Real culprit of our offense?

[keasley45]

How our OC was hired:

The Seahawks reached out to him

“I’ve always just respected him from afar or from the opposite sideline,’’ Waldron said. “I’ve never had a chance to really interact with them before Seattle reached out to start this interview process. So that was really the way this thing started.’’

Waldron said he and Carroll talked remotely for several days before the job offer arrived.

“There were a lot of phone calls, a lot of FaceTime, Zoom elements to this process with him,” he said. “Over the course of several days we spoke, had some great conversations, starting with philosophy, starting with my history and really taking it all the way through things that he believed in. And at the end of this thing, really just making sure that we were aligned in how we view the game, how we view things moving forward.’’

Waldron said one thing that stood out is that he didn’t feel as if he was having to make “a sales pitch’’ to get the job. That instead, he felt like he and Carroll were just talking and realizing how much of their views meshed.

“There was so much philosophical alignment between he and I, going back to just that starting point of saying ‘Hey, it’s all about the ball.’ Well, lo behold, what’s his starting point? … So many of those things were just naturally in alignment,” he said.

LOL, what a way to hire an OC,

That, to me, tells me Pete just wanted a toady to hire and do what he wanted. Couldn't hire an experienced OC, everyone in the league is on to him and that they'd never be allowed to flex, so you just snag a young position coach that was never gonna be brought up in talks to be an OC anywhere else. Presto, you technically have an OC now.

you was there any doubt. PC will never hire anyone who will stray to far form what he wants

Right... because throwing the ball in futility in OT against a team that was out Peteballing us is Pete's way.

Or wait, no. Throwing the ball 40 times with 2 picks in the endzone when you were rushing for over 4 ypc is Pete's bidding.

Or having the shortest average drive duration ( because it's all tempo tempo tempo and no running, is what Pete wants.

Or the worst 3rd down conversion percentage from your QB in the league

ALLLL Hallmarks of a PC team and one where the OC is doing EXACTLY what Pete wants.

 

[LTH]

How our OC was hired:



LOL, what a way to hire an OC,

That, to me, tells me Pete just wanted a toady to hire and do what he wanted. Couldn't hire an experienced OC, everyone in the league is on to him and that they'd never be allowed to flex, so you just snag a young position coach that was never gonna be brought up in talks to be an OC anywhere else. Presto, you technically have an OC now.

you was there any doubt. PC will never hire anyone who will stray to far form what he wants

Right... because throwing the ball in futility in OT against a team that was out Peteballing us is Pete's way.

Or wait, no. Throwing the ball 40 times with 2 picks in the endzone when you were rushing for over 4 ypc is Pete's bidding.

Or having the shortest average drive duration ( because it's all tempo tempo tempo and no running, is what Pete wants.

Or the worst 3rd down conversion percentage from your QB in the league

ALLLL Hallmarks of a PC team and one where the OC is doing EXACTLY what Pete wants.

LMAO!!! :34853_doh:

 

[hawks85]

The problem isn't Waldron, it's Wilson. Wilson isn't a west coast QB at all. West Coast QB's in a West Coast offense stay in the god damn pocket. As soon as the ball is hiked Wilson starts dropping back 20 yards and starts running around and it screws up the entire play. It's always been Wilson. I've said it a thousand million times, Wilson isn't as good as people tend to think he is and no one will convince me otherwise. Petey boy isn't off the hook either that old ass dude just needs to retire because Pete is holding everyone down.

 

[toffee]

How our OC was hired:



LOL, what a way to hire an OC,

That, to me, tells me Pete just wanted a toady to hire and do what he wanted. Couldn't hire an experienced OC, everyone in the league is on to him and that they'd never be allowed to flex, so you just snag a young position coach that was never gonna be brought up in talks to be an OC anywhere else. Presto, you technically have an OC now.

you was there any doubt. PC will never hire anyone who will stray to far form what he wants

Right... because throwing the ball in futility in OT against a team that was out Peteballing us is Pete's way.

Or wait, no. Throwing the ball 40 times with 2 picks in the endzone when you were rushing for over 4 ypc is Pete's bidding.

Or having the shortest average drive duration ( because it's all tempo tempo tempo and no running, is what Pete wants.

Or the worst 3rd down conversion percentage from your QB in the league

ALLLL Hallmarks of a PC team and one where the OC is doing EXACTLY what Pete wants.

You do know that PeteBall is well hated and Russ is well loved?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[Somos doces]

The problem isn't Waldron, it's Wilson. Wilson isn't a west coast QB at all. West Coast QB's in a West Coast offense stay in the god damn pocket. As soon as the ball is hiked Wilson starts dropping back 20 yards and starts running around and it screws up the entire play. It's always been Wilson. I've said it a thousand million times, Wilson isn't as good as people tend to think he is and no one will convince me otherwise. Petey boy isn't off the hook either that old ass dude just needs to retire because Pete is holding everyone down.

Lots of culprits have been mentioned throughout this thread, but I don't believe the issues can be blamed completely on the best quarterback Seahawks fans have been fortunate enough to root for. I do agree that Wilson's dropback predilections have seldom synced up with the way his O-lines have blocked. This is a huge issue, but as I see it, one that can neither be blamed exclusively on the QB nor the line; likely due (as you note) to sub-par coaching, they just have never played well together. Perhaps someday that will change.

 

[hawks85]

The problem isn't Waldron, it's Wilson. Wilson isn't a west coast QB at all. West Coast QB's in a West Coast offense stay in the god damn pocket. As soon as the ball is hiked Wilson starts dropping back 20 yards and starts running around and it screws up the entire play. It's always been Wilson. I've said it a thousand million times, Wilson isn't as good as people tend to think he is and no one will convince me otherwise. Petey boy isn't off the hook either that old ass dude just needs to retire because Pete is holding everyone down.

Lots of culprits have been mentioned throughout this thread, but I don't believe the issues can be blamed completely on the best quarterback Seahawks fans have been fortunate enough to root for. I do agree that Wilson's dropback predilections have seldom synced up with the way his O-lines have blocked. This is a huge issue, but as I see it, one that can neither be blamed exclusively on the QB nor the line; likely due (as you note) to sub-par coaching, they just have never played well together. Perhaps someday that will change.

Put a 40 plus year old Brady as our QB and I bet we have little to zero issues on offense. Hell I'll even take Josh Allen as QB and we would have a better looking offense. I have never been a fan of Wilson. He's plays QB like he's playing backyard football and that's the reason in my eyes he's not good and the reason why this offense is garbage.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:yawn:

 

[hawkfan68]

Our Offensive Line is not good enough to hold up for the over use of deep balls, NO Offense is.
We don't have a decent Running attack (injuries).
Inconsistency with the intermediate, & short game strategies.
Instead of attacking our opponents weaknesses with quick strikes, we allow them to disrupt/dictate the flow & timing of our Offensive schemes, and again, "No Offense" can sustain, or hold up under those circumstances.
I love Russ' deep passes as much as the next guy, but NOT if it's being over used, and without an even mediocre Run game to "Ballance", & help set up the long developing plays, you become a "One Trick Pony".
Wilson is a fantastic Quarterback, but he has his limitations....Take away his targets & he and other great Quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes, become beatable.
Pete does NOT have the kind of RB's in the stable to play "Pete Ball", and we're NOT seeing enough Tight End play to compensate for the lack of having a 'Bruiser Back'.

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

 

[keasley45]

What is needed to make our offense go is simple. Its been talked about over and over again in threads like

https://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176504

By hall of fame QB's that basically do all the work of debunking the plays that look like sacks or poor execution and are actually Russ not executing himself

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ku ... &FORM=VIRE

In that piece, Kurt Warner says without question that the only way for the Seahawks to win a championship again is for Russ to learn how to read defenses and make the easy play. And that Russ has a propensity for trying to constantly make the big play.

Folks, whats wrong with the team isnt complex. its simple. If you dont want to believe it, that's fine. But its rediculous to keep pushing conspiracies when theres literally mountains of evidence that Russ doesnt read plays well and that THAT contributes more than anything else to the offense's futility.

His play lost us the Giants game, and the Rams playoff game without a doubt. And his inability to do those things that have become obvious didnt just start happening. He's NEVER been able to do them . His magic starts when he gives up on the play and creates on his own. KURT WANRNER AND OTHERS HAVE SAID AS MUCH. But i guess HOF credentials dont qualify one to look at our offense, specifically our QB and assess how he's performing.

The sad thing is that the criticism that he's offering is the kind youd expect to give a 2nd or 3rd year pro. Russ is in year 10.

So yeah. Look at Warner's piece that breaks down critical plays that might have won us that game and tell me how a good, but not necessarily great QB couldnt have done what was needed. Russ isnt doing the SIMPLE things.

 

[keasley45]

Our Offensive Line is not good enough to hold up for the over use of deep balls, NO Offense is.
We don't have a decent Running attack (injuries).
Inconsistency with the intermediate, & short game strategies.
Instead of attacking our opponents weaknesses with quick strikes, we allow them to disrupt/dictate the flow & timing of our Offensive schemes, and again, "No Offense" can sustain, or hold up under those circumstances.
I love Russ' deep passes as much as the next guy, but NOT if it's being over used, and without an even mediocre Run game to "Ballance", & help set up the long developing plays, you become a "One Trick Pony".
Wilson is a fantastic Quarterback, but he has his limitations....Take away his targets & he and other great Quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes, become beatable.
Pete does NOT have the kind of RB's in the stable to play "Pete Ball", and we're NOT seeing enough Tight End play to compensate for the lack of having a 'Bruiser Back'.

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

 

[hawkfan68]

Our Offensive Line is not good enough to hold up for the over use of deep balls, NO Offense is.
We don't have a decent Running attack (injuries).
Inconsistency with the intermediate, & short game strategies.
Instead of attacking our opponents weaknesses with quick strikes, we allow them to disrupt/dictate the flow & timing of our Offensive schemes, and again, "No Offense" can sustain, or hold up under those circumstances.
I love Russ' deep passes as much as the next guy, but NOT if it's being over used, and without an even mediocre Run game to "Ballance", & help set up the long developing plays, you become a "One Trick Pony".
Wilson is a fantastic Quarterback, but he has his limitations....Take away his targets & he and other great Quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes, become beatable.
Pete does NOT have the kind of RB's in the stable to play "Pete Ball", and we're NOT seeing enough Tight End play to compensate for the lack of having a 'Bruiser Back'.

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done.

When Pete talks about the explosive plays, the underlying context is he only likes deep shots when they come from play action..........and play action only works when you establish the run game.

And he knows that's what Russell does well, play action off the run game.

Now does Russell agree with that? Doesn't seem like he does, he wants the offense to run through him, and we've seen that approach doesn't work very well when Russell throws it 40 times a game.

 

[John63]

Our Offensive Line is not good enough to hold up for the over use of deep balls, NO Offense is.
We don't have a decent Running attack (injuries).
Inconsistency with the intermediate, & short game strategies.
Instead of attacking our opponents weaknesses with quick strikes, we allow them to disrupt/dictate the flow & timing of our Offensive schemes, and again, "No Offense" can sustain, or hold up under those circumstances.
I love Russ' deep passes as much as the next guy, but NOT if it's being over used, and without an even mediocre Run game to "Ballance", & help set up the long developing plays, you become a "One Trick Pony".
Wilson is a fantastic Quarterback, but he has his limitations....Take away his targets & he and other great Quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes, become beatable.
Pete does NOT have the kind of RB's in the stable to play "Pete Ball", and we're NOT seeing enough Tight End play to compensate for the lack of having a 'Bruiser Back'.

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

THIS^^^

 

[hoxrox]

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

Pete's a player's coach. Maybe Russ needs someone like Arians who will call him out publicly.

With DK, Pete said he's had multiple conversations with him. We will see if DK finally gets it.

 

[keasley45]

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

Pete's a player's coach. Maybe Russ needs someone like Arians who will call him out publicly.

With DK, Pete said he's had multiple conversations with him. We will see if DK finally gets it.

Arians wouldn't tolerate Russ, nor do I think he would have the time to instill skills in him as a 10yr pro that have never existed. QBs with deficiencies like Russ's usually don't last in this league. Russ has because he's had the physical ability to compensate for his deficiencies and stepped into a system where his coach saw who he was and worked with what he could do to create a complimentrary team approach to winning. And it yielded a championship. Pete then hired Scjottenheimer when it looked as though Bevell might not be strong enough to get Wilson to where he needed to be. That lasted until Russ showed again little improvement in awareness or an ability to diagnose coverage. So enter OC three, who was brought in to 'scheme' around wilson's shortcomings, but he's a Russ guy. Waldron and Russ are the ones strategizing in game. So that's not going tonwork unless Pete steps in and mandates a different kind of play.

But you tell me how you get a 10yr pro to diagnose basic coverages? The question in and of itself is backwards. It doesn't happen.

 

[LTH]

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

THIS^^^

Yes it is Pete's responsibility to fix this situation no question about that. but what we don't know is how he is approaching this situation. he is NOT saying... It could be that he has sat down with Russ several times and Russ is not listening to him ... It could be that after this season he might decide to trade Russ because he can't work it out... There is a HUGE misconception on this board that Carroll is not approaching things appropriately... we just don't know at this point but if you look at it from Carroll's point of view he has every reason to want this situation to work out and the way it looks is that he gave the LRC scenario a chance to work and it's not working... I think the other HUGE misconception of this board is that Carroll is micromanaging this team to it's detriment... there is no evidence to suggest that in fact the evidence suggest the complete opposite...


LTH

 

[keasley45]

I agree with the quoted post. There's a saying that you keep doing things until they stop you. Well I've seen plays that work - short pass to Dissly early in the game against the Packers which netted a first down. Then Dissly was never seen from again. What the Seahawk current offense strategy seems to be is if it works then don't do it again unless it's a deep ball in double/triple coverage. Then do it as much as possible.


I think there was a video of RW in the offseason working out with Drew Brees. In that video all he was doing was chucking deep balls. That video was very concerning to me and now there's a clearer picture with how things have folded thus far this season. I think both Pete and Russ are infatuated with the deep ball. For one it's an "explosive" play when it works. The problem is they've been doing this for the past 10 years. Now the teams have adjusted. Russ and Pete need to do the same.

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

THIS^^^

What qb that has come into the league, poor at reading basic defenses to the degree he misses pretty constantky the way Russ does and all of a sudden turns it around? Russ has lasted as long as he has because he's had Pete. Usually if a qb can't do what Russ cant, he's out of the league or a PT starter. Russ has overcome himself with his legs, an all world gifted arm, and grit and determination. And Pete 'fixed' the unfixable by surrounding the dude with a all time great defense and run game. Andnthe fix worked so well, we went to 2 superbowls. Now Russ doesn't want Pete's medicine and wants to go it alone, but he is still who he is, and slower, and now he can't cover the mistakes.

Russ's shortcomings are fundamental and ingrained and asking why Pete can't fix him or thinking a better coach or coordinator is the issue is like the parents of a college art student struggling with physics 1, blaming his professor and proclaiming that if a Stephen Hawking type could work with him he'd figure it out. Russ isn't built for it. He can't do the basic reads consistently.

He doesn't get it now and never has. Nor has he ever had to because when in the past if he missed read one, and read two, and the pocket was now collapsing, he'd spin out of the pocket , scramble for 3 more seconds and find a wr somewhere breaking open. Or... if he'd consistently miss reads and take sacks or the passing game would stall, the running game would keep defenses honest and we'd dial up a timely PA bomb and boom. Struggle forgotten. And in both of the above cases, Russ himself looks like they guy who did something with nothing.

Russ has never been anything other than what he is now. Only difference is he was quicker and faster before.

 

[keasley45]

Pete has been on recorded now for at least 2 years expressing his desire for the deep chunks to stop and the easy passes to be taken.

The 'Pete likes the explosive plays' thing gets pedaled a ton. And its true, he's said it a lot and i think he 100% means it. Its a valid approach. But what gets conflated is a philosophy vs a strategy and execution, play to play. Because Pete says he likes the explosive plays and we see Russ mostly making his living off of explosive plays, folks tend to think, well thats what he wants because thats whats being done. But thats not the whole story because the deep ball is happening exclusively because the reads that would complete other passes to intermediate routes arent being made. So the player executing the play is giving us deep bomb or short check down or scramble play with a sometimes magical finish. And whats missing are all of the other plays that would more consistently move the chains.

In other words, on occassion we see the offense Pete conceptually wants. But its not the offense he wants in practice because its plainly obvious that its not being executed.

And our running game has season over season been as effective (albeit in a RB by committee approach) as during our superbowl winning season. We dont need one bruising back. we need consistent yards per carry, which we get. We just dont run enough to make it even more effective.

Why has this issue not been corrected by Pete? If Russ is not executing the plays properly, as a coach it's Pete's responsibility to correct the issue. He hasn't done so. One could surmise that Russ is playing the way that Pete has directed him to do so based off that. This is both a Pete and Russ issue. Not just a Russ issue as you are trying to make it out to be. . I don't believe Russ is dunce enough to go against the desire of his coach if the coach sits and talks to him about it. If Pete hasn't done that, then he's really not doing the job he's paid to do. It's Pete's responsibility of how the team performs overall and at 3-6 its performance is subpar.

If he wants to be a head coach of the team, then coach the team. Have the hard conversations with his key players. Week in week out it's the same old stuff, therefore there isn't any change. That's on Pete and the coaches.

THIS^^^

Yes it is Pete's responsibility to fix this situation no question about that. but what we don't know is how he is approaching this situation. he is NOT saying... It could be that he has sat down with Russ several times and Russ is not listening to him ... It could be that after this season he might decide to trade Russ because he can't work it out... There is a HUGE misconception on this board that Carroll is not approaching things appropriately... we just don't know at this point but if you look at it from Carroll's point of view he has every reason to want this situation to work out and the way it looks is that he gave the LRC scenario a chance to work and it's not working... I think the other HUGE misconception of this board is that Carroll is micromanaging this team to it's detriment... there is no evidence to suggest that in fact the evidence suggest the complete opposite...


LTH

Fix 1
Pete built a system around Russ to address his issues and like every other team, had an OC working with his QB to address things like MAKING SIMPLE READS.

Fix 2
Pete brought in a new OC who was harder nosed to get to Russ and the result at the end of season 3 was Russ not being able to solve cover 2...

Fix 3
Pete brings in OC 3, cosigned by Russ, because he seems to come from a system that specializes in smoke and mirrors and disguising basic routes with a myriad different looks. Why? Because if your 9 yr vet qb still can't read defenses and everybody in the league now knows the limited routes he like to throw... make them look different to help the reads become easier. In other words, eliminate the presnap work the qb has to do by dictating what to the defense so the reads are less complex.

Pete has taken every approach a coach can short of blasting the face of the franchise in a way that would make Russ look like he can't do basic QBing stuff.

Fix 4...
Move on and let Russ spins his wares elsewhere and try to geta qb in here that can do good, if not great things because if you look at the tape, we need more ofnthe regular stuff eight now than the spectacular.

 

[toffee]

Some claim that Russ couldn't see the middle of field due to his height limitations, anyone follow Cardinals? They have a QB shorter than ours, did they have the same problem???

 

[LTH]

Some claim that Russ couldn't see the middle of field due to his height limitations, anyone follow Cardinals? They have a QB shorter than ours, did they have the same problem???

That was actually me just asking the question because I didn't know if that was an issue.


LTH