49ers are an 2018-19 threar

[Marvin49]

Going to be interesting if the 9ers go after Jimmy G as a FA, then choose Barkley with their 1st round draft choice... scary.

My wishlist...

Sammy Watkins, Jimmy Graham, and Saquon Barkley.

Reality...

I think Sammy re-ups with the Rams, I think they may not target Graham because of his age, and Barkley will likely be gone by pick 9 or 10.

 

[Popeyejones]

Agreed on Barkley, but they could get Ryan Jensen AND James Hurst for the price of Graham and still have money left over for another piece, and that would be MUCH, MUCH more scary.

Reports are they have much more than that. I read they have something like 116M available, hell you could build an entire roster for that.

66 of that 116 is carry over, meaning it's not real cap space that exists beyond next year.

That of course still leaves them at 50 million under the cap in real cap space that can be projected beyond just next year, but I'd much rather they exhibit more long-term financial prudence than just burning it to burn it.

If Marvin reads this, he actually said something on the Zone a few days back that I've been thinking of too, but it seemed too crazy to actually propose (although now that I know Marvin has been thinking the same thing it feels a little less crazy :lol: )

The idea is that the 9ers basically have a one-time shot at having this much cap room, have 66 million in cap room that just disappears after 2018, and also now have a potential QB of the future that they want to sign long-term.

Let's say JGQ is angling for 5 years at 125 million, or 25 million per year, with let's say a 50 million dollar signing bonus (which spreads over the first three years, which is standard).

Instead of doing that standard deal they give him 60 million in in GUARANTEED BASER SALARY in 2018 in exchange for him signing for five years at only 100 million total, and getting 60 million guaranteed right away rather than 50 million guaranteed over three years. (you can adjust these numbers however you want, but the basic idea still holds).

That means that the carry over cap that can only be spent in 2018 goes all to JGQ, and he has four more years on a deal for which on the cap he's only getting 10 million per year.

That means they get the full 50 million under the cap (minus the carryover) to play around with this year, and a 25 million dollar a year QB for 10 million on the cap for the next four years.

If he flames out, so what, you gave him a ton of money that was going to disappear after 2018 anyway, and if he doesn't, you get to keep roster building to the tune of an extra 15 million per year in cap space you wouldn't otherwise have.

I don't think it happens because it's too unorthodox, but it's 100% what I think they should do.

 

[Marvin49]

Agreed on Barkley, but they could get Ryan Jensen AND James Hurst for the price of Graham and still have money left over for another piece, and that would be MUCH, MUCH more scary.

Reports are they have much more than that. I read they have something like 116M available, hell you could build an entire roster for that.

66 of that 116 is carry over, meaning it's not real cap space that exists beyond next year.

That of course still leaves them at 50 million under the cap in real cap space that can be projected beyond just next year, but I'd much rather they exhibit more long-term financial prudence than just burning it to burn it.

If Marvin reads this, he actually said something on the Zone a few days back that I've been thinking of too, but it seemed too crazy to actually propose (although now that I know Marvin has been thinking the same thing it feels a little less crazy :lol: )

The idea is that the 9ers basically have a one-time shot at having this much cap room, have 66 million in cap room that just disappears after 2018, and also now have a potential QB of the future that they want to sign long-term.

Let's say JGQ is angling for 5 years at 125 million, or 25 million per year, with let's say a 50 million dollar signing bonus (which spreads over the first three years, which is standard).

Instead of doing that standard deal they give him 60 million in in GUARANTEED BASER SALARY in 2018 in exchange for him signing for five years at only 100 million total, and getting 60 million guaranteed right away rather than 50 million guaranteed over three years. (you can adjust these numbers however you want, but the basic idea still holds).

That means that the carry over cap that can only be spent in 2018 goes all to JGQ, and he has four more years on a deal for which on the cap he's only getting 10 million per year.

That means they get the full 50 million under the cap (minus the carryover) to play around with this year, and a 25 million dollar a year QB for 10 million on the cap for the next four years.

If he flames out, so what, you gave him a ton of money that was going to disappear after 2018 anyway, and if he doesn't, you get to keep roster building to the tune of an extra 15 million per year in cap space you wouldn't otherwise have.

I don't think it happens because it's too unorthodox, but it's 100% what I think they should do.

Yeah, thats the gist of what I posted on the 'zone, although I'm not sure about that money disappearing.

Any unused space this year can be rolled over to next year just as it was before...IE it isn't money they HAVE to spend now, but it is money they need to spend against the rolling 3 year salary floor. The floor would dictate that it HAS to get spent anyway so why not mega front load the Jimmy G contract to make it easy to fit in future years if he's good and easy to get out of (no signing bonus=no proration bonus vs the cap=zero dead money if he's released) if he's bad.

As much as we hate on Paraag, the dude ain't stupid. I'm sure he's already thought of this. The form that this contract takes will be interesting.

 

[Popeyejones]

Yeah, thats the gist of what I posted on the 'zone, although I'm not sure about that money disappearing.

Any unused space this year can be rolled over to next year just as it was before...IE it isn't money they HAVE to spend now, but it is money they need to spend against the rolling 3 year salary floor. The floor would dictate that it HAS to get spent anyway so why not mega front load the Jimmy G contract to make it easy to fit in future years if he's good and easy to get out of (no signing bonus=no proration bonus vs the cap=zero dead money if he's released) if he's bad.

As much as we hate on Paraag, the dude ain't stupid. I'm sure he's already thought of this. The form that this contract takes will be interesting.

Ah, okay, yeah, I've always just assumed you couldn't keep on rolling over year after year, but I don't actually know if that's true or not.

Going through their cap history they had 38 in carry over going into 2017, but spent 108 on a 167 cap (leaving 60 under the cap), and it's that 60 under the cap in 2017 that is getting projected to carry over for 2018, to give them 115 million or so in 2018 cap room (their projected 50 odd million in cap space plus the 60 odd million in projected carryover in 2018).

If they could roll over the 38 million from 2016 into 2017 and then 2018 then instead of 115 million in 2018 they could have 153 in cap space. :lol: :lol:

To be clear I *honestly* have no idea if you can rollover cap room across multiple years, but the numbers being reported are giving me the impression that you can't.

Either way though, it's the same basic idea, and absolutely agreed 100% that it's not like you and came up with this idea independently of each other (I was seriously relieved to see your post, as I thought I might be thinking a little bit crazy :lol: :lol: ) and Paraag hasn't thought of it.

My guess is the reason they wouldn't do it is that they wouldn't want to set the precedent and that it would probably piss off the rest of the league. I still think they should do it though. :lol:

 

[Fanatics]

Agreed on Barkley, but they could get Ryan Jensen AND James Hurst for the price of Graham and still have money left over for another piece, and that would be MUCH, MUCH more scary.

Reports are they have much more than that. I read they have something like 116M available, hell you could build an entire roster for that.

66 of that 116 is carry over, meaning it's not real cap space that exists beyond next year.

That of course still leaves them at 50 million under the cap in real cap space that can be projected beyond just next year, but I'd much rather they exhibit more long-term financial prudence than just burning it to burn it.

If Marvin reads this, he actually said something on the Zone a few days back that I've been thinking of too, but it seemed too crazy to actually propose (although now that I know Marvin has been thinking the same thing it feels a little less crazy :lol: )

The idea is that the 9ers basically have a one-time shot at having this much cap room, have 66 million in cap room that just disappears after 2018, and also now have a potential QB of the future that they want to sign long-term.

Let's say JGQ is angling for 5 years at 125 million, or 25 million per year, with let's say a 50 million dollar signing bonus (which spreads over the first three years, which is standard).

Instead of doing that standard deal they give him 60 million in in GUARANTEED BASER SALARY in 2018 in exchange for him signing for five years at only 100 million total, and getting 60 million guaranteed right away rather than 50 million guaranteed over three years. (you can adjust these numbers however you want, but the basic idea still holds).

That means that the carry over cap that can only be spent in 2018 goes all to JGQ, and he has four more years on a deal for which on the cap he's only getting 10 million per year.

That means they get the full 50 million under the cap (minus the carryover) to play around with this year, and a 25 million dollar a year QB for 10 million on the cap for the next four years.

If he flames out, so what, you gave him a ton of money that was going to disappear after 2018 anyway, and if he doesn't, you get to keep roster building to the tune of an extra 15 million per year in cap space you wouldn't otherwise have.

I don't think it happens because it's too unorthodox, but it's 100% what I think they should do.

Yeah, thats the gist of what I posted on the 'zone, although I'm not sure about that money disappearing.

Any unused space this year can be rolled over to next year just as it was before...IE it isn't money they HAVE to spend now, but it is money they need to spend against the rolling 3 year salary floor. The floor would dictate that it HAS to get spent anyway so why not mega front load the Jimmy G contract to make it easy to fit in future years if he's good and easy to get out of (no signing bonus=no proration bonus vs the cap=zero dead money if he's released) if he's bad.

As much as we hate on Paraag, the dude ain't stupid. I'm sure he's already thought of this. The form that this contract takes will be interesting.

The side nobody is talking about is the Yorks. Yes the money could disappear from the team but not from the family. What is the violation of the 3 year salary floor worth? They have shown before to be frugal, although they are within the spending cycle right now. Harbaugh's early years were a time to spend and the Yorks did but then after the stadium was built, the family took away the toys, hence having 66M roll-over. Yes maybe there was not anyone to spend it on but nearly all owners would at least attempt to get better.

 

[Marvin49]

Reports are they have much more than that. I read they have something like 116M available, hell you could build an entire roster for that.

66 of that 116 is carry over, meaning it's not real cap space that exists beyond next year.

That of course still leaves them at 50 million under the cap in real cap space that can be projected beyond just next year, but I'd much rather they exhibit more long-term financial prudence than just burning it to burn it.

If Marvin reads this, he actually said something on the Zone a few days back that I've been thinking of too, but it seemed too crazy to actually propose (although now that I know Marvin has been thinking the same thing it feels a little less crazy :lol: )

The idea is that the 9ers basically have a one-time shot at having this much cap room, have 66 million in cap room that just disappears after 2018, and also now have a potential QB of the future that they want to sign long-term.

Let's say JGQ is angling for 5 years at 125 million, or 25 million per year, with let's say a 50 million dollar signing bonus (which spreads over the first three years, which is standard).

Instead of doing that standard deal they give him 60 million in in GUARANTEED BASER SALARY in 2018 in exchange for him signing for five years at only 100 million total, and getting 60 million guaranteed right away rather than 50 million guaranteed over three years. (you can adjust these numbers however you want, but the basic idea still holds).

That means that the carry over cap that can only be spent in 2018 goes all to JGQ, and he has four more years on a deal for which on the cap he's only getting 10 million per year.

That means they get the full 50 million under the cap (minus the carryover) to play around with this year, and a 25 million dollar a year QB for 10 million on the cap for the next four years.

If he flames out, so what, you gave him a ton of money that was going to disappear after 2018 anyway, and if he doesn't, you get to keep roster building to the tune of an extra 15 million per year in cap space you wouldn't otherwise have.

I don't think it happens because it's too unorthodox, but it's 100% what I think they should do.

Yeah, thats the gist of what I posted on the 'zone, although I'm not sure about that money disappearing.

Any unused space this year can be rolled over to next year just as it was before...IE it isn't money they HAVE to spend now, but it is money they need to spend against the rolling 3 year salary floor. The floor would dictate that it HAS to get spent anyway so why not mega front load the Jimmy G contract to make it easy to fit in future years if he's good and easy to get out of (no signing bonus=no proration bonus vs the cap=zero dead money if he's released) if he's bad.

As much as we hate on Paraag, the dude ain't stupid. I'm sure he's already thought of this. The form that this contract takes will be interesting.

The side nobody is talking about is the Yorks. Yes the money could disappear from the team but not from the family. What is the violation of the 3 year salary floor worth? They have shown before to be frugal, although they are within the spending cycle right now. Harbaugh's early years were a time to spend and the Yorks did but then after the stadium was built, the family took away the toys, hence having 66M roll-over. Yes maybe there was not anyone to spend it on but nearly all owners would at least attempt to get better.

Thats really a red herring.

The problem isn't Jed and family being frugal. There was a time right after John York took over the team that the argument could be made, but not anymore.

Prior to Chip getting the Job at UCLA, Jed was paying THREE Head Coaches. Two of them he was paying to NOT coach the 49ers anymore. Lynch and Shanahan have twin 30 mil 6 year contracts.

The 49ers have also been very good at extending players early in their contracts and thereby getting good deals. This was the case with Staley and Bowman before he was released. Typically, if a guy reaches free agency without his contract getting extended its because they don't have any intention of extending them. That why I think Reid and Hyde are gone this offseason.

IMO, the main reason the 49ers have so much cap space (and this isn't much better mind you) is that they don't have any players they have drafted over the past several years who are worth breaking the bank to keep. In Seattle, you guys got up against the cap because you had to resign guys like Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, and Wilson...in addition to Paying Graham.

Niners don't have that issue. They don't have any players of that calibre with expiring contracts. The one big contract they DID have was Kaep and we all know what happened there.

That may change with Trent Brown, DeForest Buckner, Reuben Foster and a few others but those are a few years off.

Bottom line, the reason they have so much space is largely because they haven't drafted anyone worth spending that money on and Free Agency hasn't presented them with players worthy of that type of spend.

 

[Fanatics]

Thats really a red herring.

The problem isn't Jed and family being frugal. There was a time right after John York took over the team that the argument could be made, but not anymore.

Prior to Chip getting the Job at UCLA, Jed was paying THREE Head Coaches. Two of them he was paying to NOT coach the 49ers anymore. Lynch and Shanahan have twin 30 mil 6 year contracts.

The 49ers have also been very good at extending players early in their contracts and thereby getting good deals. This was the case with Staley and Bowman before he was released. Typically, if a guy reaches free agency without his contract getting extended its because they don't have any intention of extending them. That why I think Reid and Hyde are gone this offseason.

IMO, the main reason the 49ers have so much cap space (and this isn't much better mind you) is that they don't have any players they have drafted over the past several years who are worth breaking the bank to keep. In Seattle, you guys got up against the cap because you had to resign guys like Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, and Wilson...in addition to Paying Graham.

Niners don't have that issue. They don't have any players of that calibre with expiring contracts. The one big contract they DID have was Kaep and we all know what happened there.

That may change with Trent Brown, DeForest Buckner, Reuben Foster and a few others but those are a few years off.

Bottom line, the reason they have so much space is largely because they haven't drafted anyone worth spending that money on and Free Agency hasn't presented them with players worthy of that type of spend.

We will see this year, take Garoppolo out of the equation because we both know they will be spending on him. Will they spend on any upgrades, from my perspective the biggest hole on Defense is Pass Rusher and definitely need multiple CB's. Offense I would say OL is the biggest bang for the buck, and yes they could use a #1 WR as even with Garcon coming back, they are lacking a true #1. I have not looked at the FA's available this year but I do know:

WR - Wakins, Pryor, Gordon
CB - Butler, Trumaine Johnson, Jonathan Joseph
Edge - Ansah, Lawrence, Clayborn, William Hayes

I can see a ton of talent there that could benefit the 49ers especially with 50+ Million of Cap space but we will see if they spend or pocket.

 

[Marvin49]

Thats really a red herring.

The problem isn't Jed and family being frugal. There was a time right after John York took over the team that the argument could be made, but not anymore.

Prior to Chip getting the Job at UCLA, Jed was paying THREE Head Coaches. Two of them he was paying to NOT coach the 49ers anymore. Lynch and Shanahan have twin 30 mil 6 year contracts.

The 49ers have also been very good at extending players early in their contracts and thereby getting good deals. This was the case with Staley and Bowman before he was released. Typically, if a guy reaches free agency without his contract getting extended its because they don't have any intention of extending them. That why I think Reid and Hyde are gone this offseason.

IMO, the main reason the 49ers have so much cap space (and this isn't much better mind you) is that they don't have any players they have drafted over the past several years who are worth breaking the bank to keep. In Seattle, you guys got up against the cap because you had to resign guys like Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, and Wilson...in addition to Paying Graham.

Niners don't have that issue. They don't have any players of that calibre with expiring contracts. The one big contract they DID have was Kaep and we all know what happened there.

That may change with Trent Brown, DeForest Buckner, Reuben Foster and a few others but those are a few years off.

Bottom line, the reason they have so much space is largely because they haven't drafted anyone worth spending that money on and Free Agency hasn't presented them with players worthy of that type of spend.

We will see this year, take Garoppolo out of the equation because we both know they will be spending on him. Will they spend on any upgrades, from my perspective the biggest hole on Defense is Pass Rusher and definitely need multiple CB's. Offense I would say OL is the biggest bang for the buck, and yes they could use a #1 WR as even with Garcon coming back, they are lacking a true #1. I have not looked at the FA's available this year but I do know:

WR - Wakins, Pryor, Gordon
CB - Butler, Trumaine Johnson, Jonathan Joseph
Edge - Ansah, Lawrence, Clayborn, William Hayes

I can see a ton of talent there that could benefit the 49ers especially with 50+ Million of Cap space but we will see if they spend or pocket.

Yes, they need a #1 WR, they need interior line help, they need help at CB, and they need help at Pass Rusher (specifically, they need a LEO).

I'll say this in terms of what they spend...they won't spend just to spend. If there is a guy who they think can be an answer at those spots, they'll spend. If its just A guy who may not be a big upgrade over what they have, they won't. Shanahan said pretty much exactly that yesterday.

Watkins? Thats the guy I want but I'd expect him to resign in LA. Pryor? Meh. Gordon? Would love it but I don't see him leaving Cleveland. Butler? Go for it. Johnson? Joseph? Kinda rather they draft a guy. Ansah? Eh..maybe. Lawrence? Yes please...but he'll probably get tagged. Clayborn? Meh.

Thats kinda the problem. They have a number of positions and a ton of money, but I don't know that the guys I would like to see them spend the money on will in fact reach free agency. Breaking the bank for "meh" free agents isn't how you improve.

There will also be a number of players who get released for cap purposes so I want to see who's on that list when its all said and done.

Last year the Niners went nuts in volume, but didn't break the bank. Pierre Garcon, Kyle Juszcyk, Marquise Goodwin, Robbie Gould...all signed in day one of free agency and all contributed. May see more of that...building depth all over and a few big contracts if they are still there on day one.

 

[Popeyejones]

What is the violation of the 3 year salary floor worth?

It's 1-to-1, meaning every dollar you spend under the salary floor for the three year rolling average is a dollar that goes directly to the NFLPA to get redistributed to the players.

It's why the Jags and Raiders went so nuts in FA two off-seasons ago -- that was the last year of the last cycle and they had use-it-or-lose-it money they had to burn.

As for the Jed-is-cheap meme that some Hawks fans like to throw around, Marvin's covered this, but it's just asinine. There's plenty of legitimate stuff to criticize Jed York about, but cheapness just isn't one of them.

John York: Cheap, aloof, disinterested, but didn't meddle.

Jed York: Tempestuous, reactionary, ignorantly cocksure, but isn't cheap.

If the 9ers end up in a burn-off year like the Jags and Raiders did, it will be for the same reasons that the Jags and Raiders ended up in that situation: they had a long run of drafting poorly and simply didn't have people to re-up and pay.

(Nobody thinks Shahid Khan is cheap with his 7 billion dollars, nor does anyone think Mark Davis is cheap with the Raiders even though his networth is 500 million and he still uses a 2003 Nokia phone and drives a minivan -- The Jags and Raiders are actually #1 and #5 in top projected spending next year)

 

[Fanatics]

Marvin, good points on the spending and I agree that teams need to spend wisely. It should be an interesting off-season as the Hawks could use some of those same players although our needs are different. I would like to see the Hawks build up the offense a bit, tired of seeing RW running for his life and running the offense with skill position players that need to be upgraded...quit wasting RW's quality years.

As for the 49ers, living in the area I hear a ton about them but this might be the year that we see if Lynch is able to evaluate talent, team needs, scheme fit, ...when a team turns the corner is when a good off-season could either make or break them.

 

[Fanatics]

What is the violation of the 3 year salary floor worth?

It's 1-to-1, meaning every dollar you spend under the salary floor for the three year rolling average is a dollar that goes directly to the NFLPA to get redistributed to the players.

Wow, that is tough. Thanks for the information and I am sure it will be hard to make up the Cap deficiency the 49ers have done since the 66M is not just from one year but multiple years of building up the capital. Can they spend enough to bring the 3-year average back to the cap floor, we shall see. With this information, I do not see the 49ers/Jed allowing the money to be spent without fixing his team, so you and Marvin are right.

 

[Popeyejones]

As for the 49ers, living in the area I hear a ton about them but this might be the year that we see if Lynch is able to evaluate talent, team needs, scheme fit, ...when a team turns the corner is when a good off-season could either make or break them.

Yep, absolutely.

I think I'm atypical among 9ers fans in that I thought -- and still think -- that beyond the pretty face Lynch has been a total disaster as GM so far.

The nicest thing I can say about him is that he at least has the wherewithal to know what he doesn't know, and to let Paraag, Peters, and Mayhew do the typing for him while he passes out buttons. His star rose with the "fleecing" of the Bears in the draft, but even Lynch himself and the video from MMQB of how that went down in real time makes it impossibly clear that was all Paraag's doing.

I still have my fingers crossed that when Peters attracts GM interest they'll "promote" Lynch into a Team President roll that spans football and business operations (Lynch is perfect for that, and unlike some other teams the 9ers don't have that position in their org chart right now) and install Peters as GM.

9ers fans don't like this take because they just love not having to deal with Baalke (we're still in a greener grass phase), and because of the dramatic turn around the team took toward the end of the year. But does Lynch deserve credit for picking up the phone when Belichick called and offered JG for a second round pick? :lol: :lol: C'mon. Any pretty face could do that.

What's really going on here is that (1) Jed York didn't want to give a first-time head coach in Kyle Shanahan both coach and GM duties, (2) Jed York wanted a GM who could improve public relations after the PR disaster of the past few seasons, and (3) Kyle Shanahan wanted a GM who would defer to him and what he wanted without getting in the way or trying to exert too much influence.

To be clear, as it presently stands I think this all is working fairly well so far, but that's because John Lynch understands his role as a prop and is willing to play it.

 

[Marvin49]

As for the 49ers, living in the area I hear a ton about them but this might be the year that we see if Lynch is able to evaluate talent, team needs, scheme fit, ...when a team turns the corner is when a good off-season could either make or break them.

Yep, absolutely.

I think I'm atypical among 9ers fans in that I thought -- and still think -- that beyond the pretty face Lynch has been a total disaster as GM so far.

The nicest thing I can say about him is that he at least has the wherewithal to know what he doesn't know, and to let Paraag, Peters, and Mayhew do the typing for him while he passes out buttons. His star rose with the "fleecing" of the Bears in the draft, but even Lynch himself and the video from MMQB of how that went down in real time makes it impossibly clear that was all Paraag's doing.

I still have my fingers crossed that when Peters attracts GM interest they'll "promote" Lynch into a Team President roll that spans football and business operations (Lynch is perfect for that, and unlike some other teams the 9ers don't have that position in their org chart right now) and install Peters as GM.

9ers fans don't like this take because they just love not having to deal with Baalke (we're still in a greener grass phase), and because of the dramatic turn around the team took toward the end of the year. But does Lynch deserve credit for picking up the phone when Belichick called and offered JG for a second round pick? :lol: :lol: C'mon. Any pretty face could do that.

What's really going on here is that (1) Jed York didn't want to give a first-time head coach in Kyle Shanahan both coach and GM duties, (2) Jed York wanted a GM who could improve public relations after the PR disaster of the past few seasons, and (3) Kyle Shanahan wanted a GM who would defer to him and what he wanted without getting in the way or trying to exert too much influence.

To be clear, as it presently stands I think this all is working fairly well so far, but that's because John Lynch understands his role as a prop and is willing to play it.

WOW.

TOTALLY disagree on Lynch.

I do agree with Garoppolo effectively falling in his lap and I do agree that Paraag engineered the Bears trade, but I don't think anything he's done would qualify as a disaster.

He is the head of the Personnel dept and if first year results are to be believed they just had one of their best drafts in recent memory.

Their Free Agent class came in and performed better than expected, Marquise Goodwin in particular.

I can see holding off on giving Lynch all the credit, but I don't see how anyone could label it a disaster.

 

[Popeyejones]

WOW.

TOTALLY disagree on Lynch.

I do agree with Garoppolo effectively falling in his lap and I do agree that Paraag engineered the Bears trade, but I don't think anything he's done would qualify as a disaster.

He is the head of the Personnel dept and if first year results are to be believed they just had one of their best drafts in recent memory.

Their Free Agent class came in and performed better than expected, Marquise Goodwin in particular.

I can see holding off on giving Lynch all the credit, but I don't see how anyone could label it a disaster.

:lol:

Yeah.

TBF and in defense of your position in our differences on this one, I'm definitely the most negative on Lynch of any 9ers fan I know.

And I agree that their draft was DEFINITELY their best one in recent memory, and I'd argue that (so far) it was probably the second best draft in the NFL last year (behind the Saints).

That's all Peters and Mayhew though. They only thing we really know about Lynch's role in the draft is:

(1) With Shanahan he signed off on Paraag's trade to the Bears.

(2) Before the draft Shanahan was more into Witherspoon than King and Lynch was more into King than Witherspoon but Lynch deferred (Shanahan was majorly right so far on that one).

(3) In the third round Lynch wildly overdrafted a player Shanahan didn't even want that high because he didn't want to wait out the night to take him the next morning.

(4) In the fourth round Lynch picked a guy who until that morning hadn't even been on his draft board (due to commitment concerns) because he had a five minute conversation with him, and that guy went on to show up out of shape and to be IRd because of an imaginary injury.

I know I'm leaving myself WIDE OPEN to critiques of nitpicking about the handling of the 3rd and 4th rounds in what was overall a very good draft, but this is process stuff, and a GM who blithely breaks from process stuff like this seriously gives me heart palpitations for the long-term. That he's survived this stuff and has been reputationally unscathed for it worries me even more.

The rules are pretty simple:

(1) Don't take a guy earlier than your coach even wants him because you want an easier time going to sleep that night. It takes the months of preparation you've done and throws them out the window in deference to impulsiveness. It's just bad practice

(2) If you've spent months constructing a draft board don't impulsively draft people who aren't even on your draft board. It throws all that preparation out the window out of impulsiveness. It throws your scouts and draft guys under the bus in deference to a position coach and head coach that happened to speak to you most recently. It's just bad practice.

To be fair, he has no idea what he's doing and obviously can improve, but this type of stuff is just about as big of a red flag from a GM as I can imagine (along with some of the FA stuff he pulled, but this post is already too long :lol: )

 

[Marvin49]

WOW.

TOTALLY disagree on Lynch.

I do agree with Garoppolo effectively falling in his lap and I do agree that Paraag engineered the Bears trade, but I don't think anything he's done would qualify as a disaster.

He is the head of the Personnel dept and if first year results are to be believed they just had one of their best drafts in recent memory.

Their Free Agent class came in and performed better than expected, Marquise Goodwin in particular.

I can see holding off on giving Lynch all the credit, but I don't see how anyone could label it a disaster.

:lol:

Yeah.

TBF and in defense of your position in our differences on this one, I'm definitely the most negative on Lynch of any 9ers fan I know.

And I agree that their draft was DEFINITELY their best one in recent memory, and I'd argue that (so far) it was probably the second best draft in the NFL last year (behind the Saints).

That's all Peters and Mayhew though. They only thing we really know about Lynch's role in the draft is:

(1) With Shanahan he signed off on Paraag's trade to the Bears.

(2) Before the draft Shanahan was more into Witherspoon than King and Lynch was more into King than Witherspoon but Lynch deferred (Shanahan was majorly right so far on that one).

(3) In the third round Lynch wildly overdrafted a player Shanahan didn't even want that high because he didn't want to wait out the night to take him the next morning.

(4) In the fourth round Lynch picked a guy who until that morning hadn't even been on his draft board (due to commitment concerns) because he had a five minute conversation with him, and that guy went on to show up out of shape and to be IRd because of an imaginary injury.

I know I'm leaving myself WIDE OPEN to critiques of nitpicking about the handling of the 3rd and 4th rounds in what was overall a very good draft, but this is process stuff, and a GM who blithely breaks from process stuff like this seriously gives me heart palpitations for the long-term. That he's survived this stuff and has been reputationally unscathed for it worries me even more.

The rules are pretty simple:

(1) Don't take a guy earlier than your coach even wants him because you want an easier time going to sleep that night. It takes the months of preparation you've done and throws them out the window in deference to impulsiveness. It's just bad practice

(2) If you've spent months constructing a draft board don't impulsively draft people who aren't even on your draft board. It throws all that preparation out the window out of impulsiveness. It throws your scouts and draft guys under the bus in deference to a position coach and head coach that happened to speak to you most recently. It's just bad practice.

To be fair, he has no idea what he's doing and obviously can improve, but this type of stuff is just about as big of a red flag from a GM as I can imagine (along with some of the FA stuff he pulled, but this post is already too long :lol: )

on Beathard, That was a guy Shanahan wanted. I don't think he made the decision to move up in a vacuum.

on Joe Williams, he knew who Joe was all along and the only reason he wasn't on the draft board was because he quit football during the season. Shanahan pounded the table for him, Lynch called the kid and they made the move.

Time will tell if it was a good decision. It wasn't an imaginary injury BTW. Williams was quoted just recently that he had a procedure on it and he was just getting his lateral quickness back. He'd gotten the injury in college.

Bottom line to me though is that he is a very inexperienced GM and he WILL improve. He was smart enough though that he knows what he doesn't know and hired good people around him.

As with all things, time will tell, but I've seen nothing that would classify him as a disaster.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^

Re: Beathard, I'm just going off what Lynch himself has said.

Re: Williams, yeah, we're telling the exact same story here. We just feel differently about the implications of that story.

As for Williams' injury, I don't think Williams is making up a surgery, but I also don't think either of us believe for a second that he would have been served up the "Paraag Special" if Matt Breida hadn't beaten him out (i.e. going from having no problems at all in the 4th pre-season game against the Chargers to having an unreported magical mystery injury in that game that supposedly knocked him out for a full season :lol: ).

He had a year off from football and took that time to get something from college cleaned up. I buy that, sure. That he *had* to be IRd for that or *would have* been IRd for that if Breida hadn't beaten him out and they weren't worried about him being snagged off the PS? Nah, I don't but that for a second.