The Jamal Adams mistake (IMO)

[massari]

If they were gonna use the first rounders on running backs, I'd trade 10 of them for Jamal Adams.

Ok, that got a :laugh:.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If they were gonna use the first rounders on running backs, I'd trade 10 of them for Jamal Adams.

Ok, that got a :laugh:.

Overvaluing running backs is a notable boomerism, though.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

There are multiple things going on here.

First of all, CoVID made all 2021 draft picks essentially worthless. The draft is a crapshoot, add the CoVID disruptions to multiple levels of college football and the draft becomes a crapshoot with loaded dice.

Second of all Adams is not really a safety. He is a linebacker, in the modern spread offense NFL. KJ Wright and Jamal Adams play the same position conceptually in the defense. I have a feeling KJ will walk this off-season which means the 2021 Seahawks will have Adams, Brooks, Wager as the linebackers with Neal and Diggs as the safeties. More NFL teams are running three safety sets as a base defense and Adams will be that box safety/outside linebacker.

Don’t forget Blair! FS Amadi SS Adams Slot Blair. Slot replaces the SAM, the SAM replaces the Run stuffing DE as the 3rd down pass rushing DE = Bruce Irvin. If you try to play Adam’s as a pass rusher vs a blitzer he’s going to get hurt going up against the bigger players.

Blair & Adams on the field at the same time is scary for offenses, they will destroy Offenses!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

10+ sacks with missing four games? You'd pay a DE 15M+ for that kind of production.

So no, I don't think the trade was a mistake. This defense DESPERATELY needed a playmaker like Adams to get the intimidation and sack production factor back.

Blitzing a Safety has huge consequence, and how many of his sacks were unblocked?

Marquise Blair, if healthy can blitz too.

Lots of guys have the potential to be good blitzers, but until they prove it for years that's all it is, talk.

It's why guy like Adams get traded for two first rounders and break the bank come contract time, and other guys don't. Production.

If Blair comes back and proves he can be a star on this defense? I'm all ear. But until then? Nope.

 

[massari]

Overvaluing running backs is a notable boomerism, though.

Overvaluing RB = taking in the late 1st early 2nd?

 

[Fade]

They need to trade him. He will be constantly hurt and won't play through it once he gets paid. Made multiple "business decisions" when in the hole with the back throughout the season.

He can't cover, teams exploited this over and over. Seattle had to blitz him 10 times a game to find an effective role for him. Even then only got home 10% of the time. Leaving the defense in a coverage deficit 90% of the time. He doesn't fit the scheme, classic square peg, round hole.

He needs to be in an exotic scheme, preferably a 3-4. The Seahawks are a vanilla, fundamentally sound defense. Adams compromises that.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Overvaluing running backs is a notable boomerism, though.

Overvaluing RB = taking in the late 1st early 2nd?

In the context of "I regret the Jamal Adams trade because it robbed Seattle of the chance to draft a running back with their highest pick," yeah. Even the great backs really don't provide much value over the replacement-level average back compared to other positions. Not just that, but the good ones come from all over the draft board.

It's fine to want draft capital back, but for running backs? Why?

 

[FresnoHawk52]

They need to trade him. He will be constantly hurt and won't play through it once he gets paid. Made multiple "business decisions" when in the hole with the back throughout the season.

He can't cover, teams exploited this over and over. Seattle had to blitz him 10 times a game to find an effective role for him. Even then only got home 10% of the time. Leaving the defense in a coverage deficit 90% of the time. He doesn't fit the scheme, classic square peg, round hole.

He needs to be in an exotic scheme, preferably a 3-4. The Seahawks are a vanilla, fundamentally sound defense. Adams compromises that.

You could be right! The new rules will pretty much force Adams to play this year without a new deal but waiting is going to cost Seattle more $$. Don’t forget if Seattle caves to Adams they will have to cave for DK.
Seattle should evaluate Adams during camp if he’s as bad as you say he is they could trade him before the season starts at a similar value they paid for him.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

10+ sacks with missing four games? You'd pay a DE 15M+ for that kind of production.

So no, I don't think the trade was a mistake. This defense DESPERATELY needed a playmaker like Adams to get the intimidation and sack production factor back.

Blitzing a Safety has huge consequence, and how many of his sacks were unblocked?

Marquise Blair, if healthy can blitz too.

Lots of guys have the potential to be good blitzers, but until they prove it for years that's all it is, talk.

It's why guy like Adams get traded for two first rounders and break the bank come contract time, and other guys don't. Production.

If Blair comes back and proves he can be a star on this defense? I'm all ear. But until then? Nope.

I disagree the “glass is half full” lots to be excited about with Blair 4.48 40 yard, hits like truck, had 11 combined tackles week 8 in 2019, beat out Ugo Amadi for Slot never ever playing a down at slot. Blair has the talent & qualities to be a star in the NFL.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They need to trade him. He will be constantly hurt and won't play through it once he gets paid. Made multiple "business decisions" when in the hole with the back throughout the season.

He can't cover, teams exploited this over and over. Seattle had to blitz him 10 times a game to find an effective role for him. Even then only got home 10% of the time. Leaving the defense in a coverage deficit 90% of the time. He doesn't fit the scheme, classic square peg, round hole.

He needs to be in an exotic scheme, preferably a 3-4. The Seahawks are a vanilla, fundamentally sound defense. Adams compromises that.

You might be right, but IMO it's too soon to give up on Adams.

We couldn't get anywhere close to what we gave up for him. Last year of his deal AND two off season surgeries? So what, maybe a 2nd and conditional?

I'd rather work on figuring out how to best use him within our schemes then give up and have nothing in return, including the player for nowhere near what we gave up.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This trade is a mistake, 100 percent. You don't give up two firsts for a safety, end of story. It felt like a desperation trade to me. Jamal Adams also has a specific skillset. He's essentially another linebacker on the field. He's not great in coverage and got really exploited there. When we rush him we're taking somebody out of coverage as well. He also has a history of injuries and we're still don't have a long term solution at pass rusher.

The 2020 offseason was a real mess.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

This trade is a mistake, 100 percent. You don't give up two firsts for a safety, end of story. It felt like a desperation trade to me. Jamal Adams also has a specific skillset. He's essentially another linebacker on the field. He's not great in coverage and got really exploited there. When we rush him we're taking somebody out of coverage as well. He also has a history of injuries and we're still don't have a long term solution at pass rusher.

The 2020 offseason was a real mess.

I get what your saying but I’m not convinced what your saying is true because Adams was hurt last year. We drafted 2 DE’s last year we have no choice but to give them a chance.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This trade is a mistake, 100 percent. You don't give up two firsts for a safety, end of story. It felt like a desperation trade to me. Jamal Adams also has a specific skillset. He's essentially another linebacker on the field. He's not great in coverage and got really exploited there. When we rush him we're taking somebody out of coverage as well. He also has a history of injuries and we're still don't have a long term solution at pass rusher.

The 2020 offseason was a real mess.

I get what your saying but I’m not convinced what your saying is true because Adams was hurt last year. We drafted 2 DE’s last year we have no choice but to give them a chance.

Yes, he was hurt but it was in his upper body. That doesn't affect where you position yourself in coverage. As for the DE's, we drafted a guy in the late round, how often do those work out? The other guy was a calculated risk that may never pan out. We got him so low in the draft because he had an injury that he may never fully recover from. Greene and Collier are JAGs, players that you can just about replace with anyone and not see a huge difference. Carlos Dunlap is a stop gap that we lucked upon mid season.

We have no real long term solution at pass rusher and haven't for years now. A pass rush is mandatory for fielding a good defense and we have nothing but a bunch of stop gaps, no concrete solutions. Despite this we traded for an inbox safety that is going to demand a lot of money. See where I'm going? The move didn't make much sense to me. Sure, from a short term prospective it improves the team, but the long term prognosis, especially after a large contract doesn't make much sense.

 

[rcaido]

It was too much for a safety but im not sure im having buyers regret. He was awesome last year and clearly the best defensive player we have. he is only 25.

I rather cut ties w/ Reed 13million. Also try to get restructure Wagner 18million which he wont, so trade him.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

This trade is a mistake, 100 percent. You don't give up two firsts for a safety, end of story. It felt like a desperation trade to me. Jamal Adams also has a specific skillset. He's essentially another linebacker on the field. He's not great in coverage and got really exploited there. When we rush him we're taking somebody out of coverage as well. He also has a history of injuries and we're still don't have a long term solution at pass rusher.

The 2020 offseason was a real mess.

I get what your saying but I’m not convinced what your saying is true because Adams was hurt last year. We drafted 2 DE’s last year we have no choice but to give them a chance.

Yes, he was hurt but it was in his upper body. That doesn't affect where you position yourself in coverage. As for the DE's, we drafted a guy in the late round, how often do those work out? The other guy was a calculated risk that may never pan out. We got him so low in the draft because he had an injury that he may never fully recover from. Greene and Collier are JAGs, players that you can just about replace with anyone and not see a huge difference. Carlos Dunlap is a stop gap that we lucked upon mid season.

We have no real long term solution at pass rusher and haven't for years now. A pass rush is mandatory for fielding a good defense and we have nothing but a bunch of stop gaps, no concrete solutions. Despite this we traded for an inbox safety that is going to demand a lot of money. See where I'm going? The move didn't make much sense to me. Sure, from a short term prospective it improves the team, but the long term prognosis, especially after a large contract doesn't make much sense.

Again I need another season before I can agree with your popular conclusion & old conclusions.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It was too much for a safety but im not sure im having buyers regret. He was awesome last year and clearly the best defensive player we have. he is only 25.

I rather cut ties w/ Reed 13million. Also try to get restructure Wagner 18million which he wont, so trade him.

If we don't want to pay Wagner the almost 40M he's owed over the next two years, then what makes you think another team would not only want to pay him, but also give up high picks?

Bobby can be mad that we're asking him to renegotiate, but that's how this goes. He's played very well, but not 18M and 21M well. So he should be expecting the phone call from John about re-doing his deal.

Just like every other vet at the end of a deal. Reed should expect that call, Dunlap should expect that call, Duane Brown should expect that call.

If Wagner thinks he can make more as a free agent after refusing? Then more power to him. I don't see it, but he might.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

It was too much for a safety but im not sure im having buyers regret. He was awesome last year and clearly the best defensive player we have. he is only 25.

I rather cut ties w/ Reed 13million. Also try to get restructure Wagner 18million which he wont, so trade him.

If we don't want to pay Wagner the almost 40M he's owed over the next two years, then what makes you think another team would not only want to pay him, but also give up high picks?

Bobby can be mad that we're asking him to renegotiate, but that's how this goes. He's played very well, but not 18M and 21M well. So he should be expecting the phone call from John about re-doing his deal.

Just like every other vet at the end of a deal. Reed should expect that call, Dunlap should expect that call, Duane Brown should expect that call.

If Wagner thinks he can make more as a free agent after refusing? Then more power to him. I don't see it, but he might.

Seattle started preparing for Wagner’s departure when they drafted Barton doesn’t mean it will happen because Wagner has played high caliber football worth 18 million in my opinion. With Brooks on track to replace Wagner full time in 2022 this might be the time to trade him if they get the right price which should be a round 1 for Seattle. You may not believe Wagner is worth more than a round 1 but that doesn’t matter because Seattle probably does.

This draft should have good WILL prospects if that’s the case I think it will motivate Seattle to trade Wagner to Raiders for a round 1 pick & resign KJ Wright since KJ can teach all 3 LB positions.

 

[xray]

Adams camp is sure he will draw top $$ somewhere . They have no worries .

 

[onepicknick1]

Look, I really like the guy as a person. He brings fire and is a good teammate. And he is a great football player and athlete. But he is not going to be worth how much we will need to pay him next year. So if we do we will either really screw ourselves with the salary cap by making him the highest paid safety in football, or we let him walk and that means we wasted all that draft capitol. I was excited when we traded for him but in hindsight I think it's a mistake. Like I said I like the guy, but he is a DB who doesn't do a lot in coverage. The Seahawks need better pass coverage. I believe JS and PC messed up on this one. Especially if Russ wants a better line, we can't be overpaying a SS. We hurt ourselves with that trade and it's very unlikely he is here beyond next year. I'd say trade him now like they were talking about doing after 1 season. Although I don't think that's happening either. Oh well.

IMO he's worth more then Bobby. Cut Bobby and Adams gets paid I think he's going to be the Defensive leader he carries the emotion in the game. As far as the pass coverage I'm kinda leaning toward the short middle of the field coverage the LB coverage although KJ did decent.

 

[onepicknick1]

It was too much for a safety but im not sure im having buyers regret. He was awesome last year and clearly the best defensive player we have. he is only 25.

I rather cut ties w/ Reed 13million. Also try to get restructure Wagner 18million which he wont, so trade him.

If we don't want to pay Wagner the almost 40M he's owed over the next two years, then what makes you think another team would not only want to pay him, but also give up high picks?

Bobby can be mad that we're asking him to renegotiate, but that's how this goes. He's played very well, but not 18M and 21M well. So he should be expecting the phone call from John about re-doing his deal.

Just like every other vet at the end of a deal. Reed should expect that call, Dunlap should expect that call, Duane Brown should expect that call.

If Wagner thinks he can make more as a free agent after refusing? Then more power to him. I don't see it, but he might.

Seattle started preparing for Wagner’s departure when they drafted Barton doesn’t mean it will happen because Wagner has played high caliber football worth 18 million in my opinion. With Brooks on track to replace Wagner full time in 2022 this might be the time to trade him if they get the right price which should be a round 1 for Seattle. You may not believe Wagner is worth more than a round 1 but that doesn’t matter because Seattle probably does.

This draft should have good WILL prospects if that’s the case I think it will motivate Seattle to trade Wagner to Raiders for a round 1 pick & resign KJ Wright since KJ can teach all 3 LB positions.

I guess I should of scrolled down good analysis.