Would you be in favor of trading Russell and rebuilding now?

[RiverDog]

Be careful what you wish for. This team is going to suck for a long while if he is traded.

I, for one, am not "wishing" for Russell to be traded. My first choice is that we turn this thing around, that we make at least a solid run at the Super Bowl this season, and that Russell finishes his career as a Seahawk. Secondly, this trade talk all depends on Russell and how he feels about playing for us. The only way I'd agree to trade him, and in fact the only way we can trade him, is if he wants out.

Although "sucking for a long while" is definitely a possibility, I don't think it is by any means a certainty. The Packers didn't seem to do too badly after Bret Favre moved on, and the Colts didn't suck for a long time after Manning left. Admittedly the Patriots slipped from being a SB contender post Brady, but I hardly think that a 7-9 record and just missing the playoffs qualifies as "sucking".

 

[chris98251]

Be careful what you wish for. This team is going to suck for a long while if he is traded.

I, for one, am not "wishing" for Russell to be traded. My first choice is that we turn this thing around, that we make at least a solid run at the Super Bowl this season, and that Russell finishes his career as a Seahawk. Secondly, this trade talk all depends on Russell and how he feels about playing for us. The only way I'd agree to trade him, and in fact the only way we can trade him, is if he wants out.

Although "sucking for a long while" is definitely a possibility, I don't think it is by any means a certainty. The Packers didn't seem to do too badly after Bret Favre moved on, and the Colts didn't suck for a long time after Manning left. Admittedly the Patriots slipped from being a SB contender post Brady, but I hardly think that a 7-9 record and just missing the playoffs qualifies as "sucking".

Rodgers was on the Bench when they let Farve go, Irsay had a plan and Sucked for Luck, little bit different when you have that ace in the hole already there or knowing you have a plan. Brady left, their plan is a work in process, Patriots will sign a Vet, wait and see.

 

[Jerhawk]

Be careful what you wish for. This team is going to suck for a long while if he is traded.

We don't know that. There's lots of good talent coming out of college now days at the QB position.

For the record I do not want Russell gone, but I don't agree that it would be the end of the story

Depends on who's 2-3 first rounders we got.

Top 5 perennial loser franchise? Sure, three first rounders means something. But all the teams on Russell's list were contenders, so then you have three picks in the 20's......and we all know what Pete and John do with 1st rounders when we're in the 20's. Trade down 87 times to accumulate the most 5th round picks as possible.

So no thanks, I'll take the franchise QB in his prime for another 6-7 years over three more Malik McDowells and Germaine Ifedi's.

Oh yeah I'm with you 100%. I'm talking about long term in 4 or 5 years, there will be a quarterback in the 1st round that we can draft.

What I'm saying is the likelihood of getting a really good quarterback in the 1st round coming out of college is much higher now than it was in the past.

I agree with Soulfish a lot on here, but I disagree that we will suck "for a long time" if Wilson gets traded

 

[massari]

Only if they can get Deshaun Watson to replace him.

 

[Tinamedina]

Where's John63? I would have thought he would be all over this?

I already posted this once. I see no reason to weigh in on things when there is such blatant Bs going on. Example QWIlson is a prima donna. Really according to who and what. Being the first in and out fo the training facilities is being a prima donna, bringing all your Wr out to practice during the off-season is being a primadonna, volunteering your time at hospital si being a prima donna. Seems to me people like to make crap up and don't even know what the word they use mean. I don't have time for it.

Like I said in the other thread, people will believe what they want and even make crap up to justify what they want to think.

As to the OP question, it depends on what kind of rebuild do you want.

If you want to start from scratch with no base to build on, get rid of everyone especially PC.

You want a base you keep Wilson.

PC has shown nothing since his inside knowledge of college players was used up. His drafts have been bad, his Fas have been bad, and he still can't come up with a defense that is worth a crap.


So like said you want a rebuild from scratch you get rid of everyone.

You want a base you keep Wilson but probably look for the air appeared in the next 2- years.


Either way PC and KNJ need to go.

The people who call Russ a prima donna are playing into unfortunate undertones that like I've always said...isn't about football. It's about their personal biases.

The guy who trains super hard in the offseason, goes to the hospital every Tuesday, is one of the hardest workers on the team. That guy is a prima donna who should know his place.

But Aaron Rodgers gets to say things like "I was the one who called the plays," taking all the credit. He also gets to say things like "My down years are career years for most QBs." He gets to call out the media, get his coach fired..and fans around the league fawn for the guy. Yet when Russ spoke up, I saw comments here and elsewhere saying he's an arrogant prima donna who should shut up and play. Like I said, major undertones and biases from people who are afraid to say what their real issue is with Russ. Or unwilling to see how differently they speak about certain QBs.

Thank you. I said once, ill say it again, those people have a problem with black qb's calling the shots. Its okay for a qb to speak his mind and call the shots, so long as he is white. the nfl has a conservative fan base and always has. seattle acts like they are this liberal city, but they are just like everyones else.

 

[Tinamedina]

Exactly. So the question is, should we trust Pete, Russ and John to turn this squad into a contender? Cause if not, there is no point in keeping the team mediocre just because that way it does not completely suck. I’m fine with a couple of years of complete sucking if it results in getting a contender team. And there is no rebuild with a franchise quarterback in his prime. That makes no sense for the player or for the team.

I’m not yet sure. But now for the first time in the Pete Carroll era, I’m considering it as a realistic option.. Anyway the real question is: Is Jody Allen ready to pull the plug on the backbone of this, or any successful, team? That being HC/GM/QB. I think if there is a change, it should be total and at once. Wilson's salary does not fit in a rebuild.

Keeping RW isn't an option if we rebuild because he'll keep finding ways to win. That's what he's been doing for the last 5 years. It's what we want to love about the guy but in this situation it's doing more harm than good.

We went 12-4 last year. Does anybody really feel like that was a 12-4 team?

It's a sad situation but it would really be best for both parties to go separate ways.

And people keep saying russell wilson is not elite.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Only if Carroll is gone. Carroll is on the wrong side of 70 and quite frankly given our drafts since 2013, he hasn't been too stellar here. He reminds me of 90s Shula at the moment.

I do think if things don't go well this season that Wilson may try to force himself out, regardless.

 

[RiverDog]

Rodgers was on the Bench when they let Farve go, Irsay had a plan and Sucked for Luck, little bit different when you have that ace in the hole already there or knowing you have a plan. Brady left, their plan is a work in process, Patriots will sign a Vet, wait and see.

And so if Russelll leaves it means that we don't have a plan?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Rodgers was on the Bench when they let Farve go, Irsay had a plan and Sucked for Luck, little bit different when you have that ace in the hole already there or knowing you have a plan. Brady left, their plan is a work in process, Patriots will sign a Vet, wait and see.

And so if Russelll leaves it means that we don't have a plan?

They dont have a plan now with Russell, how are they going to have one if he leaves?

 

[RiverDog]

Rodgers was on the Bench when they let Farve go, Irsay had a plan and Sucked for Luck, little bit different when you have that ace in the hole already there or knowing you have a plan. Brady left, their plan is a work in process, Patriots will sign a Vet, wait and see.

And so if Russelll leaves it means that we don't have a plan?

They dont have a plan now with Russell, how are they going to have one if he leaves?

Fair enough.

But my point was to show that we won't necessarily "suck for a long time" if Russell leaves. Our football world does not begin and end with him. It all depends on who we get to replace him, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a Pro Bowl veteran or a top 5 draft pick.

 

[hawksmode]

Wow, I put YES thinking I was going to be the only one...Great to see it is 50/50 :irishdrinkers:

I feel it is time for him to move on...for him, and for the team...He is not going to win here and we need to suck for a couple years in order to get young through the draft. This mediocre ( well, just above ) play is getting old and kind a boring to watch. The only thing I worry about is how much they lose trading him...( may as well just let him play out? )

 

[Grahamhawker]

Only if Carroll is gone. Carroll is on the wrong side of 70 and quite frankly given our drafts since 2013, he hasn't been too stellar here. He reminds me of 90s Shula at the moment.

I do think if things don't go well this season that Wilson may try to force himself out, regardless.

This^

 

[pittpnthrs]

Rodgers was on the Bench when they let Farve go, Irsay had a plan and Sucked for Luck, little bit different when you have that ace in the hole already there or knowing you have a plan. Brady left, their plan is a work in process, Patriots will sign a Vet, wait and see.

And so if Russelll leaves it means that we don't have a plan?

They dont have a plan now with Russell, how are they going to have one if he leaves?

Fair enough.

But my point was to show that we won't necessarily "suck for a long time" if Russell leaves. Our football world does not begin and end with him. It all depends on who we get to replace him, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a Pro Bowl veteran or a top 5 draft pick.

Its hard to replace somebody like Wilson. Do you realize how many games he has won the team in his tenure? Its hard to say how it would turn out now because Carroll wont be here much longer, but if he was going to be, I couldnt see him coaching the team to anything better than 6 or 7 wins without a QB of significant talent.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Wilson is an enigma.

It literally made zero sense for him to re-sign here, yet he did.

The team literally blew it when it could have traded Wilson to the Jets and then used those picks to get Mahomes, who I thought would be kind of a poor-man's Wilson or Wilson-lite (was clearly wrong on that one).

Even getting a new coach, this team has been stripped bare and left with lots of older players in decline barely propping it up.

Carroll is already destroying Wilson's legacy. I cannot imagine Wilson would want to stay for a rebuild and add to the losing piling up on his resume. But Wilson makes decisions that make no sense to me sometimes. So maybe?

I've been vocal about Pete not having any upside, for a few years now.

But as others have pointed out, we are probably at a tipping point where it will be difficult to keep Wilson regardless. Not impossible though.

The longer we stay in the pool with Pete, the more difficult it will be to get out though. And it is just a slim hope that a great coach might be so enamored with Wilson that he comes here despite the giant holes in the roster that will need to be fixed (and wholesale changes in the coaching staff).

But trading Wilson gets you nothing but more time on the clock for Pete to drag this thing deeper down. It makes little sense on any level because you would be trusting someone with a record of making bad trades to get draft picks, all the while knowing they have a terrible record in the draft as well.

Whatever we got for Wilson would be squandered. It would make no sense.

 

[Beren]

Why? He is literally the only thing worth keeping in this franchise.

You cannot build a team off Chris Carson and a bunch of good to great WRs with no QB.

The Defense is worthless. The ONLY thing you have to build on is your QB is great, your weapons are solid and you might be able to rebuild the defense with Carroll kicked to the curb.

The only reason a good or very good coach would even coach here is because he has a great QB to lure him.

You don't trade the only thing propping your whole team up.

Quick thread. Nailed it.

 

[keasley45]

Where's John63? I would have thought he would be all over this?

I already posted this once. I see no reason to weigh in on things when there is such blatant Bs going on. Example QWIlson is a prima donna. Really according to who and what. Being the first in and out fo the training facilities is being a prima donna, bringing all your Wr out to practice during the off-season is being a primadonna, volunteering your time at hospital si being a prima donna. Seems to me people like to make crap up and don't even know what the word they use mean. I don't have time for it.

Like I said in the other thread, people will believe what they want and even make crap up to justify what they want to think.

As to the OP question, it depends on what kind of rebuild do you want.

If you want to start from scratch with no base to build on, get rid of everyone especially PC.

You want a base you keep Wilson.

PC has shown nothing since his inside knowledge of college players was used up. His drafts have been bad, his Fas have been bad, and he still can't come up with a defense that is worth a crap.


So like said you want a rebuild from scratch you get rid of everyone.

You want a base you keep Wilson but probably look for the air appeared in the next 2- years.


Either way PC and KNJ need to go.

The people who call Russ a prima donna are playing into unfortunate undertones that like I've always said...isn't about football. It's about their personal biases.

The guy who trains super hard in the offseason, goes to the hospital every Tuesday, is one of the hardest workers on the team. That guy is a prima donna who should know his place.

But Aaron Rodgers gets to say things like "I was the one who called the plays," taking all the credit. He also gets to say things like "My down years are career years for most QBs." He gets to call out the media, get his coach fired..and fans around the league fawn for the guy. Yet when Russ spoke up, I saw comments here and elsewhere saying he's an arrogant prima donna who should shut up and play. Like I said, major undertones and biases from people who are afraid to say what their real issue is with Russ. Or unwilling to see how differently they speak about certain QBs.

Thank you. I said once, ill say it again, those people have a problem with black qb's calling the shots. Its okay for a qb to speak his mind and call the shots, so long as he is white. the nfl has a conservative fan base and always has. seattle acts like they are this liberal city, but they are just like everyones else.

Those people? You're literally perpetrating the same nonsense you claim to be pointing out.

I'm black and take issue with RWs media act because it seems scripted and more often than not is a regurgitation of the things he's said in the past.

I also don't think he's in the same class as Rodgers, Brady or Brees, but few qbs are.

But for you to claim I feel that way because I have some race based bias is, quite frankly, insulting.

Is race an issue in this country? Yes.
Is it still an issue in the NFL? Yes
Is it particularly entrenched in the perceptions around leadership positions on and off the field? Absolutley.

But my negative perceptions of Russ have to do with his actions and his game.

You make it seem as tbough Rodgers has somehow been hailed a hero for his comments this offseason and his running McCarthy out of town when in reality with every passing year, he's lost more support for his antics than he's gained and even members of the media have been openly critical of his BS.

Will his opinion about his oaching staff or coordinator be taken more seriously than the average qb? Absolutley. Why? Because the guy is a generational talent that I'd argue has never shown the consistent shortcomings in his game that have welcomed the criticism that Russel has received over the years. He is literally a master of the position at almost every level.

Russel's ability was questioned early on because he was a game manager who had a knack for pulling out low scoring games in the 4th qtr... but had an all time great rb behind him and a legendary defense on the other side of the ball. And his ability is still questioned for reasons that are 100% valid and have everything to do with football.

His game has never been as well rounded as Rodgers. I love Russ, but do you think I'd for one second at any point NOT swap what Rodgers brings game in and out for RW? -off the field BS and arrogance aside.

That has zero to do with his skin color. ZERO.

and not that it should matter, but I'm black. Have the same frustrations with Russ that my dad does, who is also black.

D

 

[OrangeGravy]

I already posted this once. I see no reason to weigh in on things when there is such blatant Bs going on. Example QWIlson is a prima donna. Really according to who and what. Being the first in and out fo the training facilities is being a prima donna, bringing all your Wr out to practice during the off-season is being a primadonna, volunteering your time at hospital si being a prima donna. Seems to me people like to make crap up and don't even know what the word they use mean. I don't have time for it.

Like I said in the other thread, people will believe what they want and even make crap up to justify what they want to think.

As to the OP question, it depends on what kind of rebuild do you want.

If you want to start from scratch with no base to build on, get rid of everyone especially PC.

You want a base you keep Wilson.

PC has shown nothing since his inside knowledge of college players was used up. His drafts have been bad, his Fas have been bad, and he still can't come up with a defense that is worth a crap.


So like said you want a rebuild from scratch you get rid of everyone.

You want a base you keep Wilson but probably look for the air appeared in the next 2- years.


Either way PC and KNJ need to go.

The people who call Russ a prima donna are playing into unfortunate undertones that like I've always said...isn't about football. It's about their personal biases.

The guy who trains super hard in the offseason, goes to the hospital every Tuesday, is one of the hardest workers on the team. That guy is a prima donna who should know his place.

But Aaron Rodgers gets to say things like "I was the one who called the plays," taking all the credit. He also gets to say things like "My down years are career years for most QBs." He gets to call out the media, get his coach fired..and fans around the league fawn for the guy. Yet when Russ spoke up, I saw comments here and elsewhere saying he's an arrogant prima donna who should shut up and play. Like I said, major undertones and biases from people who are afraid to say what their real issue is with Russ. Or unwilling to see how differently they speak about certain QBs.

Thank you. I said once, ill say it again, those people have a problem with black qb's calling the shots. Its okay for a qb to speak his mind and call the shots, so long as he is white. the nfl has a conservative fan base and always has. seattle acts like they are this liberal city, but they are just like everyones else.

Those people? You're literally perpetrating the same nonsense you claim to be pointing out.

I'm black and take issue with RWs media act because it seems scripted and more often than not is a regurgitation of the things he's said in the past.

I also don't think he's in the same class as Rodgers, Brady or Brees, but few qbs are.

But for you to claim I feel that way because I have some race based bias is, quite frankly, insulting.

Is race an issue in this country? Yes.
Is it still an issue in the NFL? Yes
Is it particularly entrenched in the perceptions around leadership positions on and off the field? Absolutley.

But my negative perceptions of Russ have to do with his actions and his game.

You make it seem as tbough Rodgers has somehow been hailed a hero for his comments this offseason and his running McCarthy out of town when in reality with every passing year, he's lost more support for his antics than he's gained and even members of the media have been openly critical of his BS.

Will his opinion about his oaching staff or coordinator be taken more seriously than the average qb? Absolutley. Why? Because the guy is a generational talent that I'd argue has never shown the consistent shortcomings in his game that have welcomed the criticism that Russel has received over the years. He is literally a master of the position at almost every level.

Russel's ability was questioned early on because he was a game manager who had a knack for pulling out low scoring games in the 4th qtr... but had an all time great rb behind him and a legendary defense on the other side of the ball. And his ability is still questioned for reasons that are 100% valid and have everything to do with football.

His game has never been as well rounded as Rodgers. I love Russ, but do you think I'd for one second at any point NOT swap what Rodgers brings game in and out for RW? -off the field BS and arrogance aside.

That has zero to do with his skin color. ZERO.

and not that it should matter, but I'm black. Have the same frustrations with Russ that my dad does, who is also black.

D

Put my dad and I on that list as well ,, :ditto:

 

[chris98251]

There are going to be some pissed of Moms out there if this keeps up.

 

[RiverDog]

Fair enough.

But my point was to show that we won't necessarily "suck for a long time" if Russell leaves. Our football world does not begin and end with him. It all depends on who we get to replace him, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a Pro Bowl veteran or a top 5 draft pick.

Its hard to replace somebody like Wilson. Do you realize how many games he has won the team in his tenure? Its hard to say how it would turn out now because Carroll wont be here much longer, but if he was going to be, I couldnt see him coaching the team to anything better than 6 or 7 wins without a QB of significant talent.

You're right it is hard to replace someone like Russell. But not impossible. I fully realize how many games he's won for us during his tenure, and I'll be forever grateful to him for what he's done for our franchise. Additionally, he's one of my personal favorite all time Seahawks. He's a very likable person, donates time to very worthy causes (like Children's), respects his elders, isn't in the least bit offensive to anyone. He's a great guy, someone that I'd love to sit down and have a beer with, someone that you want your son or daughter to grow up like.

But if we keep underperforming and he wants out, which at this point seems more likely than not, then I'm all for trading him. Long ago, I lost my personal attachment to players, indeed, I don't even wear their name or number as it makes me feel as if I'm worshiping them as I would a deity. I am 100% about the team.

I'm also fully aware of the consequences of trading him, that we could really implode, turn into the Detroit Lions or New York Jets. It's a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[OrangeGravy]

There are going to be some pissed of Moms out there if this keeps up.

My mom is white. She may feel the same, but the list is the list! She's on the shared list