Russ Tonight

[FrodosFinger]

Russ “people were talking stuff about the defense and they stepped up” lmao just stfu and stop talking Willow

 

[Ozzy]

It's entirely subjective. And you don't have to challenge anything if you don't want to. I'm just providing a counterpoint to what I think is wrong.

Here's what I'll say. It's easy to make statements about who's better without skin in the game. And that's what I feel you and others are doing with Russell. If you genuinely think Russell is a good QB, set expectations for the Broncos. Predict that they'll be anything other than below average; otherwise, you're using cherry-picked stats and your subjective analysis of the Broncos' talent level to excuse the fact their offense is objectively below average. They are 17th in passing efficiency, 18th in success rate, 17th in DVOA, 31st in pass attempts, 29th in passing yards, and 26th in first downs.

So you leave out every traditional stat and red zone numbers, third down success, touchdowns, ints, poor decision throws(turnover worthy throws), passer rating etc and then claim people arguing Russ isn’t trash are the biased ones? Help me make sense of this. You’re cherry picking stats just as much as anyone else is and claiming moral high ground on the issue is intellectually dishonest.

Bottom line. Russ is better than most and is having a decent year. Why that’s so hard for some people to accept is beyond me.

But fine so if Seattle is 7-7 after this next guantlet are you prepared to say Geno sucks too then? I think it’s a bad argument but you used it so why not use it for everyone?

 

[RolandDeschain]

Bottom line. Russ is better than most and is having a decent year. Why that’s so hard for some people to accept is beyond me.

Because a ton of the "fans" here are salty scorned girlfriends as if Russell had a threesome with Ciara and their wives.

 

[Ozzy]

Because a ton of the "fans" here are salty scorned girlfriends as if Russell had a threesome with Ciara and their wives.

I don’t think you’re too far off.

 

[Cyrus12]

Because a ton of the "fans" here are salty scorned girlfriends as if Russell had a threesome with Ciara and their wives.

That was Earl Thomas and his brother..

 

[Shanegotyou11]

"Russ always looks for the homerun ball and doesnt check down like a Brady".

Now its become

"Russ checks down like a game manager".

Be consistent.

 

[Palmegranite]

"Doesn't throw to tight windows".

....statistically throws to the tightest window ever measured in the science of "tight windows". LOL

 

[Cyrus12]

"Doesn't throw to tight windows".

....statistically throws to the tightest window ever measured in the science of "tight windows". LOL

Source?

 

[Palmegranite]

It has already been posted here on .net, but here's another link:

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/russell-wilson-courtland-sutton-touchdown-stats-improbable

 

[Cyrus12]

It has already been posted here on .net, but here's another link:

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/russell-wilson-courtland-sutton-touchdown-stats-improbable

Ah yes that one...was a great play! I just thought it was something based on being more consistent in tight window throws which would be tough to measure.

 

[LastRideOut]

"Doesn't throw to tight windows".

....statistically throws to the tightest window ever measured in the science of "tight windows". LOL

It's much easier to throw to a tight window on a fade route. Though, that was a fantastic throw, and a well placed throw. It was vintage Russ.

He can't throw to tight windows anywhere else on the field, like Stafford can.

 

[hoxrox]

"Russ always looks for the homerun ball and doesnt check down like a Brady".

Now its become

"Russ checks down like a game manager".

Be consistent.

He got humbled. When he thought the was smarter than Pete, trying to play hero ball, instead of within a system designed to maximize his limitations, he burnt down the kitchen in Seattle. In his last playoff game as a Seahawk, his performance was abysmal.

Then he burnt down the house with his horrible play last year in Denver. His legacy was at stake.

Payton came in and wasn't having any of that. Turned him into an expensive game manager so they could try to salvage their season.

 

[Palmegranite]

It's much easier to throw to a tight window on a fade route. Though, that was a fantastic throw, and a well placed throw. It was vintage Russ.

He can't throw to tight windows anywhere else on the field, like Stafford can.

Or more appropriate to this thread, Josh Allen. Throws anywhere on the field, some would say indiscriminately. But the end result was 2 interceptions and the loss, vs 0 interceptions and a win for the Broncos. So easy sometimes = smarter.

 

[keasley45]

So you leave out every traditional stat and red zone numbers, third down success, touchdowns, ints, poor decision throws(turnover worthy throws), passer rating etc and then claim people arguing Russ isn’t trash are the biased ones? Help me make sense of this. You’re cherry picking stats just as much as anyone else is and claiming moral high ground on the issue is intellectually dishonest.

Bottom line. Russ is better than most and is having a decent year. Why that’s so hard for some people to accept is beyond me.

But fine so if Seattle is 7-7 after this next guantlet are you prepared to say Geno sucks too then? I think it’s a bad argument but you used it so why not use it for everyone?

let me put the stats thing in a different context so that you understand that quoting stats OTHER than those he traditionally does well in isnt cherry picking. its actually painting a complete picture.

Auto Racing - takes a car that is fast on the straight, in the turns, has great acceleration, balance, doesnt wear the tires, a driver with fast reflexes and great spatial awareness, and a pit crew that gets the car in and out of the pits quickly. OK?

If the car is routinely not finishing on the podium, but getting really close, and is all world in certain categories, then it makes sense to try to understand what is failing.

Its great if the car is the fastest down the straight, has great power, the driver, great reflexes and spatial awareness. But if ALL OF THAT is present, and he still finishes 4th, occassionally 2nd, and gets outqualified by cars that arent the best in any category, you look at the whole picture.

So in looking, you find that through the turns, its barely average, the car has poor balance which makes it unpredictably slower. In the pits, slow, and he has to pit more often because he burns through tires. THAT might explain why, regardless of the fact that the car is all world in some of the flashy categories where fans see it racing in front of the grandstand, in the lesser visible sections of the track, its strugglng to be average.

To just keep repeatig - yeah, but its fastest here and there and the best ever in acceleration out of turns... what exactly does that do to understand the totality of whats holding it back?

Wanting to look further is NOT cherry picking. The Russ homers ONLY want to talk about all the great stats. But theres a reason why the car isnt winning. And rather than being willing to take a look at all of the measureables that go into winning, they choose to only look at a few. I just find it utterly bewildering. Even now @LastRideOut put it about as good as you can. The genius coach who was brought in to set Russ free has put him on the shortest of short leashes and has him running the simplest of schemes. 3 games over 200 yards this year. Near league low avererage yards per play as their WINNING formula. 34th in throws in tight windows. Incredibly high number of plays where the qb gives up and checks it down. These are all FACTS that are indicators that point to a qb and a team that is great in certain areas of the track, now, even winning when they dial things back and rely on strategy over talent and putting the game in the QB's hands. Why? because Payton knows what that yields. If that wasnt the fact, he'd be running numbers and plays like he did with Brees.

Even Winston performed comparably to Russ under a 2 game smaller sample size with Payton. Winston had a lower completion percentage, but was close in performace otherwise (15 / 3 TD to INT, better YPA 7.3 v 6.9, Russ has had 30 sacks in 9 games, Winston, 11 in 7. Winston QBR 102.8 vs 104 for Russ, pass success rate for Winston 44.8%, for Russ - 42.5%) Russ is obviously head and shoulders above WInston in completion percentage and has a 200 to 167 ypg advantage. And NONE of that is meant to down Russ, but cmon. This mythology that he's just this all world gift to football that somehow, someway just never managed to get his team in Seattle back in contention and somehow, has since leaving there, become a pretty average looking player overall - when you factor in last year, things dont get better... Some choose to just root for him and hold up everything he does well. Others look at all that he does well, and wonder why it doesnt translate to overall better play, even at just the QB position, let alone the rest of the offenses he's a part of, and when it comes to overall play, the defenses as it relates to TOP and complimentary ball.

And the auto racing comp isnt just metaphor. I pulled Russ's air stats in critical passing downs a few years ago and created a pretty detailed thread around them. What they showed was, as compared to other 'elite' BQs, he was the ONLY one who routinely, over his career, finished poorly in converting on known passing downs. The others, all ALWAYS maintained a high level of performance in that area and also performed well in many others, even if not being the best in any. Russ didnt. And he was the only TOP passer who didnt. So in the others, you have cars that are solid all the way around the track and win pretty consistently. With Russ, he outperformed them in certain areas of the track, and then was woefully slow in others. THAT wasnt cherry picking, it was solving the riddle that is Russ.

All that to say, when it comes to overall play... the folks who look at such things in determing league MVP, HOF candidacy, etc dont JUST look at the top end measureables of a player. If you can win because you are SO incredibly superior in a few areas that it doesnt matter what your shortcomings show (rarely ever happens), then you receive the accolades. But if you are among the best in several measureables, and average to bad in others that are less obvious, but no less critical, AND DONT overcome them in the end, well, you have what Russ has been for several years, and that doesnt obsolve the other aspects of th eteam from their errors. But a QB who puts up great stats in highly visible and important categories, but struggles to sometimes be average in others. And those OTHERS are why folks take note when he's tossing bombs and high completion passes, but when the bullets start to really fly, he fades... that has been the truth for a long time. And no degree of accusing his critics of cherry picking can change that.

The great thing about his time in Denver this year is Payton is pretty clearly saying that he doesnt care about how fast his car is down the straight or how much power it has. He understands that if its not good in the corners and balanced well, it will always look great, but the team will finish just off the podium. And if he cant get it to do all of the things it needs to well enough to get around the track consistently in first, i dont expect him to keep on putting it out there.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

A little premature imo but we'll see how the rest of the season goes

 

[Ozzy]

A little premature imo but we'll see how the rest of the season goes

Im told by everyone on here his teammates hate him yet they keep sticking up for him in Denver.

 

[AK49Hawk]

Well, anyways…

It’d be something else to see Geno and Russ win back to back Comeback Player of the Year awards…

It’d definitely leave us at .NET scratching our heads…

 

[Maelstrom787]

Im told by everyone on here his teammates hate him yet they keep sticking up for him in Denver.

Winning cures, or at least covers, all

 

[LastRideOut]

Russ couldn't get ONE vote for MVP. He ain't getting comeback player of the year either.

A 250 million quarterback suddenly performing below expectations instead of rock bottom does not constitute as comeback player of the year.

If anything, Damar should get the award. The fact that he is even on the field is an amazing story, despite not being a significant contributor. He almost died on the field last year. Give that man his award.

Not to the quarter bill guy. B.itch, please.

 

[Fernie Hawks Fan]

Russ couldn't get ONE vote for MVP. He ain't getting comeback player of the year either.

A 250 million quarterback suddenly performing below expectations instead of rock bottom does not constitute as comeback player of the year.

If anything, Damar should get the award. The fact that he is even on the field is an amazing story, despite not being a significant contributor. He almost died on the field last year. Give that man his award.

Not to the quarter bill guy. B.itch, please.

^^^^...this a 1000x