What a former player thinks

[chris98251]

George Allen built a Redskins dynasty trading away picks for players, Bill has drafted low for years, yes Brady was good, but he also won with Grappallo and Cassell and adapted when needed. Now is that Bill or McDaniel, or both. How many times do undrafted or lower rounded players blow up the league, a lot. It's about good evaluation and knowledge of that players strengths in the scheme you have.

Jones may take off at some point when it clicks and the game slows down and the Patriots step up again as a power, we will have to see year two really of Jones.

Dynasties can happen just different then in the past with the same players year to year. Now it is about key players and a Coaching staff and front office working together long term.

 

[John63]

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, so let's do some constructive theorizing, let's say, we use Billycheck & Brady as a seat of the pants comparison; What's been BB's successes or downsides since Brady's departure?, I'd say, he is missing some key players that BB had personally hand picked (cherry picked) and schemed for their successes
Just saying that Brady went elsewhere and flourished is kind of misleading, considering that he is inarguably one of the GOAT's, that got to cherry pick from his former Coach, and a few other like minded, KEY players, while his new Coach stood aside and let him orchestrate the build...NOW, to be truthful, even though BB is considered by many to be the most adaptable of game planning Coaches in the League, his successes in the last 10 or more years, was entirely on Brady's play?, I'm not convinced that, that is the case....It was BB who was the original architect, who acquired the players, designed & built a system that fit Brady, and he flourished because of it.
Pete Carroll, though known more for his Defensive mind, still recognized that there were certain Offensive Schemes & players that gave his Defenses a really hard time defending against, so, he brought in Tom Cable, went & got Marshawn Lynch, LUCKILY, caught lightening in a bottle a second time, by Drafting Russell Wilson.
Pete is missing some KEY components to his Offensive Dream Team, that are just not that easy to replace, though he was (before injuries) having SOME success with Chris Carson.....I am not saying that IF a different Coach with a whole new approach, wouldn't be beneficial to RW, BUT, if we did change to a new Coach, I sincerely have my doubts that he wouldn't have to half ass blow up the roster, and go through an entire rebuild, & I don't see RW willing to wait several years for a change like that, changes that may or may not even be a FIT for him.
NOW, where could Russ go, where he'd have the same clout OR SUCCESSES that Brady did with Tampa Bay?
A hard reality; I just don't think we just send Pete packing, bring in another Coach without having some major stumblings, but that's just my opinion

That is not how any of that happened.

Tom Brady was drafted as a camp arm that hoped never would start a game. Then Weis and Belichick keep Brady on a short leash for his first 4 years as a starter. The 2001-2004 Patriots still had a lot of Bill Parcells and Pete Carroll players on the defensive roster. Josh McDaniels was then installed as the OC in 2006. Then Tom Brady was allowed to air it out and they started to add players to the roster for the offense. They did not win another Super Bowl until after 2013 when Brady started to take shorter cheaper deals after he turned 35. Will Russ do that after his 2022 contract?

Lynch was added to the team in 2010. Cable joined the staff in 2011. The Cable hire was a can't beat them join them hire because Cable's 2010 Raiders ran for 239 yards on Carroll's Seahawks.

The story here is BB adjusted his system constantly and put talented coaches into positions to succeed and got out of their way.

Would Carroll allow a coach like McDaniels to completely change his team's offensive philosophy? Would Carroll roll out a completely new defensive look that would shock an opponent? These are the questions that bounce between these two successful teams.

Correct except we already know PC will not allow any changes relating to system for long.

 

[pittpnthrs]

. yeah he ran the ball when the saints stacked the box...but they didn't turn the ball over ...
LTH

Good lord. Is that your defense of that horrid coaching job?

I don't think it was a horrible coaching job...on the contrary I thought it was a well designed intentional game plan... the reason they lost that game was 2 missed FG's

He ran the ball 9 straight times into that stacked box. Thats not a well designed game plan, thats insanity.

 

[jammerhawk]

Who the fck cares what that dipsh!t says.

LOL

Exactly!!!

Just who is Terry Hollis anyway, and why is his opinion somehow preferable to Tate’s? Tate was one of us here

Nobody is saying things are going well this season or for that matter even winning this tough division last season. I have immense respect for Pete, but he’s starting to look as if he can’t figure out how to stop opponents anymore and his once excellent D, just isn’t as it again brings up the rear of all D’s in the league. It’s not a bad thing to want more than annual playoff appearances as hard as that is to accomplish especially in the toughest D in the NFL, but it seems like the tread on the FO/ coaching tires is beginning to wear pretty thin and mistakes are being made that is making the team less competitive.

Change needs to happen. We were curious about a new OC, yet that change sure doesn’t look very good so far. Maybe after RW comes back we might see at least some of what we hoped to see. Suspect that Norton is done here after this season and that may be it for him as he wasn’t very good in Oakland either. Carroll may right the sinking ship before the season ends yet it is clear even if it is just a new DC that changes need to be made.

Carroll is a great coach but his limitations are showing.

 

[JPatera76]

Did anyone see Wilson on Thursday, before the game, he was doing this stupid a$$ warm up like he was running the offense looking at the cameras.....LOL

Collingsworth ate it up...LOL

Russ is a media who**. Can't wait until he's gone.

He can take his mentally challenged pacifier sucking knob with him. :2thumbs:

See and that isnthe difference between you who wants you who wants to demonize anything Wilson does to validate his hatred and people who understand football. And a knowledgeable fan who know most of this game is mental and knows what Wilson is doing is a way of keeping mentally sharp.

Fyi most of us wish you would take your mentally challenged pacifier and would leave this forum.

You need a cyber hankie ? LOL

Your posts, read like someone who has spent time on webzone. They're quickly getting old and they're usually the same childish rebuttals and remarks that lack any context that provide no value to the thread overall. If your going to shit talk and attack posters just take it to the shack. I see mods have gotten relaxed, as back in the day it was something heavily frowned upon and quickly nipped in the ass. People cried about it, but knew to just head to the shack instead of watering down a thread with childish insults and rebuttals.

As for the thread, I agree with both Golden Tate, and Greg Olsen. He may not have "bought in" 100% but being the most recent player to have been with Seattle, he said it best in an interview where, he flat out said Seattle would probably see more success if Pete let Russell be Russell, like the cardinals this year have let Murray be Murray.

 

[jeremiah]

It's not so black and white as you and others make it out to be. It's not guaranteed that we're going to go suddenly from winning seasons to years of mediocrity. So the narrative that getting rid of PC means "Oh no, back to what the team looked like BEFORE PC for years and years" is dumb and ridiculously outdated.

It's not guaranteed.

But it's highly probable.

"Outdated" is a weird term to use here given all the teams that just sit in the mediocre to bad category almost every year. That's probably about half the teams in the league, a little less now that they let a couple more teams in the playoffs. That's just a normal NFL team.

I don't know if this team is going to be better off without Carroll, but I do know that the last few years of "didn't get past the divisional round, ugh" is better than almost every team in the league.

If you're a gambler and believe in low probability rebuild or bust, I get that. But it seems like a lot of people think it's "guaranteed" or at least close to it that getting rid of Carroll will result in some high probability situation where the team regularly makes NFC Championship games/Super Bowls. That seems pretty delusional.

This is what I don't understand about the people on the fire Pete train. I think people are convinced that Russ + new HC gives the Hawks something like a 90% chance to be what GB and Rodgers are after they made the change. There's just no reason to believe that taking into account the history of just the QBs at Russell's level. It's more of a convenient rationalization for being sick of Pete, which 8s unnecessary. Being sick of Pete is a perfectly fine reason to want him out if you're a fan. No need to mask it with anything else.

With 1 SB win in my lifetime, I'm in the let's gamble camp and burn it down to the studs. I'm sick of Russell's fake ass, sick of watching this iteration of the team, and sick of the group think circle jerk. I'm ready to be in the anticipation phase of newness. If it takes many years to get back to what we've been recently, so be it. At least the complaints will be different and the people to complain about will be different

In my opinion, PC is done. He has been gambling with trades and draft strategies to win while he still lives. Right there he needs and needed to be relieved. A proper approach is the build for the future, which to PC and at his age is right now. This approach has stripped the team of many draft choices, and the drafting has gotten worse every year since his early success.

I remember the ex Cowboy coach speaking early in Petes reign, that he had an advantage FOR NOW, because he was out to see players when they were young, recruiting them, and evaluating them in a personal way. He went on to say that once he was in the league for a while, that advantage would fade. Coach Johnson was spot on then, and his prediction tracked perfectly with reality. PC should have retired after the lost Super Bowl, the team would have rebooted and had stronger years. He lost a lot of the locker room, and a sterner more rigid minded Coach could have done a better job.

 

[hawker84]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShowtimeTate/status/1453942873229967360[/tweet]

Let me guess, though - this player doesn't count?

Division banners and one and dones are awesome. Yawn.

As far as Golden Tate, criticizing and calling out a ineffective coaching staff over the last 6-7 years is not jumping off the bandwagon? Makes me less of a fan? Hilarious a tially



It is possible to call out coaches and players and still be a die hard fan. I know some people have trouble with that,
according to them you have to be a blind homer to be a true fan. SMDH.

And there are a bunch like me, who have bled the blue & green (die-hard fans) who've suffered through some really CRAP Seasons, DID NOT QUIT THEN, & WILL NOT QUIT NOW....To Each His Own............. SMDH :stirthepot:

Exactly how am I quitting on this team? Please explain, I'll wait. I've had season tickets back when the Seahawks played in the kingdome. So you wanna talk bleeding blue and green? Please spare me the drama.

So according to you,, pointing out glaring kinks in our current teams armour is quitting on them or jumping ship? Makes me less of a fan? That statement is asinine and just plain silly. I know that concept is tough for some homers to wrap their head around on here, but again, it is possible to criticize your team and still be a die hard fan.

 

[Optimus25]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShowtimeTate/status/1453942873229967360[/tweet]

Let me guess, though - this player doesn't count?

Division banners and one and dones are awesome. Yawn.

As far as Golden Tate, criticizing and calling out a ineffective coaching staff over the last 6-7 years is not jumping off the bandwagon. It is possible to call out coaches and players and still be a die hard fan. I know some people have trouble with that,
according to them you have to be a blind homer to be a true fan. SMDH.

Bingo

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I actually was proud to see Tate defend Pete and the Hawks a little.

But my guess is it came from more of a place of look where he ended his career, dumpster fire teams like the Lions and Giants. So I think post retirement has given Golden some time to reflect on how good he had it here playing for a winner and SB's.

 

[John63]

I actually was proud to see Tate defend Pete and the Hawks a little.

But my guess is it came from more of a place of look where he ended his career, dumpster fire teams like the Lions and Giants. So I think post retirement has given Golden some time to reflect on how good he had it here playing for a winner and SB's.

Could be, as I said my only problem is he has not been here for 7-8 years so he has no clue what's going on now.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I actually was proud to see Tate defend Pete and the Hawks a little.

But my guess is it came from more of a place of look where he ended his career, dumpster fire teams like the Lions and Giants. So I think post retirement has given Golden some time to reflect on how good he had it here playing for a winner and SB's.

Could be, as I said my only problem is he has not been here for 7-8 years so he has no clue what's going on now.

But he didn't comment on anything inside the team, just giving a fan some perspective about making the playoffs 9 of 11 years is not something to complain about.

And ask guys like Kam, Doug and Cliff Avril about what's going on, ex teammates and players know way more than you think they know about what's going on with their ex teams.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm not a big Tate fan, but he's absolutely right. I guess that means he's "just happy making the playoffs" right?
(it's a joke, relax)

 

[bmorepunk]

Division banners and one and dones are awesome. Yawn.

They've had two "one and dones" in the last 15 years. That still means they play in one playoff game and lose, right?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The Debbie is strong in that one.........

 

[ivotuk]

Going to the playoffs is great, but when they've become early exits, it feels like something is missing. Patriots won super bowls during their 11 year run.

Patriots were in the easiest NFL division every year! Jets/Buffalo/Miami..

Easy wins = Home Field Advantage!

Easy wins also = 2nd and 3rd string players getting more playing time.

2nd and 3rd string players getting more playing time = Rested and Healthy players at the end of the season.


Seahawks have been in the toughest division for years!

Look at how many Superbowl participants the NFCW has produced. Rams/Cardinals/49ers

Teams from the NFCW are beat up and bruised by the end of the season from playing each other.

 

[scutterhawk]

While true.. to the posters above.

You'd rather be 8 and 8 every year and just not go... sitting in the middle of the draft board? Gotcha..

I don't stop watching football at the end of the regular season. If I did, I'd be a much bigger advocate of PC.

It's not so black and white as you and others make it out to be. It's not guaranteed that we're going to go suddenly from winning seasons to years of mediocrity. So the narrative that getting rid of PC means "Oh no, back to what the team looked like BEFORE PC for years and years" is dumb and ridiculously outdated.

I think the lifespan of a HC that isn't succeeding is about ~3 years these days. Give or take, depending on the organization.

Trouble with your theory Myrtle, is even IF we $hit-can Pete, and bring in a new HC, there is zero guarantee that we'd have more success...& hell, it's a possibility that we could even do worse.
I believe that Pete knows a hell of a lot more than some pi$$ed off fans do.
I refuse to borrow the angst from quitters, & know-it-alls, who really DON'T know-it-all.
Golden Tate has first hand, INSIDE KNOWLEDGE, that RINGS TRUER TO ME, than some .NET malcontents.