Throwback Poll: Was Shaun Alexander Soft?

[TypeSly]

No. Nobody who steps on a pro football field is soft.

People tend to underestimate what exactly is happening on an NFL; but, be fortunate enough to get close to a sideline for some live action and you'll realize how silly of a thought it is to think any of them are soft.

Not even CJ Prosise? :mrgreen:

 

[Chapow]

I don't think he was soft. Just because he avoids contact, it doesn't make him soft to me. I think that's smart. As for his reputation of running out of bounds, I don't know where that comes from. I don't seem to remember him running out of bounds prematurely.

I remember him running out of bounds "prematurely" (AKA to avoid getting blasted when he wasn't going to get anymore yards anyway) sometimes in 2006-2007, but this was only once carrying a massive load for this team for 5 straight years started taking it's toll on his body.

I hate this topic because I just can't understand the amount of disrespect, bordering on hatred, so many Seahawks fans seem to have for Alexander. 300+ carries a year for 5 straight seasons, while putting up prolific numbers, the man was an absolute warrior for this team. OF COURSE his body started breaking down after carrying a load like that. Just disgusting to me how he's treated by many around here. Makes me feel like this fan base doesn't deserve elite, MVP caliber players since we don't appreciate them anyway.

 

[KinesProf]

No. Nobody who steps on a pro football field is soft.

People tend to underestimate what exactly is happening on an NFL; but, be fortunate enough to get close to a sideline for some live action and you'll realize how silly of a thought it is to think any of them are soft.

Not even CJ Prosise? :mrgreen:

Absolutely not. Fragile, yes.

But civilians tend to underestimate exactly what it takes to step on the field, court, ice etc at the highest level. Think of the best, toughest, most badass athlete you personally knew growing up, then realize that that guy isn't close to who these professionals are.

 

[AROS]

I hate this topic because I just can't understand the amount of disrespect, bordering on hatred, so many Seahawks fans seem to have for Alexander. 300+ carries a year for 5 straight seasons, while putting up prolific numbers, the man was an absolute warrior for this team. OF COURSE his body started breaking down after carrying a load like that. Just disgusting to me how he's treated by many around here. Makes me feel like this fan base doesn't deserve elite, MVP caliber players since we don't appreciate them anyway.

I feel ya brother. I've never understood the vitriol about the man. Excellent player, even better human. It's quite frankly one of the greatest mysteries to me when it comes to former players for us.

 

[Tokadub]

He was smart. Chris Carson needs to let up once in a while to preserve himself.

Bo Jackson had so much muscle that it ripped his ball right out of it's socket. Bones can only take so much before muscle take over and causes damage. Ever see those horrible weight lifting accidents?

Yeah I totally agree I'm worried Chris Carson runs a bit too hard for what his body can handle... I've thought he was really hurt many times (based on replays of him getting destroyed at the end of plays)... I think he just downplays the amount of pain he's really in. But I heard an ESPN Seattle radio interview recently (right before he missed a few games) he said he can barely walk up the stairs after a game, when he drives home he just sits in the car for a while he's so sore... I don't think he's joking.

That's why Marshawn Lynch was so special he played so hard but the way he's built he's just some kind of freak to put it nicely, he took so much punishment and yet was playing almost every game for nearly his whole career...

Conclusion:

We should be careful with Carson, he's one of the best RBs in the league but we shouldn't use him too much if we can win while letting him rest imo... I'd rather he's healthy in the playoffs then maybe even having a better seed... not sure about that but it's interesting.

Sometimes just 1 injury can knock you out of the playoffs. For example I think when Cliff Avril got injured (3rd quarter) in the Superbowl vs Patriots that may have cost us the game... we also lost Jeremy Lane (1st quarter...) but I think Cliff Avril being out was very bad for us.

https://www.sbnation.com/2015/2/1/79612 ... er-bowl-49

I know it's a coin flip you can get hurt on any play... but if I was on this staff I'd probably try to limit Carson's reps as much as possible unless it's a season ending loss scenario.

 

[chris98251]

Yes he was soft, Lynch, Doornink, Watters, John L Williams, Curt Warner, all much more physical, Shaun was so soft he would not pass block and had to be taken out of the line up. None of the others were, so that makes him a one dimensional back as well since he was rarely in a game for a passing situation.

It was why as a 1st rounder he could not take the position from Ricky Watters also, he was soft and continually in Holmgren's dog house.

Holmgren drafted him hoping for Watters 2.0 or a Roger Craig 2.0. He got a Franco Harris clone, run out of bounds and go down. The reason Rocky Blier was so popular was because he got the tough yards and was physical as well. Franco was on a multiple Super Bowl teams and had a long career granted. But nobody talks about him in regards to all-time greats either really unless your in Pittsburgh, still I think they more fondly think of Bettis.

No SA wasn’t soft. However after he injured his foot he didn’t have the same acceleration and speed he had prior to that. That combined with his OL getter weaker contributed to his struggles post injury.

Curt Warner’s running style is very close to SA’s style. Curt was great but no way would I say he was a physical back. He was a magnificent cut back runner and he made people miss. Curt also ran behind a very good line. Steve August, Ron Essink, Reggie McKenzie, and Blair Bush.

Curt caught the ball, Curt would pass block, Curt would put his shoulder in a run and keep his legs moving, yes he slashed and could cut on a dime but he was a complete back, and that's saying a lot playing for Chuck Knox. Knox would not have let falling down in front of defenders in a fetal position go unchallenged.

He was in era where pussies were hit hard to knock them out of a game also, he hit back physically also. I watched him play, did you?

Alexander played well for us and was allowed to play the roll he played, if he was a 3rd round pick he would not have seen the field till he blocked and was more aggressive.

 

[OrangeGravy]

The dude had 5 straight years with 300+ carries and you say he never ran through a tackle...I have a hard time calling any NFL player soft let alone a RB. SA took a pounding for 11+ years of his life and produced at record levels. Definitely NOT soft.

AND all that being said, he was the biggest BI!CH in the NFL in the last 20 years

And your credentials? Your addition to the thread is applauded...you are pathetic

https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/footba ... 163237.php

 

[TypeSly]

The dude had 5 straight years with 300+ carries and you say he never ran through a tackle...I have a hard time calling any NFL player soft let alone a RB. SA took a pounding for 11+ years of his life and produced at record levels. Definitely NOT soft.

AND all that being said, he was the biggest BI!CH in the NFL in the last 20 years

And your credentials? Your addition to the thread is applauded...you are pathetic

https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/footba ... 163237.php

I don't get what that article has to do with him being soft and a b*tch, though. I think anyone would be peeved if they didn't get a chance to get one yard for the rushing title, and being immortalized.

 

[keasley45]

Holmgren all but said he was soft and unwilling to grind if the hole wasn't there and would try to curb his frustration because of the rushing stats.

Zorn knew as well:

“Repeating that ’05 season would have been hard. And he just seemed to either not have the knack, or he seemed to take a view of, ‘Hey, listen, when the hole’s there, I’m going to run through, but if the hole’s not there, you might as well go and call the next play.’

“Shaun didn’t have a great work ethic in Seattle,” Zorn added. “He didn’t. He said he felt practice was for everybody else.”

I'd be curious to know the opinion of those who played the position, or o-line in a meaningful capacity in highschool or college.

 

[pittpnthrs]

AND all that being said, he was the biggest BI!CH in the NFL in the last 20 years

And your credentials? Your addition to the thread is applauded...you are pathetic

https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/footba ... 163237.php

I don't get what that article has to do with him being soft and a b*tch, though. I think anyone would be peeved if they didn't get a chance to get one yard for the rushing title, and being immortalized.

It was a jerk move by Holmgren at the time. Alexander had every right to be pissed.

 

[Hockey Guy]

This place is just amazing.

The mental gymnastics somebody needs to go through to convince themselves that a player, who never missed a game in his first 6 seasons & carried the ball that many times & gained that many yards & scored that many TD's in the most physically demanding sport in the most physically demanding league & won an MVP award in said league, was "soft" is impressive.

& by amazing, I mean embarrassing.

 

[keasley45]

Whats amazing is that people can't distinguish between 'soft' in the context of durability and 'soft' in the context of being willing to make contact intentionally and forcefully in a contact sport like football. And hey, guess what... IF YOU RARELY GET HIT HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SLIDING TO THE GROUND AND AVOIDING CONTACT YOU MIGHT BE PRETTY GOOD AT AVOIDING INJURY. But somehow now the fact that he was rarely hurt is a sign of his toughness? By that rule, norm Johnson was the toughest player we ever had.

There's no 'mental gymastics' required to see that Alexander's running style was one predicated on avoiding contact when possible to the point of sliding down to the ground when it looked like he might take a hit... instead of meeting the tackle and trying to force his will... and not turning out hard yards unless he was in sight of the goal line.

Thats who he was and because he had a great line, there were a ton of yards and touchdowns available to him without needing to play a more hard-nosed style.

And for the folks on this board who insist on creating this binary condition where a back is either Shaun alexander or Earl Campbell... again. Thats whats amazing. Theres a huge range of styles between the two and most don't involve sliding to the ground and avoiding contact and hard yards.

This is not an opinion shared by justvthose on this board. Homlgren saw it and no doubt it was the root of the disconnect between the two. Zorn saw it while he was here and after he signed him in washingtin... and cut him. And the 31 other teams that could have signed him after he was cut by seattle saw it too. But maybe we are all just crazy.

 

[Hockey Guy]

Whats amazing is that people can't distinguish between 'soft' in the context of durability and 'soft' in the context of being willing to make contact intentionally and forcefully in a contact sport like football. And hey, guess what... IF YOU RARELY GET HIT HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SLIDING TO THE GROUND AND AVOIDING CONTACT YOU MIGHT BE PRETTY GOOD AT AVOIDING INJURY. But somehow now the fact that he was rarely hurt is a sign of his toughness? By that rule, norm Johnson was the toughest player we ever had.

There's no 'mental gymastics' required to see that Alexander's running style was one predicated on avoiding contact when possible to the point of sliding down to the ground when it looked like he might take a hit... instead of meeting the tackle and trying to force his will... and not turning out hard yards unless he was in sight of the goal line.

Thats who he was and because he had a great line, there were a ton of yards and touchdowns available to him without needing to play a more hard-nosed style.

And for the folks on this board who insist on creating this binary condition where a back is either Shaun alexander or Earl Campbell... again. Thats whats amazing. Theres a huge range of styles between the two and most don't involve sliding to the ground and avoiding contact and hard yards.

This is not an opinion shared by justvthose on this board. Homlgren saw it and no doubt it was the root of the disconnect between the two. Zorn saw it while he was here and after he signed him in washingtin... and cut him. And the 31 other teams that could have signed him after he was cut by seattle saw it too. But maybe we are all just crazy.

Where to start with this idiocy?

So, you've decided to somehow make it seem like Mike Holmgren & Jim Zorn agree with you with absolutely no proof?

Then you back that up by pretending that Jim Zorn signed him then cut him because he was "soft" to prove a point to everybody & not because his time as a top-tier running back was basically over because that's what happens to running backs. Then you claim everybody in football agrees with you, again with no proof, & declined to sign him because he was "soft" & not for that other reason.

Now that's what is known as "mental gymnastics", you know, making stuff up to make it seem as if the opinion somebody just wrote is not an opinion put is factual.

 

[Nunya]

Whats amazing is that people can't distinguish between 'soft' in the context of durability and 'soft' in the context of being willing to make contact intentionally and forcefully in a contact sport like football. And hey, guess what... IF YOU RARELY GET HIT HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SLIDING TO THE GROUND AND AVOIDING CONTACT YOU MIGHT BE PRETTY GOOD AT AVOIDING INJURY. But somehow now the fact that he was rarely hurt is a sign of his toughness? By that rule, norm Johnson was the toughest player we ever had.

There's no 'mental gymastics' required to see that Alexander's running style was one predicated on avoiding contact when possible to the point of sliding down to the ground when it looked like he might take a hit... instead of meeting the tackle and trying to force his will... and not turning out hard yards unless he was in sight of the goal line.

Thats who he was and because he had a great line, there were a ton of yards and touchdowns available to him without needing to play a more hard-nosed style.

And for the folks on this board who insist on creating this binary condition where a back is either Shaun alexander or Earl Campbell... again. Thats whats amazing. Theres a huge range of styles between the two and most don't involve sliding to the ground and avoiding contact and hard yards.

This is not an opinion shared by justvthose on this board. Homlgren saw it and no doubt it was the root of the disconnect between the two. Zorn saw it while he was here and after he signed him in washingtin... and cut him. And the 31 other teams that could have signed him after he was cut by seattle saw it too. But maybe we are all just crazy.

Gotta love the people that try to re-write history to fit their own false reality.

Zorn did not cut Alexander because he thought he was soft. He cut him because he had 4 RBs on his roster and the other 3 were getting healthy. This made Alexander expendable. He was cut in order to free up a roster spot for someone to help their defense....which was struggling at the time.

 

[keasley45]

Whats amazing is that people can't distinguish between 'soft' in the context of durability and 'soft' in the context of being willing to make contact intentionally and forcefully in a contact sport like football. And hey, guess what... IF YOU RARELY GET HIT HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SLIDING TO THE GROUND AND AVOIDING CONTACT YOU MIGHT BE PRETTY GOOD AT AVOIDING INJURY. But somehow now the fact that he was rarely hurt is a sign of his toughness? By that rule, norm Johnson was the toughest player we ever had.

There's no 'mental gymastics' required to see that Alexander's running style was one predicated on avoiding contact when possible to the point of sliding down to the ground when it looked like he might take a hit... instead of meeting the tackle and trying to force his will... and not turning out hard yards unless he was in sight of the goal line.

Thats who he was and because he had a great line, there were a ton of yards and touchdowns available to him without needing to play a more hard-nosed style.

And for the folks on this board who insist on creating this binary condition where a back is either Shaun alexander or Earl Campbell... again. Thats whats amazing. Theres a huge range of styles between the two and most don't involve sliding to the ground and avoiding contact and hard yards.

This is not an opinion shared by justvthose on this board. Homlgren saw it and no doubt it was the root of the disconnect between the two. Zorn saw it while he was here and after he signed him in washingtin... and cut him. And the 31 other teams that could have signed him after he was cut by seattle saw it too. But maybe we are all just crazy.

Gotta love the people that try to re-write history to fit their own false reality.

Zorn did not cut Alexander because he thought he was soft. He cut him because he had 4 RBs on his roster and the other 3 were getting healthy. This made Alexander expendable. He was cut in order to free up a roster spot for someone to help their defense....which was struggling at the time.

the statement about Zorn's feelings on Alexander are straight from his mouth, not conjecture. but i guess in this universe the feeling that Shaun wouldnt hit a hole or practice hard somehow didnt factor into him being cut?? lol. And Ladell Betts beat him out?? Please. They could have brought him back and the thought at the time among the media here in the mid-atlantic was that they would. But they didnt. because why bring back a guy you were taking a flier on in the first place when nobody else wanted him and who has a reputation for not running hard, practicing hard. DC media even talked about him not being teh same kind of back if he didnt have great blocking. And he wasnt. which is why he was let go in DC and Seattle.

Look. Shaun benefited from a generationally good o-line. He dint run hard, hit the hole hard (unless he was in sight of the goal-line, or actively grind out yards that werent easily there. And he was gifted a ton of yards when all that was required was speed and the ability to make a cut and get upfield. When that gift was no longer there, he was no longer the same back. He'd just signed a fat contract, was now in a position where running was no longer as easy as it once was becauise the line wasnt as good, and his performance declined. His coaches saw it and he was cut. After he was cut, the other teams in the league saw it and let him sit. And when the reskins signed him, they saw the same thing and cut him in favor of Portis and Betts.

This isnt some revisionist history. Its what happened. Its who he was.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

@keasly you’ve posted numerous times now about him being cut at the end of his career.....we get it he was done but that fact doesn’t define his career. Just take a trip down memory lane and think about the defensive legends he ran against, an impressive list of HOF destroyers. Yet he had a 5 year run that rivals some of the greats. I’ve listed several times his most impressive accomplishments that in any other city would make him legendary yet here I have to defend him against names like Fenner and Washington....

Will he get in the Hall, probably not. Does he deserve consideration...in my opinion yes.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This place is just amazing.

The mental gymnastics somebody needs to go through to convince themselves that a player, who never missed a game in his first 6 seasons & carried the ball that many times & gained that many yards & scored that many TD's in the most physically demanding sport in the most physically demanding league & won an MVP award in said league, was "soft" is impressive.

& by amazing, I mean embarrassing.

It doesn't have to be either or, it can be both.

Alexander was one of the most durable runners in his time BECAUSE he avoided contact and ran out of bounds instead of trying to hammer upfield for a couple more yards.

The downside of that is people did perceive him to be soft, so people on this thread aren't making that up. That was the knock on Alexander.

Hell, for as much as I love Carson, he could use a little Alexander in him to know when to fight and hit for extra yards and when to run out of bounds instead of seeking contact. Might have helped avoid some of these injuries.

 

[TypeSly]

Someone's gonna have to pull up this play where SA "slides, to avoid contact". If it's so legendary, there's gotta be a clip of it somewhere.

 

[Maulbert]

Alexander is one of the greatest runners in league history in terms of vision. Dude was great at finding the hole.

That said, Lynch didn't need a hole, Lynch didn't want a hole. Alexander's style would've been dreadful behind Cable's o-lines. Marshawn might've run for 2,000 behind Walt and Hutch.

 

[themunn]

Did he avoid contact sometimes? Maybe, but as a result he was fit and healthy to play 5 consecutive seasons with 300+ carries in each (bar one, where he was just behind at 295), and all 16 games in each.

For all his "shortened" career, he only has around 250 less career carries than Lynch, who suited up for 11 seasons (not including his 1 game hurrah with us last year).

Not soft for me.