Real culprit of our offense?

Our offense struggled, Pete's meddling? OL? Russ' injury? Geno's limitation? But our offense has a first ballot QB, two top caliber WRs, a TE hand picked by our new OC, and an OL that's no worse than '20. WR corp wise, DK certainly less productive. running game? what running game?

I am of the opinion that Shane our OC was a bad hire, this young man has coached in HC, college and NFL but he was never the OC or HC at any level, not even high school, ie he was never entrusted to call plays. He also never hold down a job for 2 years until the Rams. At Rams, he was passed over on OC, got responsibility (QB coach) taken from him. Do we even know if he designed, game planned or called any plays in LA? Ummm,

It was published that the season will start with mostly plays from Hawks playbook but he will incorporate his own plays game by game. Our offense regress game by game.

Pete ought to be fired for making poor hires, KNJ wasn't good, Shane is looking even worst.

I still recommend keeping an open mind and not jumping to conclusions when there is no benefit yet to doing so. If the offensive line play doesn't pick up, or if the run game creativity doesn't increase with Carson and Eskridge coming back then that's the first thing that I think we should look at. We haven't really seen much of the zone stretch running game that we were expecting coming into the season.

It has been a rough start for Waldron for sure. First time OC and first time play caller, working with a first time run game coordinator. Injuries at QB1, RB1, WR3, OC/LG/RT/RT2. With getting the injured players back and with more time in the offense we should expect to see improvement across the board in the second half of the season. If we don't then that will be the time to talk about alternatives.

Hard to crucify Waldron when we really have no idea how much he's even being allowed to playcall with Pete the meddler in the mix.

IMO the culprit right now with the offense is the O-line. Geno, Russell, pre injury Russell..............all have had a terrible time trying to run the offense without the pocket collapsing. This includes the run blocking.

Even Brown who is usually our most dependable lineman is getting beat routinely. So they're all bad, and it's creating havok with the pocket, playcalling and just the general efficiency of the offense.

It is Pete. It is the way he has allowed all these guys to "Be themselves" They walk all over him.
Pete is the coach, He isn't supposed to be your buddy. The game has passed him by.

I would like to blame players but they are or should I say AREN'T coached.

Time to say goodbye to Pete ball. It was fun for a few minutes.

You have a front office that didn't want to focus on the O-line.

You have an O-line that is often injured.

You have RBs who are often injured.

You have an off-script type of QB who can't seem to find rhythm when he doesn't have an effective running game to provide balance.

These have been ongoing issues over many seasons now.

Many factors, and not just one.

Sgt. Largent":17dwqkro said:

Hard to crucify Waldron when we really have no idea how much he's even being allowed to playcall with Pete the meddler in the mix.

IMO the culprit right now with the offense is the O-line. Geno, Russell, pre injury Russell..............all have had a terrible time trying to run the offense without the pocket collapsing. This includes the run blocking.

Even Brown who is usually our most dependable lineman is getting beat routinely. So they're all bad, and it's creating havok with the pocket, playcalling and just the general efficiency of the offense.

Click to expand...

Hiring an OC who was never entrusted with responsibility to design, game plan and call plays was risky at best and reckless at worse. Not sure if it was Pete's idea or John's, Russell Wilson said he had no confidence in coaching shortly after the hiring, so far he is right.

We basically have the same OL as last year, but our offense is worse.

hoxrox":16iqs8pc said:

You have a front office that didn't want to focus on the O-line.

You have an O-line that is often injured.

You have RBs who are often injured.

You have an off-script type of QB who can't seem to find rhythm when he doesn't have an effective running game to provide balance.

These have been ongoing issues over many seasons now.

Many factors, and not just one.

Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you say except the Qb as we have seen him many times get into a rhythm without a run game. I do however wonder if it's PC and OC that need the run game to get into a game calling rhythm.

toffee":34m36bpa said:

Sgt. Largent":34m36bpa said:

Hard to crucify Waldron when we really have no idea how much he's even being allowed to playcall with Pete the meddler in the mix.

IMO the culprit right now with the offense is the O-line. Geno, Russell, pre injury Russell..............all have had a terrible time trying to run the offense without the pocket collapsing. This includes the run blocking.

Even Brown who is usually our most dependable lineman is getting beat routinely. So they're all bad, and it's creating havok with the pocket, playcalling and just the general efficiency of the offense.

Click to expand...

Hiring an OC who was never entrusted with responsibility to design, game plan and call plays was risky at best and reckless at worse. Not sure if it was Pete's idea or John's, Russell Wilson said he had no confidence in coaching shortly after the hiring, so far he is right.

We basically have the same OL as last year, but our offense is worse.

Click to expand...

Well we saw an improved offense against the Colts, then it regressed until Russell was injured.

So difficult to assess with such a limited sample size, and again not knowing how much influence and power Waldron even has with scheme and playcalling.

It's a mess man, it's all a mess. Pete, injuries, O-line........but that's the recipe for how you get to be 3-6. It's everything.

That's the word I have been using in conversations w/people. Mess, this team is a mess.

Poor offensive line is the first issue. Duane Brown is falling off of a cliff, this season he has now given up over 7 sacks. He's getting beat regularly now. When the blind side isn't locked down it becomes really tough for the QB to function. Our center position is also a clear weak spot, Pocic and Fuller are predictably performing below par. Still mad we didn't take Creed Humphries, instead we got a WR with an extensive injury history. Lewis, our stud RG is not doing so hot at the LG position. Gabe Jackson has been hot and cold and Shell has been the same story, though I think Shell has been the most consistent of all our lineman. It's worth noting that Jackson and Lewis are both playing out of position.

Offensive play calling is a huge issue. We don't really challenge defenses horizontally, which is the NFL norm. We're lacking in quick timing routes. Part of me thinks that this is Russell Wilson's fault, his tendency to ignore checkdowns and short routes in favor of hucking it down the field is a huge issue. We're running into some of the same problems we had at the end of the season. Our play calling is also extremely vanilla, doesn't look anything like the McVey style of offense. If anything it still looks like the exact same stuff Schottenheimer and Bevell ran here. The fact that we threw as much as we did as much as we did with an injured QB is also inexcusable on Waldron, Wilson's and Pete's part.

Russell Wilson deserves some culpability here for stalled drives and TOP issues. He is playing with a lack of discipline. I noticed if he gets rattled, he'll revert into the heroball, gunslinger/moonball mode. Under Geno Smith our third down conversion rate and TOP was better -- though that doesn't make Geno better and it is worth mentioning that Gno played worse teams. That being said, I think Wilson needs to get back to the basics here. We need to transition to a quick hitting offense with the way our offensive line is playing in pass blocking.

Our offense has the pieces, good TE's, WR's, decent QB -- but the pieces just ain't adding up.

SoulfishHawk":1i886e8n said:

That's the word I have been using in conversations w/people. Mess, this team is a mess.

Click to expand...

A more specific definition would be Dysfunctional.

Absolutely. Zero discipline or control from Pete. Yes, it's on Pete.

SoulfishHawk":3c7qn8vs said:

Absolutely. Zero discipline or control from Pete. Yes, it's on Pete.

Click to expand...

^
This from a fan that used to think that Pete was god and Russ was jesus and the refs are devils .

Its not Waldrons fault. Three OC's now and the offense looks the same. Wonder why?

Pete built a team to play Pete Ball. That is the kind of football he likes to play.

Anyone shocked that we are literally built so we struggle to play anything else? Even though PeteBall does not work?

ALL of the fault falls on Pete. All of it.

He built this. Now we are stuck with it.

Buck stops at Pete and front office. It's been stated already but there has been nothing done to fix the legitimate problems with the team. The team waits to the last minute, literally the start of the season the last few years, to try and fix a problem they have. Trading for Adams, trading for Clowney when they failed to address that in that off-season and later not signing and going into camp again without addressing a poor pass rush, failing to fix the CB position coming into this season, not using your cap to get any solid O-Line help but instead buy cheap on cast off players.

There is such a thing as believing in your own hype.

TwistedHusky":217v2wlb said:

Pete built a team to play Pete Ball. That is the kind of football he likes to play.

Anyone shocked that we are literally built so we struggle to play anything else? Even though PeteBall does not work?

ALL of the fault falls on Pete. All of it.

He built this. Now we are stuck with it.

Click to expand...

If it's his fault it's not because of PeteBall. We haven't legit run Pete Ball in years. If it's on him it's for not forcing better play from the QB position. All the Pete Ball talk even after a game where we run 11 times to 40 throws in basically a tie game going into the third is ridiculous. But wait, weren't there players on past teams that were frustrated that Pete was soft on Russ? Oh yeah that was dismissed along with romred rumblings that players were only upset with Russ out of envy and because they didn't think he was Black enough...
Couldn't have been that there was actually truth to the perception of coddling?

And if he couldn't force Russel to improve, then its for him relenting and giving the reigns of the offense over to a QB who seems more enamored with the spotlight and highlights than winning.

Pete gave control to Waldron and Russ. Russ tells Waldron what he wants to run and is comfortable with. Waldron sends those plays in. That's how the OC QB relationship works.

I've heard a few times now that Pete never won anything without Russ. Well Russ never won anything without a run game and an all world defense. Highlights and stats, sure. Consistent, on schedule, offesnsive performance you can actually design a game plan around? Nope.

Go look at game tape. The answer is obvious. Not hate, not conjecture or opinion. The film doesn't lie.

Not hate? Yeah right. You're just one of many who blame EVERYTHING on the most successful QB in team history. He's been saving Pete's a** for years. Russ hasn't won w/out a run game? Literally just making crap up now.

toffee":oiistbaz said:

Our offense struggled----

I am of the opinion that Shane our OC was a bad hire, this young man has coached in HC, college and NFL but he was never the OC or HC at any level, not even high school, ie he was never entrusted to call plays. He also never hold down a job for 2 years until the Rams. At Rams, he was passed over on OC, got responsibility (QB coach) taken from him. Do we even know if he designed, game planned or called any plays in LA? Ummm,

It was published that the season will start with mostly plays from Hawks playbook but he will incorporate his own plays game by game. Our offense regress game by game.

Click to expand...

Thanks finally someone else is thinking what I am seeing instead of simply doing the 'Fire Pete song and dance'.


I had some hope during the first game that we'd see something new and innovative.

Quite frankly, we've seen nothing since that causes a brief that anything is going to be different.

The O sucked against GB.

Wilson has won without much of a run game. Plenty.

One year we went to a quick passing attack because of injuries, we had to. We did just fine until we got to the playoffs.

And Wilson literally has a collection of games where he came back in the 4th quarter, throwing the ball, in 2 min offenses - when everyone and their grandmother KNEW he was passing. He won many of those games.

Wilson would have been just fine without Pete. Pete was a .500 coach without Wilson.

Defending Pete is a weird ridiculous hill to die on when Pete was not even a good/great coach in college - he was a roster builder and a great motivator.

Of course, the heart of the matter is this, Wilson DOES have flaws. (Another thread has a ton of stills showing issues in his progressions and decisions)

You can win despite them. And we better figure it out because you can either win with Wilson or lose without him.

So we had better figure out how to win WITH him, because that is what he have. That will probably require another coach though.

But you have to win with Wilson. That is the horse you have. Trading him away just puts you on the carousel for another, hoping it works out. When the chances are whatever you replace him with will be worse.




There is no future where Pete wins without Wilson. Zero. None. Pete is a barely capable head coach that now is not even good at the one thing that made him win despite that.