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Jordyn Brooks - Fantastic play (Brooks > Queen)

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  • This is a good example of the flashes he's been making in coverage. Instinctual and fast. We saw his run defense chops against Kyler, and here's a splash in coverage. Well rounded.

    I think he's the right LB. Love him over Queen.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Not sure he is better then Queen, but I like the idea of him taking over for Bobby after this season. BWagz is not longer 4.4 speed and that $17 M per year next year could save us $10 in cap.
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  • I'd rather have Queen but glad Brooks is making some progress.
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  • Cyrus12 wrote:I'd rather have Queen but glad Brooks is making some progress.


    Honest question - why?

    He's playing like one of the absolute worst linebackers in the league. He's absolutely lost in coverage. They've had to take him out in crucial defensive stands because of precisely how lost he is in coverage. PFF backs this eye-test up with a grade of 28.9 - the worst I've ever personally seen.



    Film study on him, highlighting some of his abundant coverage woes.

    His splash plays are deceiving. He has potential, but he has been woefully bad overall. Brooks is not only the better scheme fit, but has been the more competent player in his early action.

    Hell, even Ravens fans are souring on him. Check out the most recent game thread from Ravens fans.

    https://forum.russellstreetreport.com/s ... -15/page49
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Wenhawk wrote:Not sure he is better then Queen, but I like the idea of him taking over for Bobby after this season. BWagz is not longer 4.4 speed and that $17 M per year next year could save us $10 in cap.


    I'm absolutely, 100% sure he is better than Queen as things stand. It's early, so I'm not willing to state that Brooks is definitively the better player, but he has been the better player so far.
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:

    This is a good example of the flashes he's been making in coverage. Instinctual and fast. We saw his run defense chops against Kyler, and here's a splash in coverage. Well rounded.

    I think he's the right LB. Love him over Queen.


    I like how Brooks turns his hips and gets his head around to see where the receiver is on this play. Too many underneath zone defenders when dropping try to play with butt radar, and fail miserably. See man and ball.
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  • Brooks played well against the Rams. I'm expecting big things from him next season.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Brooks played well against the Rams. I'm expecting big things from him next season.


    Agreed. He's rapidly looking better week to week.
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  • Love what I'm seeing from him. It's gonna' be nice to see him continue to grow as a player.
    I'm stoked he's a Hawks, I'm sure the Ravens are stoked they have Queen. Both guys could turn out to be ballers.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Love what I'm seeing from him. It's gonna' be nice to see him continue to grow as a player.
    I'm stoked he's a Hawks, I'm sure the Ravens are stoked they have Queen. Both guys could turn out to be ballers.


    I'm sure a few are stoked on Queen because of his few splash plays, but he's played horrendously between. Like, absolutely terrible.

    No one here should envy Patrick Queen. One of the main reasons I made the thread was to lightly compare/contrast and fight the narrative that Queen is excelling, because he is absolutely not.
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  • Could be just not liking the pick from the get go, and not wanting to give Pete and John a little credit?
    I know it's a fun hobby to Blast the front office so...….
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Could be just not liking the pick from the get go, and not wanting to give Pete and John a little credit?
    I know it's a fun hobby to Blast the front office so...….


    That's what usually happens when they pass on prospects with higher name recognition, I suppose.

    I just feel obligated to pump the brakes on the "missing on Queen" narrative because its becoming... well, just not based in fact
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  • Absolutely, never have understood dwelling on guys that went to other teams.
    Like it or not, they picked who they picked. And he's gonna' be a hell of a player.
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  • There were three or four plays that I noticed how sudden he is, like this one. As he gets more confident and comfortable, he keeps looking faster and faster.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Absolutely, never have understood dwelling on guys that went to other teams.
    Like it or not, they picked who they picked. And he's gonna' be a hell of a player.


    Certainly looks that way. He's got the mix of speed and instinct that can't be taught. My hopes are high.
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  • You can see why he was compared to Bobby. Shoot, if he ends up even 70 percent of what Bobby has been, yes please.
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  • I have full confidence in him next year starting in place of KJ.
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  • I think you guys are too high on brooks. Kyler made a fool out of him in the open field and I’ve seen him whiff on easy tackles. He made a nice pass breakup in the Rams game, but I’m not too impressed yet. Jordyn Brooks has a ways to go before he’s a good player in the league.
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  • And I think you're giving up on him too early. It goes both ways.
    Is Queen a future HOF already?
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:I think you guys are too high on brooks. Kyler made a fool out of him in the open field and I’ve seen him whiff on easy tackles. He made a nice pass breakup in the Rams game, but I’m not too impressed yet. Jordyn Brooks has a ways to go before he’s a good player in the league.


    Oh, he has a ways to go. For sure. I'm just saying that what he's putting on tape is highly encouraging, especially compared to Queen, the player he's going to be compared to for his career.

    The Cardinals game was up and down. Mostly up, though. He navigated through blockers very successfully to get to Kyler a few times. You're not gonna tackle open field Kyler 100% of the time - he's a special talent in that regard. I think Brooks held up very nicely for a rookie coming off injury in a year with no preseason.

    His game against the Rams was even more encouraging. He gets through the scrum well to affect plays. He's got a nose for the ball.



    His PFF grade is coverage wasn't great - in the 40s, but it's not Patrick Queen level horrendous, and I tend to take it easier on him because the whole defense is falling apart. But, again... he's showing flashes of the instinct and closing speed necessary to be a cornerstone linebacker in this league, and he's showing them more frequently as the year goes on and he racks up snaps.



    Here's a better breakdown of his best play in coverage v. LA.

    Not saying he's a complete player yet, but he deserves more playing time and is not playing like a bust.
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  • That video...didn't they drop back to zone? Looked like Queen did his job to me.

    I'm not high on Brooks... I'm unbiased as far as who's better but, I do feel Queen has an edge right now.

    Unwittingly, I'm a "hes ranked higher why did you select this dude kind of draft guy".

    I'd like to see Brooks excel. Were going to need him.
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  • Elemas wrote:
    I'm not high on Brooks... I'm unbiased as far as who's better but, I do feel Queen has an edge right now.


    Without bias Brooks is currently the objectively better player.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:I think you guys are too high on brooks. Kyler made a fool out of him in the open field and I’ve seen him whiff on easy tackles. He made a nice pass breakup in the Rams game, but I’m not too impressed yet. Jordyn Brooks has a ways to go before he’s a good player in the league.


    Murray has made a fool out of everyone in the open field - he's on track to beat Michael Vick's rushing record (and needs 100 more passing yards to beat Vick's season TOTAL from the same year).
    That's like saying reigning DPOY Stephon Gilmore isn't impressive because Russell Wilson made a fool out of him multiple times with the deep ball.
    Murray will probably make a fool out of a lot of players once again on Thursday - the Seahawks actually kept him in check better than most teams have this season (his 4.8 YPA the 2nd lowest average of the season, although he did have more rushing attempts against Seattle than any other team), but I don't think that is the barometer by which we should judge any player, let alone a rookie.

    If Brooks is able to make Murray look mortal then it will go to show he has a VERY bright future in the league, but anything less than that won't tell us very much at all.
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  • themunn wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think you guys are too high on brooks. Kyler made a fool out of him in the open field and I’ve seen him whiff on easy tackles. He made a nice pass breakup in the Rams game, but I’m not too impressed yet. Jordyn Brooks has a ways to go before he’s a good player in the league.


    Murray has made a fool out of everyone in the open field - he's on track to beat Michael Vick's rushing record (and needs 100 more passing yards to beat Vick's season TOTAL from the same year).
    That's like saying reigning DPOY Stephon Gilmore isn't impressive because Russell Wilson made a fool out of him multiple times with the deep ball.
    Murray will probably make a fool out of a lot of players once again on Thursday - the Seahawks actually kept him in check better than most teams have this season (his 4.8 YPA the 2nd lowest average of the season, although he did have more rushing attempts against Seattle than any other team), but I don't think that is the barometer by which we should judge any player, let alone a rookie.

    If Brooks is able to make Murray look mortal then it will go to show he has a VERY bright future in the league, but anything less than that won't tell us very much at all.

    But here is the thing, Brooks didn't make him look like a mere mortal. I think everyone here is grasping at straws when talking about Brooks. I've seen some good and some really bad plays from Brooks. He's been a mixed bag, I'm not really counting on him ever becoming anything more than just an average NFL LB, which would be better than many of our first rounders.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:But here is the thing, Brooks didn't make him look like a mere mortal. I think everyone here is grasping at straws when talking about Brooks. I've seen some good and some really bad plays from Brooks. He's been a mixed bag, I'm not really counting on him ever becoming anything more than just an average NFL LB, which would be better than many of our first rounders.


    Yes, that's what I'm saying. Nobody has been making him look like a mere mortal.

    He's on track for 5,300 scrimmage yards, 48 total TDs, 14 interceptions.
    Patrick Mahomes in 2018 - 5369 scrimmage yards, 52 total TDs ,12 interceptions
    Lamar Jackson in 2019 - 4300 scrimmage yards, 43 total TDs, 6 interceptions

    He is playing at MVP level and the fact that Brooks hasn't made him look like a mere mortal just puts him in the same bracket as every other LB in the league. He's got another chance tomorrow to do so - if he does then Brooks will have announced himself as a potential future All-Pro and maybe the next Bobby Wagner - a player who is a lock for the hall of fame.
    That's quite a high bar for any player though and if he falls short of it that doesn't necessarily mean he's just got a future as "an average NFL LB" - KJ Wright is an example of a player with just one pro-bowl (alternate) to his name, but he's in his 10th season as a starter, closing in on 1,000 career tackles, and has been a key starter for the Seahawks for a long time, but you wouldn't put him in the same league as Wagner and it's not fair to do the same to Brooks either, because NO linebacker drafted in the last 10 years compares to Wagner.
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  • NFL pundits: Queen is great and possible RoY.
    Some Seahawks fans: Brooks is better. Watch this video of Brooks best play and Queens worst play and you will agree. Also ignore all of the stats please because those don’t matter.

    Find one non PC homer saying that please. Most Seahawks fans won’t.
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  • Or we could just pull for Brooks and stop dwelling on a guy who plays on another team?
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  • Didn't Brooks make a big play running down Murray and forcing a throw-away on 3rd and goal on the goal-line stand following DK's tackle?
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  • To be honest if I ran the Seahawks I would be moving on from Wagner next year and Brooks would be my starting MLB.
    I know Pete will never do that though.
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:NFL pundits: Queen is great and possible RoY.
    Some Seahawks fans: Brooks is better. Watch this video of Brooks best play and Queens worst play and you will agree. Also ignore all of the stats please because those don’t matter.

    Find one non PC homer saying that please. Most Seahawks fans won’t.


    What a horrendous misrepresentation of everything that has been said in this thread. You should honestly be ashamed of that.

    As if you'd ever be defending a single Seahawks player with a freakin' TWENTY. EIGHT. POINT. 9. PFF grade. You'd be calling for the front office's head if they drafted a linebacker who has played like one of the worst in the league, regardless of him having a couple of forced fumbles.

    The guy is absolutely lost on the field during passing downs. Ravens fans agree. Check their forums yourself if you don't believe it.
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  • Ooooh boy.

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  • How did Ole Miss lose any games with Brown and Metcalf on the team? You'd be hard pressed to find 2 WR better on a college team.
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  • I consider myself a realist....even getting called a troll in these forums at times because I’m not a homer all the time. Even I can totally see amazing potential in Brooks. I think you just want to set the bar low mentally so you don’t let yourselfs down. If you want to play weird mental games with yourselves that’s fine, just be ready to eat some crow. As far as the Kyler Murray comment he juked the crap out of All P͏ro/Pro Bowler Jamal Adams https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=is7n4bYTPe0 and you can watch highlights of him juking everyone.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wRgWDABukOQ
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  • If it's not the draft pick that THEY wanted, the dwelling on a player from another team and/or the putting down of the Hawks draft pick is gonna' happen. Over and over again. Meh, looks like both guys are gonna' be solid players.
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  • Hah! Not today, DJ Humphries. The way he stood up the back, who had a full head of steam building, directly after pulling a Houdini on Humphries?

    The kids got it.
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  • Brooks was definitely my favorite pick of the draft. Glad to see he is starting to get some real playing time. He is going to be another monster linebacker for us.
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  • Old thread...sorry for the revival.

    While I like Brooks and assume Pete and John think his ceiling is high, I'm not sure we made the right choice. I will say that I was comfortable with the pick when they made it. It wasn't the same reaction I had with LJ.

    At this point, right now, without a doubt...Queen is the better player and it's not even close. I'm all for having pride and am beyond hopeful that Brooks can be that guy who replaces B-Wags but if we're talking who is the better player right now, you're smoking that good Northwest Sticky Icky Icky if you say Brooks.
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  • I liked the Brooks pick on draft day he was clearly one of the best LB's available when Seattle took him. There were quite a few naysayers at the time i just didn't understand the concern on the guy he checked every box. That doesn't mean he will be a great player but considering some of the Seahawks picks over the years his physical skills and college pedigree were rock solid. The selection looked good there were other needs there always are but they drafted a good LB and they needed one.
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  • Elemas wrote:Old thread...sorry for the revival.

    While I like Brooks and assume Pete and John think his ceiling is high, I'm not sure we made the right choice. I will say that I was comfortable with the pick when they made it. It wasn't the same reaction I had with LJ.

    At this point, right now, without a doubt...Queen is the better player and it's not even close. I'm all for having pride and am beyond hopeful that Brooks can be that guy who replaces B-Wags but if we're talking who is the better player right now, you're smoking that good Northwest Sticky Icky Icky if you say Brooks.


    Huh?

    The arguments I've made are completely grounded in reality based on the play of the two. Patrick Queen has been downright awful, and frankly, I'm not sure how one could successfully argue against that.

    I agree that it is not close - Brooks has played far better thus far. Seriously, if you want to dismiss that viewpoint as invalid, by all means do so with something to back it up like I have.

    I don't understand why people think Queen is doing well. It's hard to understate how genuinely terrible his play has been.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Why can't people just have an opinion on it? And why dwell on Queen? He's not a Hawks player, Brooks is.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Why can't people just have an opinion on it? And why dwell on Queen? He's not a Hawks player, Brooks is.


    People can totally have an opinion on it, just like I can call their opinion wrong, using evidence to back it up.

    As for the relevance of Queen, I don't know if you noticed how common the "why Brooks when Queen is there, boooo PCJS suck" lament is, but it was everywhere on draft day, and will continue to be a common statement, as if Queen is playing remotely well. The narrative from draft night is going to lead to Queen being the primary comparison to Brooks when judging his play and the success of the pick.

    I think its completely valid to point out that Queen has basically been a steaming dump on the field, compared to Brooks, who is actually flashing potential. As for discussion.. well, if people want to comment on this thread with the direct opposite of my viewpoint, is a retort not appropriate?
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  • I think the comparison is relevant and do appreciate you addressing it.

    I can find links that make Queen look like an absolute star and make Brooks look terrible.

    With an easy search, you can find posts here with negative feedback concerning Brooks.

    I like Brooks. I think he makes less mistakes. But, I give the overall game impact to Queen. Stats aren't everything but, there's evidence using that alone.
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  • Elemas wrote:I think the comparison is relevant and do appreciate you addressing it.

    I can find links that make Queen look like an absolute star and make Brooks look terrible.

    With an easy search, you can find posts here with negative feedback concerning Brooks.

    I like Brooks. I think he makes less mistakes. But, I give the overall game impact to Queen. Stats aren't everything but, there's evidence using that alone.


    He does have tackles and a couple of splash plays, but I liken it to the time Tedric Thompson got an interception. Any ILB is going to get tackles, and I think its really unfortunate that the national media is using his tackle count and fluke uncontested fumble return as a means of anointing him.

    On the majority of plays, Queen is either blowing a coverage or getting blown off the ball and walked back by linemen.

    Like I said, it's hard to overstate just how bad he has been, especially recently. Seriously - watch a recent game of his from beginning to end. The 27.7 PFF grade sounds outlandish, but it shows up.

    If Queen were the pick for Seattle, and he played like this while continuing to be fed snaps, the board would be beside itself. Absolutely on fire. Cary Williams but worse and at inside linebacker type on fire. Worse than Collier because at least he wasn't actively getting destroyed, he just wasn't on the field.

    Even the Ravens homers are mostly negative on him... at least on their reddit. Link at bottom.

    I still think he has a shot to put it together with a full offseason. I just don't want the narrative to go on that Patrick Queen was undoubtedly the better LB prospect because... well, he sucks so far... really bad.

    That being said, I respect your viewpoint and appreciate you speaking to the validity of the comparison. Whether it turns out good or bad for Seattle, these guys are naturally going to be judged along side one another due to the circumstances of their entry into the league.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ravens/comment ... urce=share
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  • Anyone care to analyze Brooks' play tonight? He made several good tackles, and dropped into coverage a time or two. He's looking more involved all the time.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:Anyone care to analyze Brooks' play tonight? He made several good tackles, and dropped into coverage a time or two. He's looking more involved all the time.

    I don't think he looked very good this game, particularly in coverage. He got burnt really bad for a long play on one particular occasion. It ended up a pass interference, which was lucky. It should have been six, but Wentz is threw a really bad pass. I don't think he had a great game.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:Anyone care to analyze Brooks' play tonight? He made several good tackles, and dropped into coverage a time or two. He's looking more involved all the time.

    I don't think he looked very good this game, particularly in coverage. He got burnt really bad for a long play on one particular occasion. It ended up a pass interference, which was lucky. It should have been six, but Wentz is threw a really bad pass. I don't think he had a great game.


    Does that one play define his evening for you? I agree, he should have got his head around on the PI, but he made several good stops on RBs, dropped back into coverage and made good open-field tackles.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:Anyone care to analyze Brooks' play tonight? He made several good tackles, and dropped into coverage a time or two. He's looking more involved all the time.

    I don't think he looked very good this game, particularly in coverage. He got burnt really bad for a long play on one particular occasion. It ended up a pass interference, which was lucky. It should have been six, but Wentz is threw a really bad pass. I don't think he had a great game.


    Does that one play define his evening for you? I agree, he should have got his head around on the PI, but he made several good stops on RBs, dropped back into coverage and made good open-field tackles.

    I thought he was very good, apart from the questionable PI.
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  • themunn wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:But here is the thing, Brooks didn't make him look like a mere mortal. I think everyone here is grasping at straws when talking about Brooks. I've seen some good and some really bad plays from Brooks. He's been a mixed bag, I'm not really counting on him ever becoming anything more than just an average NFL LB, which would be better than many of our first rounders.


    Yes, that's what I'm saying. Nobody has been making him look like a mere mortal.

    He's on track for 5,300 scrimmage yards, 48 total TDs, 14 interceptions.
    Patrick Mahomes in 2018 - 5369 scrimmage yards, 52 total TDs ,12 interceptions
    Lamar Jackson in 2019 - 4300 scrimmage yards, 43 total TDs, 6 interceptions

    He is playing at MVP level and the fact that Brooks hasn't made him look like a mere mortal just puts him in the same bracket as every other LB in the league. He's got another chance tomorrow to do so - if he does then Brooks will have announced himself as a potential future All-Pro and maybe the next Bobby Wagner - a player who is a lock for the hall of fame.
    That's quite a high bar for any player though and if he falls short of it that doesn't necessarily mean he's just got a future as "an average NFL LB" - KJ Wright is an example of a player with just one pro-bowl (alternate) to his name, but he's in his 10th season as a starter, closing in on 1,000 career tackles, and has been a key starter for the Seahawks for a long time, but you wouldn't put him in the same league as Wagner and it's not fair to do the same to Brooks either, because NO linebacker drafted in the last 10 years compares to Wagner.

    Kyler is in the top .1% of quickness in a small space, ON THE PLANET. You can't judge any player in the league on whether or not Murray juked him. That's not how it works. If Brooks, being 50+ lbs larger is even in the vicinity of Murray in the open field is encouraging. Brooks might not end up living up to what WE think he should be, but getting juked by Murray in the open field has nothing to do with that assessment.
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  • CPHawk wrote:How did Ole Miss lose any games with Brown and Metcalf on the team? You'd be hard pressed to find 2 WR better on a college team.

    QBs in the SEC are dog $h!t. If they could successfully poach the best west coast QBs, it would be a wrap. I think the top QBs (passing Qbs) take a pass on them because your numbers and exposure to NFL offenses are likely to be stunted in that conference.
    OrangeGravy
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:I think you guys are too high on brooks. Kyler made a fool out of him in the open field and I’ve seen him whiff on easy tackles. He made a nice pass breakup in the Rams game, but I’m not too impressed yet. Jordyn Brooks has a ways to go before he’s a good player in the league.


    Oh, he has a ways to go. For sure. I'm just saying that what he's putting on tape is highly encouraging, especially compared to Queen, the player he's going to be compared to for his career.

    The Cardinals game was up and down. Mostly up, though. He navigated through blockers very successfully to get to Kyler a few times. You're not gonna tackle open field Kyler 100% of the time - he's a special talent in that regard. I think Brooks held up very nicely for a rookie coming off injury in a year with no preseason.

    His game against the Rams was even more encouraging. He gets through the scrum well to affect plays. He's got a nose for the ball.



    His PFF grade is coverage wasn't great - in the 40s, but it's not Patrick Queen level horrendous, and I tend to take it easier on him because the whole defense is falling apart. But, again... he's showing flashes of the instinct and closing speed necessary to be a cornerstone linebacker in this league, and he's showing them more frequently as the year goes on and he racks up snaps.



    Here's a better breakdown of his best play in coverage v. LA.

    Not saying he's a complete player yet, but he deserves more playing time and is not playing like a bust.


    You hit on something that was/is true. I typically don't watch other teams and tbh, have only seen Ravens highlights and stats (both of which are impressive on the surface). With that said, I think it's unfair for me to make such strong arguments for Queen.

    What I can say for sure is that Brooks looked great to me last night...even with the DPI. I paid particular attention to him and he was around the ball...a lot. There were quite a few plays where his # won't show up on a stat sheet but, his impact was felt.

    Fans have to be cognizant to the point where you can't just pick out a facet of the game (such as stats).

    As for the Queen comparison, I don't really know. There will always be that "what-if".

    Ultimately, both teams are likely happy with their pick!
    Elemas
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