Pro Football Reference's Approximate Value rating

[RiverDog]

Good thread, and a lot of good comments dusting off plenty of cob webs inside my memory banks. I enjoyed reading it.

A couple of things about Joe Nash: For years, Knox brought in players with the intention of upgrading the position, but Joe kept beating them out. Also, Nash was really good at blocking XP's/FG attempts. I can remember one game, vs. Cincy on MNF, where Nash blocked a last second attempt, his second of the game, sealing a Seahawks win, and Sam Wyche commenting afterward that it looked like a volleyball game out there.

Nash deserves to be in the ROH.

 

[Mick063]

To Erebus,

The all time roster must include the pair of cornerbacks Dwayne Harper and Patrick Hunter.

In my opinion, the best cornerback tandem prior to the LOB. Throw in John Harris at safety and you have one hell of a good secondary. Which it was. I would definitely take Harper over Shawn Springs or Dave Brown. Not just the most under rated Seattle corner. Perhaps the most under rated corner ever. He was an outstanding corner that more than held his own against the likes of Dan Fouts and John Elway.

Dave Brown was good, but Shawn Springs reminds me of Patrick Peterson. All name and hype (not to mention his pedigree as his father was a Dallas Cowboy in their glory years......a constant storyline for the national media to sell), but nothing much to show on the field. Another case of 1st round pick status and draft day hype overshadowing actual play on the field.

 

[Erebus]

To Erebus,

The all time roster must include the pair of cornerbacks Dwayne Harper and Patrick Hunter.

In my opinion, the best cornerback tandem prior to the LOB. Throw in John Harris at safety and you have one hell of a good secondary. Which it was. I would definitely take Harper over Shawn Springs or Dave Brown. Not just the most under rated Seattle corner. Perhaps the most under rated corner ever. He was an outstanding corner that more than held his own against the likes of Dan Fouts and John Elway.

Dave Brown was good, but Shawn Springs reminds me of Patrick Peterson. All name and hype (not to mention his pedigree as his father was a Dallas Cowboy in their glory years......a constant storyline for the national media to sell), but nothing much to show on the field. Another case of 1st round pick status and draft day hype overshadowing actual play on the field.

I appreciate the feedback. However, this roster is based on PFR's approximate value, and according to that, Harper and Hunter just don't quite measure up to Springs or Brown. Harper's highest AV was 9 (twice, 91-92) with a Seahawk-career total of 39. Hunter's career high was 8, accomplished three times (90-92) with a Seahawk-career total of 48. If I were building a real all time roster, they would definitely get more consideration over Shawn Springs and Darryl Williams. Dave Brown blows them all away.

Like I said earlier, I don't know how fair or accurate these ratings are, so you may have a valid point.

 

[Mick063]

To Erebus,

The all time roster must include the pair of cornerbacks Dwayne Harper and Patrick Hunter.

In my opinion, the best cornerback tandem prior to the LOB. Throw in John Harris at safety and you have one hell of a good secondary. Which it was. I would definitely take Harper over Shawn Springs or Dave Brown. Not just the most under rated Seattle corner. Perhaps the most under rated corner ever. He was an outstanding corner that more than held his own against the likes of Dan Fouts and John Elway.

Dave Brown was good, but Shawn Springs reminds me of Patrick Peterson. All name and hype (not to mention his pedigree as his father was a Dallas Cowboy in their glory years......a constant storyline for the national media to sell), but nothing much to show on the field. Another case of 1st round pick status and draft day hype overshadowing actual play on the field.

I appreciate the feedback. However, this roster is based on PFR's approximate value, and according to that, Harper and Hunter just don't quite measure up to Springs or Brown. Harper's highest AV was 9 (twice, 91-92) with a Seahawk-career total of 39. Hunter's career high was 8, accomplished three times (90-92) with a Seahawk-career total of 48. If I were building a real all time roster, they would definitely get more consideration over Shawn Springs and Darryl Williams. Dave Brown blows them all away.

Like I said earlier, I don't know how fair or accurate these ratings are, so you may have a valid point.

They were playing with an offense that set the NFL record for least points scored in a 16 game season. At that time, the Seattle defense was widely considered one of the best in the league and some considered it the very best. That doesn't get done without a great secondary. They were on the field about 2-4 opponent possessions per game more than a typical defense. I don't need to go further with an intelligent poster like yourself to explain the implications of that.

This is eye test by a credible lifelong football fan that has both played and coached. This was also in the era of Dan Fouts, John Elway, Ken Anderson, Dan Marino, and Jim Kelley in the AFC alone. That secondary was absolutely Seattle's best until the LOB came along.

Finally, there is no form of number crunching that will ever make me believe that Shawn Springs was a great cornerback. I wonder if his combine cone drill numbers are available. Without seeing them, I'll bet they are very bad for his position. At least that it was it looked like on game day.

 

[45Hawker]

Darryl Williams played safety - a big hitter and pro-bowler we picked up in free agency.

I was at this game when he destroyed Rickey Dudley of the hated Raiders:

[youtube]XcZZlMKL5xw[/youtube]

I have a framed photo of that hit that my wife ordered from the Seattle Times back then. If I get time, I'll scan and post.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

AV I believe is estimated relative to the player's position to the other player's around the league at the same position.

I think they also compile historical data to get a ceiling.

But Joe Nash probably had the best year out of any DT in '84, probably the history of the NFL at the time, and it probably still ranks high as one of the best statisical seasons of any DT in the 30 years since that year.

For Alexander even though he had 1800 yards, 28 TDs... I believe Tiki Barber and Tomilison also had extraordinary years in 2005... but the compiled data of RBs had RBs flirt with 2000 yard seasons and I think that's why Alexander was only to pull a high of 17 despite his great 2005 season.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Now, for my all time roster based on AV. More weight is given to a single-season high AV than career total. In parentheses are their single-season high as a Seahawk and their Seahawk-career total. Numbers for 2014 aren't in yet, so that's going to hurt current players.

Quarterbacks
Jim Zorn (17, 85) - his 17 AV in both 1978 and 1979 are the two highest in franchise history amongst QBs.
Russell Wilson (16, 32) - his 16 in both 2012 and 2013 rank 3rd and 4th all time in Seahawks history for QBs.
Matt Hasselbeck (15, 93)

.

I've been trying to tell you young ones from day one that Jim Zorn was the best QB the Seahawks ever had and that Wilson reminds me of Jim Zorn. Guess now you won't look as hard at just career stats. He did this on an expansion team when expansion teams really REALLY sucked.

 

[scutterhawk]

Yeah, but he was nothing without Crosby, Stills, & Young though.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Kenny Easley 1984

From the OP's first post: HINT, he's not in the ring of honor. :roll:

 

[olyfan63]

Nash did have a great year that year. It seemed like in later years he must have been injured more, or something. He just didn't seem to rise to anywhere close to that level again.