2017 PFF Oline Rankings are out

[Popeyejones]

Nothing wrong with PFF stats if you don't want to take into consideration injuries. Wilson got hurt in week one and week three with injuries that severely hampered his running and ability to escape the pocket all year long. Wilson's career rushing average coming into 2016 was 5.85 ypc last year he averaged 3.6 ypc. Russell has always hid the OL's shortcomings. The OL got exposed further with the injuries to Rawls and Prosise. Rawls injured his leg again week two got shutdown and didn't look right until the playoffs. Prosise played only six games due to injury but showed flashes. The Seahawks Scored 31 and 26 points in back to back weeks in road wins vs. NE and Phi with Prosise playing a huge role before being injured in the Eagles game. BTW the Seahawks were 7-2-1 at that point and on their way. With the additions of Joeckel, Aboushi and Pocic. Fant, Ifedi, Glow and Odhiambo all with another year under their belts plus the pickup of Lacy should help as well. While i don't think the OL will be in the top 10. It is hard to say that the OL won't improve i could see them ranking in the 17-22 range which would be a massive improvement over last year where everything that could go wrong went wrong. just my two cents!

There's definitely shortcomings to PFF, but injuries to Wilson and RBs are totally independent of lineman grades.

Like NFL teams PFF is grading individual players on an individual basis -- regardless of if Wilson gets sacked or throws an 80 yard TD the lineman's grade on the play is based on his performance on that play and is the same.

 

[HawkGA]

The thing that is missing from the importance of these rankings is whether there is a big drop off from 1 to 32. Being 32 may not really be that big of a difference.

 

[chris98251]

Well they all get participation trophy's so its all good.

 

[Hawks46]

Looking at the glass half full, this could be a very strong run blocking unit if healthy. Britt, Fant, Glowinski, and Ifedi are all in fantastic shape and look very explosive. Joeckel will take some time to round into shape, but he gives them a 5th long & tenacious run blocker. Pocic is in that same mold of long & tenacious; hopefully he is able to somewhat "redshirt" or play the swing tackle role while he gets stronger and improves his fundamentals.

Six potentially explosive run blockers:
LT Fant 6'5, 325
LG Joeckel 6'6, 315
C Britt 6'6, 315
RG Glowinski 6'4, 310
RT Ifedi 6'5, 325
ST Pocic 6'6, 309

Most of the problems with the OL last year were due to missed assignments and mental errors, not getting physically beat. They say that the biggest jump players make (non QBs) is in their second year, so I'm hoping we improve due to experience.

We have a stud OL athletically. You saw guys gettting beat, but not consistently. It was more of "oh crap, who had THAT guy?".

Another weird stat I read on an ESPN article....they were talking about Wilson's consistently bad OL's and Wilson actually got hit more behind that 2013 OL that last year.s Problem was that they couldn't run block (once again, missed assignments). With no offensive balance, we had to rely on the passing game, then you saw the weaknesses become glaring. It's been common knowledge for years in the NFL....you want to slow a pass rusher down, run right at him.

 

[jammerhawk]

This is a good thread. Never have thought too much of the PFF rankings though.

Frankly I agree with Jville and pugs that there are a few significant factors not considered by PFF in their ranking which is very subjective.

As far as the OLine is concerned the team has made a deliberate choice to go with younger less expensive players much to the continuing observed disappointment of many here. The locals are getting restless as we all want to see solid run blocking and improved pass protection for Wilson so Coach Cable needs to show us some improvement from his group or the threads will get louder and more strident in wanting to get rid of him and the philosophy the team is following. In that regard I think we will see improvement but little change in staffing direction or the discharge of Coach Cable.

Here's a question though for consideration. How much of the relative inability to run the ball in key situations was caused by weak OLine play or by injury or weak play from the RBs? Which factor was bigger?

I will agree though that the pass protection was weak, though given Wilson's injuries last season part of it was contributed to by that factor and by his predisposition to hold onto the ball when he should just rid of it, or by scheme that didn't recognize our QBs escapability limitations because of the injury.

The changes to the OLine this offseason are one the most interesting developments. Fant's improved size strength and experience should help, Britt's development as a C and experience will help, and after that there are a lot questions we will soon see the answers to in the preseason. I am hopeful that the addition of Joeckel at LG will be a positive and that Ifedi can play RT at an acceptable level or that another player can step up and take the job. I t hint the competition for RG will be intense.

 

[Jville]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm not going to hunt down the archived links ..... but both Cable and Lynch talked repeatably about the time and effort it took to trust the scheme and see those dark creases and make those epic run decisions. It took both of them working together to develop Marshawn's game. Some of us get how Cable and Lynch worked together .... others don't.

Britt and Glowinski have invested a lot of time working together. Together, they could begin to emerge as an instinctive blocking tandem ...... as an inside force. This year's competition suggests so many possibilities for growth. There are certainly other tandem possibilities.

There is more size and power at tackle this year. Restoring the effectiveness of the outside zone and getting it up to speed in a symbiotic complement to the inside zone will have an impact. That is particularly noteworthy in that the 2016 Cardinals and Rams were among the very best at shutting down the outside zone ... IMHO. Continued Improvement in blocking from the tight ends will also contribute to a stronger outside zone. Carroll has mentioned the blocking at tight end often in his press conferences for over a year now.

Things they are a changing ......... it's getting better one day at a time.

EDIT: Last year, after a great career as a running back and coach, Sherman Smith hit a wall and burned out. I have no doubt that a resurrection of high energy and positive thinking at that coaching position will have a big impact on how they run the ball and overcome obstacles. Big Positive Impact.

 

[hawk45]

They are wrong about pushing Fant out of the starting lineup, to begin with.

That does reduce their credibility, assuming Pocic doesn't take over at LT like I'm hoping.

But Fant was objectively awful. That people love his story, that the FO didn't do enough to stock the position, and that he was thrown in, don't make him better. It's just more reflective of the fan base's general distaste for expensive free agents and their appreciation for UDFA's (because of their track record here). Fant really was one of the worst tackles in the league last year, if not the most, especially when we played any team from Phoenix.

Sure, he might develop. But it's kinda telling that when it comes to Fant, everyone suddenly forgets that it's Tom Cable doing the developing.

Fant gets graded on a generous curve around here to be sure and while I would love to see a great leap from him this year the odds are stacked against it.

He's very athletic. That is a good thing.

What you typically see with red raw talent is wild inconsistency. Players with experience tend to make small incremental improvements, provided they possess sufficient talent to continue to improve and coaching is good.

Nevertheless I am rooting hard for Fant because with Cable as his coach and with a front office that lights 8 million on fire for an injured Joeckel they plan to use as GUARD, we need a miracle at that position and it might as well be Fant.

Talk about raw, how scared will we be if they roll out Ifedi and Fant at the edges. I mean athleticism to spare, but....yikes. Then again that really may be our best option because we are so helpless at developing anything outside.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

They are wrong about pushing Fant out of the starting lineup, to begin with.

That does reduce their credibility, assuming Pocic doesn't take over at LT like I'm hoping.

But Fant was objectively awful. That people love his story, that the FO didn't do enough to stock the position, and that he was thrown in, don't make him better. It's just more reflective of the fan base's general distaste for expensive free agents and their appreciation for UDFA's (because of their track record here). Fant really was one of the worst tackles in the league last year, if not the most, especially when we played any team from Phoenix.

Sure, he might develop. But it's kinda telling that when it comes to Fant, everyone suddenly forgets that it's Tom Cable doing the developing.

Fant gets graded on a generous curve around here to be sure and while I would love to see a great leap from him this year the odds are stacked against it.

He's very athletic. That is a good thing.

What you typically see with red raw talent is wild inconsistency. Players with experience tend to make small incremental improvements, provided they possess sufficient talent to continue to improve and coaching is good.

Nevertheless I am rooting hard for Fant because with Cable as his coach and with a front office that lights 8 million on fire for an injured Joeckel they plan to use as GUARD, we need a miracle at that position and it might as well be Fant.

Talk about raw, how scared will we be if they roll out Ifedi and Fant at the edges. I mean athleticism to spare, but....yikes. Then again that really may be our best option because we are so helpless at developing anything outside.

We have more talent available for the right side (Glow, Aboushi, Ifedi who isn't as bad as Fant and has tackle as his natural position) than the left side. That's why I'm hoping our coaches move Pocic over to left tackle.

 

[pugs1]

Nothing wrong with PFF stats if you don't want to take into consideration injuries. Wilson got hurt in week one and week three with injuries that severely hampered his running and ability to escape the pocket all year long. Wilson's career rushing average coming into 2016 was 5.85 ypc last year he averaged 3.6 ypc. Russell has always hid the OL's shortcomings. The OL got exposed further with the injuries to Rawls and Prosise. Rawls injured his leg again week two got shutdown and didn't look right until the playoffs. Prosise played only six games due to injury but showed flashes. The Seahawks Scored 31 and 26 points in back to back weeks in road wins vs. NE and Phi with Prosise playing a huge role before being injured in the Eagles game. BTW the Seahawks were 7-2-1 at that point and on their way. With the additions of Joeckel, Aboushi and Pocic. Fant, Ifedi, Glow and Odhiambo all with another year under their belts plus the pickup of Lacy should help as well. While i don't think the OL will be in the top 10. It is hard to say that the OL won't improve i could see them ranking in the 17-22 range which would be a massive improvement over last year where everything that could go wrong went wrong. just my two cents!

There's definitely shortcomings to PFF, but injuries to Wilson and RBs are totally independent of lineman grades.

Like NFL teams PFF is grading individual players on an individual basis -- regardless of if Wilson gets sacked or throws an 80 yard TD the lineman's grade on the play is based on his performance on that play and is the same.

I hear you. I guess my point is that if Wilson, Rawls and Prosise stay healthy IMO it would have masked some of the poor OL play.

 

[Cyrus12]

The o line has improved from really sucking to just sucking. Thankfully Russ will be in shape this year so he can run for his life again. I am still expecting at some point a catastrophic injury to our qb due to the o line. But when all your money is spent elsewhere not much that can be done about it.

 

[RussB]

I dont know what to think about this o line. I have low expectations after the past 2 seasons. We will see.

 

[massari]

-Joeckel has steadily improved his run blocking throughout his career. His 2016 run-blocking grade of 82.0 would have ranked 16th had he played enough snaps to qualify.

-Though Joeckel recorded only a 40.4 pass-blocking grade last year, he did manage to rank 17th out of 94 guards in pass-blocking efficiency (minimum 100 pass-block snaps). While the sample size was small, it does show promise in Joeckel’s development as a pass-blocker.



Here's to hoping Fant/Pocic becomes a beast, moving Joeckel to LG and Glowinski to RG. :irishdrinkers:

 

[Josea16]

I dont know what to think about this o line. I have low expectations after the past 2 seasons. We will see.

It has to better then the last two years. Seriously it seems to be loaded with the possibility of being ranked in the middle of the league. If that happens 14-2 or better is a realistic possibility if injuries don't hit heavy like the last two years.

 

[Josea16]

-Joeckel has steadily improved his run blocking throughout his career. His 2016 run-blocking grade of 82.0 would have ranked 16th had he played enough snaps to qualify.

-Though Joeckel recorded only a 40.4 pass-blocking grade last year, he did manage to rank 17th out of 94 guards in pass-blocking efficiency (minimum 100 pass-block snaps). While the sample size was small, it does show promise in Joeckel’s development as a pass-blocker.



Here's to hoping Fant/Pocic becomes a beast, moving Joeckel to LG and Glowinski to RG. :irishdrinkers:

This shows if healthy at least an average OL without the obvious 2nd year jump of Ifredi and Fant.

 

[Overseasfan]

These grades are based on last year. So yeah if everyone performs the way they did last year without any form of improvement it will look as bad as last year.

Point is that we have no way of knowing whether new additions Joeckel and Aboushi will play really well for us or conpletely tank. How will high profile pick Pocic work out? Future pro bowler or out of the league in a few years? Will Glowinski, Ifedi and Fant make the leap or have they reached their ceiling?

Too many ifs to say whether the O-line will drastically improve or keep sucking.

 

[Seymour]

-Joeckel has steadily improved his run blocking throughout his career. His 2016 run-blocking grade of 82.0 would have ranked 16th had he played enough snaps to qualify.

-Though Joeckel recorded only a 40.4 pass-blocking grade last year, he did manage to rank 17th out of 94 guards in pass-blocking efficiency (minimum 100 pass-block snaps). While the sample size was small, it does show promise in Joeckel’s development as a pass-blocker.



Here's to hoping Fant/Pocic becomes a beast, moving Joeckel to LG and Glowinski to RG. :irishdrinkers:

The average grade there is 62 which is still toward the bottom of "below average". How that can equate to a league average oline takes some serious leaps, especially since it is only half the story since pass blocking has been an even greater problem than run blocking in all Cable lead teams.

Doesn't mean we cannot get there, it just means no indication from them that we will.

 

[toffee]

We may be fine with Glowinski-Britt-Joeckel, they could be league average if stay healthy. With healthy RB corp, we may even run the ball with efficiency. An article about Joeckel as guard (https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2016/8/7/ ... he-jaguars
http://sportsradiokjr.iheart.com/onair/ ... -15636559/)

Ifedi and Fant at tackle makes one shiver. Ifedi sucked at A&M playing tackle, sucked again playing guard last year. Can Ifedi suddenly became adequate playing RT? Let's pray. Fant's all about this athleticism, but Fant also "gained" 70 lbs in the last 18 or so months. How would those 70lbs affect his form and athleticism? If those weight slows him down, he will just be a big guy with not enough skill/experience.

I am expecting opposing teaming to blitz, to blitz around the edges, and blitz a lot.

 

[Jville]

Just a friendly and independent July 4th reminder .....

The consumer aspect of Pro Football Focus is as a new age entertainment company that competes in a new age entertainment environment. It has become skilled at capturing consuming fans. That ability is at the heart of PFF's business and growth plan. Theirs is a business whose launch coincided with the emergence of big data. Conceived by Neil Hornsby in the United Kingdom, PFF is a web site (launched in 2007) that added twitter and facebook to entertain consumers who demand more in the way of eye candy and visual stimuli during the week ... without the annoying math. It targets a specific consumer audience. When it comes to rankings and opinions, PFF product, as a media conduit, is not any more or less reliable or trust worthy than any of the legacy television, radio, magazine or newspaper products.

The power of software generated eye candy, graphics and visual stimuli is stunning. It can thoroughly mesmerize and capture it's targeted audience. Reminiscent of the early, though primitive, days of computer printer outs. When so many were mesmerized with it's novel appearance and accompanying abdication to and assumption that, if it was printed by a computer ..... it must be right. ...... LOL

Enjoy the candy but remember what day this is. Celebrate Your Independence. :2thumbs:

 

[hawk45]

-Joeckel has steadily improved his run blocking throughout his career. His 2016 run-blocking grade of 82.0 would have ranked 16th had he played enough snaps to qualify.

-Though Joeckel recorded only a 40.4 pass-blocking grade last year, he did manage to rank 17th out of 94 guards in pass-blocking efficiency (minimum 100 pass-block snaps). While the sample size was small, it does show promise in Joeckel’s development as a pass-blocker.



Here's to hoping Fant/Pocic becomes a beast, moving Joeckel to LG and Glowinski to RG. :irishdrinkers:

This shows if healthy at least an average OL without the obvious 2nd year jump of Ifredi and Fant.

I dunno. It seems to me every year there is an assumption of improvement on the OL because they can't be any worse and it has steadily gone the other direction.

One might, and some did, feel that there would be obvious second year improvement for Justin Britt. And for Garry Gilliam. In both of those cases we received significant regression in our Christmas stockings the next year. What was common in those two cases was (drumroll) players switching positions. They may have regressed had they stayed put, but the point is that incremental improvement in performance is not at all guaranteed across a position switch. And even when Gilliam switched back he was awful.

In Joeckel's case not only is he playing out of position, but he has injury concerns. I do realize guard is likely to be less difficult than tackle though.

As we once again enter a year with half or more of the OL being shuffled around, and with no obvious new infusion of anchor level talent to offset this, the only player I am counting on (please, please) to maintain (not improve, just maintain would be great) is Justin Britt.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Just looked at them online and think they are just a little bit to high on our team...... :stirthepot: :rumble: