Why we shouldn't echo national experts' opinions on our QB

[Welshers]

Maelstrom has certainly made this forum worse lately. I think most would agree on that.

nah @Maelstrom787 actually makes it better because he is someone dedicated to his beliefs who we can have entertaining discourse with! I'm very impressed with his commitment to Geno.

 

[BASF]

'Early Years' Geno

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Are you the same person that you were 7 or more years ago? Have you become a better more mature version of yourself? That is the natural progression of most people. It is not a huge leap to think that Geno has, since his play the past almost year is much better than the stats you posted.

 

[keasley45]

I keep seeing people saying how well Geno played and how refreshing it was to see him use the middle of the field and all I can think about is how that all equated to only one win which came against the worst team in the league. Thinking that guy is going to mysteriously start winning games is pretty delusional in my opinion.

It's called extrapolation.

noun
the action of estimating or concluding something by assuming that existing trends will continue or a current method will remain applicable.

You are formulating your opinion on past trends from years ago. Others are projecting what might happen based on what he's done most recently.

You claim basing what he may do on recent data is delusional because he played the Jags ( a performance that you can still easily evaluate based on his play if you watch the tape) and one that continues an upward trend in good play - ie not anomalous). You deny his best performance. AND then you also deny his most recent tendency to not turn the ball over, exploit the whole field, etc, because it's the preseason. Yet again, you COULD evaluate his ability to read the field, step up in the pocket, throw an accurate ball, etc, if you watched the film. Those things are observable regardless of the quality of the opponent, or whether the games count or dont.

Delusional, defined as:

adjective: delusional
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

So those that see the guy doing good things and him actually building on recent performance and recent data, by the definition of the word, are not delusional. It would be termed the opposite, which is logical.

It would seem that, rather, ignoring current reality in favor of idiosyncratic beliefs is delusional. I suppose you could argue that you are taking into account 'data'.... just from 7 years ago. But that's a pretty shaky leg to stand on if you're trying to avoid being thought of as diluted.

 

[keasley45]

'Early Years' Geno

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Exactly. Early years Geno is nothing like recent year Geno. Thanks for posting that. Proves pretty clearly that the way he's playing now is nothing like what he did in the past. Doesn't he have a cumulative, near 100 rating for both his games last year and the preseason? Did he ever do that before?

 

[hawkfan68]

I keep seeing people saying how well Geno played and how refreshing it was to see him use the middle of the field and all I can think about is how that all equated to only one win which came against the worst team in the league. Thinking that guy is going to mysteriously start winning games is pretty delusional in my opinion.

Exactly. He may have played well (going back through his career) but it wasn't well enough for someone who's QB1. When you can't finish drives with tds it's very difficult to win games. When he's been leading the team, the Seahawks have not scored many tds (even playing with Lockett and Metcalf). Even in the Jags game, he only threw for two tds total that game.

 

[keasley45]

'Early Years' Geno

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Recent Geno stats attached.

Ignoring it is entirely your choice. But save for the name on the back of his jersey, nothing is the same.

As a matter of fact, if anything, you could look at his games here and the last game he played prior to coming here and again see a continuation of a trend of better play. Yeah, it's one game with the Giants, but all a season is a series of single games.

So since his less than stellar stint with the Jets, his performances have been improving pretty consistently.

13 - 66.5
14 - 77.5
15 - 87.9
16 - 81.2
17 - 84.5
.....
21 - 103
22 preseason - if not for the dropped passes, he'd have ranked well above 100

When performances consistently improve year after year and game over game... well thats what you call a trend.

So assuming his performance will continue in that direction based on what he's done is entirely fact based and logical.

Ignoring that trend and calling those that acknowledge it, delusional...

Well that's just hysterical.

And actually HOPING the dude proves you right... well thats something altogether different.

 

[keasley45]

Exactly. He may have played well (going back through his career) but it wasn't well enough for someone who's QB1. When you can't finish drives with tds it's very difficult to win games. When he's been leading the team, the Seahawks have not scored many tds (even playing with Lockett and Metcalf). Even in the Jags game, he only threw for two tds total that game.

If you extrapolate his stats over a season, he'd have thrown close to 30 tds and 6 INTs.

I frankly don't give a flying Flip if that's 'qb1' worthy or not. It's better than the number of TDs Troy Aikman ever tossed in a season in his career... by 3. And Troy's completion percentage was 61.5 percent career passer.

Dude is in the Hall, and before you say 'it was a different era', the difference was that he didn't have to carry his team. Marino did, and put up stats that woukd be elite in this eraz so the 'period' arguement is squat. Marino didn't win diddly, put up Godly stats, but if you gave me a choice right now for this team between Marino and Aikman both in their primes, I'd have zero problem taking Aikman and his 'less than qb1' TD stats.

 

[keasley45]

This entire discussion is entirely stupid. Actually arguing for facts gets twisted into a defense of or 'commitment' to a player. Is this 3rd grade?

It's nothing more than pushing back on some idea that actually thinking he's doing better and might continue to, based on current performance is delusional, when it's exactly the opposite side that's in the denial / delusion.

Geno may never be a qb for us beyond this year. He may not even finish the season. BUT NONE OF THAT POSSIBILITY IS REFLECTED IN HIS MOST RECENT PLAY. So projecting that it will is just a gamble you're making that ignores recent fact. That's your choice.

Read that again, print it out and paste it on your fridge.

 

[BASF]

Exactly. He may have played well (going back through his career) but it wasn't well enough for someone who's QB1. When you can't finish drives with tds it's very difficult to win games. When he's been leading the team, the Seahawks have not scored many tds (even playing with Lockett and Metcalf). Even in the Jags game, he only threw for two tds total that game.

Isn't one of the main premises from the anti-Pete people is that he does not want high scoring and stat padding thus holding Wilson back from winning them their fantasy leagues? Why would Carroll allow Smith to run up the score against the lowly Jags when we won by more than three touchdowns?

 

[Palmegranite]

He didn't. Travis Homer picked up a Jags desparate onside kick attempt and ran it in for the final TD in garbage time.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

even I who will gladly eat crow and i am with this post will admit I had hopes for Lock to beat out Geno, as im not 100% sold on him, BUT i also care more about the team than I do 1 player. With that being said I'll admit Ilm in "lets give geno a shot and see how it plays out and what Geno do we get. Because I will say, when Geno was filling in for Russ, I was happying seeing us use the middle of the field and Geno utilizing DK seemingly better than Russell.

As for that "FA" list.. tribusky is the only dude on that who with the steelers I feel wouldve been another Solid bridge QB. The bears did him dirty just like they are and have with Fields.

Bears fan here. Eberflus and Getsy have Fields on a good track. Nagy was horrible for Fields and Trubisky.

As for Geno, his career stats are mediocre, but certainly respectable in 2021. If the Seahawks can establish a solid running game, I see no reason why Geno shouldn’t be expected to play as well in 2022 as he did in 2021, if not better with the additions of Cross, Lucas, and Walker III.

 

[GemCity]

Bears fan here. Eberflus and Getsy have Fields on a good track. Nagy was horrible for Fields and Trubisky.

As for Geno, his career stats are mediocre, but certainly respectable in 2021. If the Seahawks can establish a solid running game, I see no reason why Geno shouldn’t be expected to play as well in 2022 as he did in 2021, if not better with the additions of Cross, Lucas, and Walker III.

Hope you’re right and…good luck this season.

 

[flv2]

Bears fan here. Eberflus and Getsy have Fields on a good track. Nagy was horrible for Fields and Trubisky.

As for Geno, his career stats are mediocre, but certainly respectable in 2021. If the Seahawks can establish a solid running game, I see no reason why Geno shouldn’t be expected to play as well in 2022 as he did in 2021, if not better with the additions of Cross, Lucas, and Walker III.

The problem isn't Cross or Lucas. The problem is the 3 OL between them. Blythe doesn't hold up 1-on-1. Opponents will play to get the Seahawks into 2nd or 3rd & long then utilise 3 DL against the G-C-G positions. Smith will face quick pressure up the middle. Smith isn't a quick decision maker and he isn't a great scrambler.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I honestly don’t give 2 squirts what the pundits say.
But my eyes tell me our QB situation is piss poor.

 

[hawkfan68]

This entire discussion is entirely stupid. Actually arguing for facts gets twisted into a defense of or 'commitment' to a player. Is this 3rd grade?

It's nothing more than pushing back on some idea that actually thinking he's doing better and might continue to, based on current performance is delusional, when it's exactly the opposite side that's in the denial / delusion.

Geno may never be a qb for us beyond this year. He may not even finish the season. BUT NONE OF THAT POSSIBILITY IS REFLECTED IN HIS MOST RECENT PLAY. So projecting that it will is just a gamble you're making that ignores recent fact. That's your choice.

Read that again, print it out and paste it on your fridge.

The fact remains that the team didn't score much in the 5.5/6.5 games Geno has led the Seahawks in thus far. Thus there is a scoring problem. Could that get better, sure. I hope it does.

One of the assumptions one makes when they extrapolate is that it's a given that the subject is consistent. Geno has not shown any consistency throughout his career up to now. I hope that changes but it's quite logical to be skeptical about him as well.

 

[keasley45]

The problem isn't Cross or Lucas. The problem is the 3 OL between them. Blythe doesn't hold up 1-on-1. Opponents will play to get the Seahawks into 2nd or 3rd & long then utilise 3 DL against the G-C-G positions. Smith will face quick pressure up the middle. Smith isn't a quick decision maker and he isn't a great scrambler.

If they're using 3 DL to attack our CGC, then they've also created an opportunity for us.

But to your post, Blythe is 3 years removed from having a season where allowed only 1 sack in 18 games started. After that, I think he changed systems / teams. Hopefully getting him back with the guys who brought him the most success will pay dividends.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Are you the same person that you were 7 or more years ago? Have you become a better more mature version of yourself? That is the natural progression of most people. It is not a huge leap to think that Geno has, since his play the past almost year is much better than the stats you posted.

except that rarely happens in the NFL, once the die is cast. That's who you are. Geno just hasnt played enough to justify your statement. He's a back up QB just like Tarvaris was. Unless you have a killer D and a solid running game you aren't going to win many games. This D is going to look awful early on and then get better towards the end of the season. 7 wins would be the absolute ceiling for this year and Geno would have to average more than a TD per game. Teams are going to stack the box play tight coverage and dare him to throw deeper routes. That's when the wheels are going to come off.

 

[keasley45]

The facts remain that the team didn't score much in the 5.5/6.5 games Geno has led the Seahawks in thus far. Thus there is a scoring problem. Could that get better sure.

One of the assumptions one makes when they extrapolate is that it's a given that the subject is consistent. Geno has not shown any consistency throughout his career. I hope that changes but it's quite logical to be skeptical about him as well.

Actually he has. His passer rating has consistently gone up every year he's had a chance to play, withe the exception of one.

That's a trend and reason to project positive growth and not regression. What he does ultimately remains to be seen. But to say he hasn't shown consistency isn't true.

And in the preseason, he was THE qb most plagued by drops. Against Dallas, Homer's run in the first qtr could have been reviewed for a TD but was called back.

Against the Bears, the drop of a perfect pass at the 5 yard line stalled a drive and then a penalty killed it. Prior to that, he had another key conversion dropped.


Against the Steelers, he led a Td drive and a FG drive, despite more drops.

So it's pretty soft to pick on that stat as a reason Geno might not be great.

I meaning you're on the money down and your QB delivers a dime to keep the drive going, and the receiver drops it, you're punting. There's no mulligan because the guy you depended on to catch the ball ( who btw is no longer on the team) shat the bed.

That's not on Geno.

That's not to say we aren't going to struggle when he makes mistakes, and he will. But he has consistently gotten better over his career and can't be faulted for dropped passes and untimely penalties on 3rd down when even the leagues stat keepers say the dude woukd have had a stellar 3 games had his team not let him down. That's not .net saying that. That's the NFL.

 

[keasley45]

except that rarely happens in the NFL, once the die is cast. That's who you are. Geno just hasnt played enough to justify your statement. He's a back up QB just like Tarvaris was. Unless you have a killer D and a solid running game you aren't going to win many games. This D is going to look awful early on and then get better towards the end of the season. 7 wins would be the absolute ceiling for this year and Geno would have to average more than a TD per game. Teams are going to stack the box play tight coverage and dare him to throw deeper routes. That's when the wheels are going to come off.

Awesome

Can you give me 6 numbers? Need to play the lotto Wednesday and would like to be certain I can pick up my Lambo this weekend.

 

[JayhawkMike]

If you don’t like Geno Maelmstrom and KEasly will go after you then “oh but I don’t think he’s good either” so when he sucks they can act like they knew it all along. It’s just a littke whiny B move. They will pivot in a few weeks. So really. Just disingenuous and taking both sides of an issue after repeatedly mobbing people who disagree. It‘ll be interesting to see.