence criticize looking for the deep pass?

C'mon, get it straight, man.

You wanna talk about playing to Russell's strength? It's the deep pass. Plain and simple. That's his bread and butter.

Yes he had a great deep ball, but if you take the bread away all you have is butter and it's a slippery slope, the two deep look took away the bread, to get it back you have to use a short and intermediate game which they didn't do.

The plays were called and Russ ignored those receivers even if they were open.

 

[Ad Hawk]

You can't defend heroball as a reproduceable method of football while criticizing a predisposition for deep passing as the opposite. It doesn't make sense.

I don't think he was defending it as sustainable; I think he left out the word "not" in that sentence. It has happened a bunch over the years but it is NOT sustainable. :2thumbs:

 

[ducks41468]

This team plays the exact same way every season, wins the exact same way, loses the exact same way, makes the same mistakes, etc, and the fans have split off into the same two unyielding factions. It's just boring at this point.

 

[KiwiHawk]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

Not really though. Usually the 4th quarter heroics include quick tempo and aggressiveness that the other 3 quarters didnt have because its the offense going away from Petes schemes. Fans have complained for years as to why the offense wasnt ran that way from the start of the game. Its mind boggling actually.

 

[BASF]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

Not really though. Usually the 4th quarter heroics include quick tempo and aggressiveness that the other 3 quarters didnt have because its the offense going away from Petes schemes. Fans have complained for years as to why the offense wasnt ran that way from the start of the game. Its mind boggling actually.

This is not rhetorical, but tell me how many teams since the merger were able to play that way for four quarters game in and game out and were successful with it for more than three seasons? Remember to use your definition of success as making the championship game for your answer.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

Not really though. Usually the 4th quarter heroics include quick tempo and aggressiveness that the other 3 quarters didnt have because its the offense going away from Petes schemes. Fans have complained for years as to why the offense wasnt ran that way from the start of the game. Its mind boggling actually.

1. This is a case of the eye test lying to you regarding the tempo. Seattle is the 28th fastest team when trailing by 7+ points, taking only about a second less per play than their total average, according to 2020 data.

2. Running an offense up-tempo constantly is a great way to get your defense absolutely murdered by putting them on the field for 40 minutes a game. Ask Chip Kelly.

Look at the data. It's on Football Outsiders. The slower-paced teams are easily the more successful group. Seattle is 19th fastest, by the way - very close to average.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Quick tempo and aggressiveness have nothing to do with getting behind on the scoreboard. You can have the most sluggish offense in the NFL and take every second of the play clock every single down, and still complete drives.

There is no NFL score for speed, only for touchdowns and field goals, safeties and extra points. If your drive ends in the end zone, it doesn't matter how you got there. Whether you pass, run, pass slowly, walk, crawl, whatever. In fact, if you are facing a high-powered offense, one good way to handle them is to keep your own offense on the field so they have fewer opportunities to score over the course of the game.

If we completed our drives and got scores earlier in the game, there is no need for 4th-quarter heroics, at any pace. That's the bottom line. When Wilson takes a sack where he could have thrown the ball away, that can kill a drive. So can bad rushing plays - I'm not singling anyone out. But we don't need Russell queuing up the circus music and scrambling around every play looking for the rainbow shot when he could get the first down.

I've seen tons of plays where Wilson refuses the short routes looking for the home-run. I've seen Wilson throw the ball away or take a sack rather than trusting his receivers to make catches. I've seen Wilson back his ability to escape and turn a 5-yard sack into a 22-yard sack. I've seen him running around for 8 seconds when every second represents a chance one of the OL will be flagged for holding. Drive killers.

If that was Schottenheimer, then that's done and we can move on. If it's Wilson, then we still have a problem. We'll see if Waldron can sort it out.

Don't get me wrong - I've seen many stupid running plays as well, from the play itself to the player running it to the underlying concept of what they were trying to do. As just one example you don't rush Penny or Dallas into a stacked box because it never, ever going to work, much less 2 plays in a row to see if they might not be expecting it. Hopefully a more modern offense can get those guys into space where they can actually flash.

As good as Wilson is, and as heroic as he is in the 4th quarter, the fact is some of those comebacks happened because there was a problem scoring earlier in the game - whether by pass, run, whatever - and that has to be addressed.

Before you throw stones, climb off your Wilson bandwagon for just a moment and look at what I actually said - all of it is true, and none of it suggests Wilson is not a great QB, because he is. However, the other side of the coin is not scoring early, and that does need to be addressed.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

Not really though. Usually the 4th quarter heroics include quick tempo and aggressiveness that the other 3 quarters didnt have because its the offense going away from Petes schemes. Fans have complained for years as to why the offense wasnt ran that way from the start of the game. Its mind boggling actually.

This is not rhetorical, but tell me how many teams since the merger were able to play that way for four quarters game in and game out and were successful with it for more than three seasons? Remember to use your definition of success as making the championship game for your answer.

Most teams run their offense with a sense of urgency to produce points I would say. Pete seems to run his more so with clock management in mind. I dont know of any other team in the NFL that runs the clock down to 1 before the snap. When I talk about being aggressive and up tempo, i'm not referring to a 2 minute drill.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I know its easy to do as its been so common place, but how do fans forget about Wilsons history of heroics in the 4th quarter, pulling the teams fat out of the fryer? He's done it for years now. Its an innate talent that cant be taught. Just a quality about Russ I though everybody should be reminded of. No, its sustainable all the time, but its happened a bunch over the years.

You can look at it as 4th-quarter heroics, or you can wonder where that performance was in the other 3 quarters. There are two sides to that coin.

Not really though. Usually the 4th quarter heroics include quick tempo and aggressiveness that the other 3 quarters didnt have because its the offense going away from Petes schemes. Fans have complained for years as to why the offense wasnt ran that way from the start of the game. Its mind boggling actually.

1. This is a case of the eye test lying to you regarding the tempo. Seattle is the 28th fastest team when trailing by 7+ points, taking only about a second less per play than their total average, according to 2020 data.

2. Running an offense up-tempo constantly is a great way to get your defense absolutely murdered by putting them on the field for 40 minutes a game. Ask Chip Kelly.

Look at the data. It's on Football Outsiders. The slower-paced teams are easily the more successful group. Seattle is 19th fastest, by the way - very close to average.

I guess my eye test of a slow plodding, predictable, clock eating offense is skewed. Must be another reason why Wilson leads or is tied with the most 4th quarter comebacks in his NFL tenure.