49ers still worthy rivals?

[RolandDeschain]

Nope.

They suck. Maybe Seahawks hardly even prepare for them because they are so bad.

Admitting it is the first step to recovery. Of course there is no cure for being a Niner fan, but keeping it from spreading can save lives.

Ok, Loaf this is just CLASSIC with posts like this who needs The Regulators. :th2thumbs: :stirthepot:

Isn't he one of the regulators?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Yeah he is but he wasn't really regulating there in my opinion.

 

[HansGruber]

The 49ers and the Seahawks are bound together, because they play a version of football that is to some extent fighting the tides of where those who run football want it to go.

Both teams emphasize a tough defense, it is about strength and power, a strong running game and the chess match.

Maybe Harbaugh is a jerk, maybe he isn't. Some of the sideline stuff is funny but whether he is a jerk or not is immaterial. One of the best FB coaches, Parcells, was clearly a jerk. To his own family even. But he was a hell of a football coach.

What Harbaugh did at Stanford was incredible. I still think he is a phenomenal coach. And I think the reason 49ers topics keep coming up is because we rightfully fear them as the most dangerous obstacle to home field in the playoffs that we face.

Either way, I respect the team. Certainly more than teams like the Broncos, where Peyton Manning pees and moans about things he needs changed whenever he fails (or gets others to pee and moan for change instead). Somehow a lot of really bad fans latched onto the 49ers, people that act like jerks and assault other fans for having the audacity of cheering for another team (likely because they live or lived there).

But the team itself has some damned good players.

Yes, they are worthy rivals but they are also thin in certain spots and frustrated because of it.

But more importantly, the Seahawks and the 49ers are the last stand of success against the trend that wants to turn football into more of an athletic ballet, about the passing game, diving and receiving. Diminishing the value of defense or physical game and instead emphasizing offense.

What Harbaugh did at Stanford was incredible?

He never even won a Pac-10 title. Never placed better than second. His WL record was barely over .500 and the program had been more successful with him gone. Many Stanford alums, including a few of my colleagues, still bitch about him costing the school a number of recruits. He was hated by the administration and continues to be credited for work done by others.

But who cares, really? Let me know when he actually wins something and I'll give him his props.

 

[Popeyejones]

Bowman is far more important IMHO. If he comes back and isn't the same guy the Niners will hurt from it, but 70 percent of Bowman is still probably better than most starting LBers. My favorite non Seahawk football player without a doubt.

I gotta disagree on this one.

The 9ers just don't have a pass rush without Aldon. Fans had high hopes for Lemonier, but he's been really bad and I doubt if he'll ever be useful. Brooks isn't as effective because pass coverage doesn't have to shade over to Aldon's side. In the past Brooks has looked better than he is because he was playing with Aldon, Bowman, and Willis. When you're playing with a unit in which everyone else is EASILY top five at their position in the NFL you're going to look a lot better than you are.

I also really love Bowman, but in the past few years he has become overrated and Willis has become underrated simply because of scheme. When everyone agreed Willis was the best ILB in the NFL a few years ago he was playing the Mike role with Takeo Spikes playing the Jack. Your Mike backer is ALWAYS going to be getting more tackles and be more disruptive in the visually obvious ways.

As Bowman (and Willis) both developed they swapped Bowman into the Mike and moved Willis into the Jack because Willis was (and is) the more complete player, and while Bowman was racking up tackles Willis was -- due to scheme -- out in coverage and taking on lead blockers.

Basically, as soon as Willis went to the Jack and Bowman took over the Mike (the position Willis previously inhabited) all of sudden eveyone started thinking that Bowman might even be better than Willis (his stats were better, because ILB stats are biased towards tackles and your Mike SHOULD have more tackles).

We also see the evidence of this through these first three games. With Bowman out Willis is back to the Mike role and Wilhoite is playing the Jack, and all of a sudden Willis looks like a man on fire again. He's leading the team in tackles again and it isn't even close. He's scrapping down the line and using his speed to blow up plays on the edges (just like Bowman was doing) because he's back in that role. It's not that Willis was amazing (while he happened to be playing the Mike), then his stats dipped (while he happened to be playing the Jack), and now he's somehow amazing again (while he's happening to be playing the Mike), it's purely just scheme.

Basically, with Willis in the Jack and Bowman in the Mike Willis gets the bigger salary (becaus he does more and is a better player) and Bowman gets the stats and the glory.

The other piece here is that Wilhoite isn't bad. The 9ers run d has been really good the last two weeks. The pass rush is awful because Lemonier is awful and becaus Brooks can't glory hog when he's not surrounded by talent (he's just not good enough to do that).

So, I certainly root for Bowman more than I do Aldon, but getting Aldon back is MUUUUUUCH more important, IMO.

 

[SnoCoHawk]

Even if they have a dismal season and aren't a "rival" for the playoffs, I'll still hate them for their whiny, conspiracy-theorist fans, their goofy Bieber-wannabe quarterback and their drama queen coach. Does that count?

 

[Popeyejones]

Even if they have a dismal season and aren't a "rival" for the playoffs, I'll still hate them for their whiny, conspiracy-theorist fans, their goofy Bieber-wannabe quarterback and their drama queen coach. Does that count?

If the 9ers had finished 4-12 every year for the past three years you wouldn't even remotely care about any of these things.

If the Seahawks had done the same there wouldn't be a 9ers fan on the planet ranting about how "smug" "pete the cheat" is, the "piped in noise" at the CLink, PEDs, Sherman being a "jerk," etc., etc. etc.

Basically, swap the 49ers and Rams records since 2011 and you'd be making the same claims about the Rams IMO, rather than not really caring about them either way. The same goes for 9ers fans and the Seahawks.

Put another way, EVERY single fanbase in the NFL has somehow convinced itself that its rivals' team and fanbase is somehow atypically imoral, or obnoxious, or inferior. Go to any team forum and it's the same thing. The only reason ANY fanbase in the NFL takes the time to dislike the Hawks or their fans is because the team is good. That's it. Full story, full stop. Same with the 9ers.

 

[tom sawyer]

STILL worthy rivals?

I never considered them worthy. Close, but no cigar!

 

[SnoCoHawk]

Put another way, EVERY single fanbase in the NFL has somehow convinced itself that its rivals' team and fanbase is somehow atypically imoral, or obnoxious, or inferior. Go to any team forum and it's the same thing. The only reason ANY fanbase in the NFL takes the time to dislike the Hawks or their fans is because the team is good. That's it. Full story, full stop. Same with the 9ers.

Yep. So why fight it or get in a snit about it? Have a sense of humor, enjoy the rivalry, and accept that it's all part of the fun.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Even if they have a dismal season and aren't a "rival" for the playoffs, I'll still hate them for their whiny, conspiracy-theorist fans, their goofy Bieber-wannabe quarterback and their drama queen coach. Does that count?

Yep.

I have actually hated them since first being exposed to the "Faithful". Whether they are 2-14 or 13-3 it is the same for me. I am pretty sure it was the whole entitlement thing kicking in after they got pounded 4 straight. They kept talking even though they clearly sucked and got pounded again, losing 2 more. No matter, Tim Rattay was in the house and he was going to abuse those inferior Seachickens. After getting their asses kicked? No.. they didn't suck, It was the same stuff that the DenialZoners say today. The refs, every one else holds on every play and there is definite cheating. Crowd noise pumped in... yeah, the same crap.

I know that there are very cool Niner fans out there, including the ones that are long time members here, but no group takes on the image of its exceptions.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

Even if they have a dismal season and aren't a "rival" for the playoffs, I'll still hate them for their whiny, conspiracy-theorist fans, their goofy Bieber-wannabe quarterback and their drama queen coach. Does that count?

Yep.

I have actually hated them since first being exposed to the "Faithful". Whether they are 2-14 or 13-3 it is the same for me. I am pretty sure it was the whole entitlement thing kicking in after they got pounded 4 straight. They kept talking even though they clearly sucked and got pounded again, losing 2 more. No matter, Tim Rattay was in the house and he was going to abuse those inferior Seachickens. After getting their asses kicked? No.. they didn't suck, It was the same stuff that the DenialZoners say today. The refs, every one else holds on every play and there is definite cheating. Crowd noise pumped in... yeah, the same crap.

I know that there are very cool Niner fans out there, including the ones that are long time members here, but no group takes on the image of its exceptions.

It's just a matter of perspective, you can find the same on just about any rival forum. You're a Hawk fan, we're 49er fans, we will never see eye to eye but that's ok. And I wish Marv would would realize that. We both still have jackass fans whether it's on our forums or on the streets, they're there and always will be. Hopefully we as rivals and the opposition find ways to see the positive aspects of our rivalry.

Personally I am starting to try and look at things in a different light. After hearing that Les had passed, it reminded me of how short life is, the fact that he was a Hawk fan didn't even cross my mind, I felt the loss of another human being. Personally I don't want to waste my time in arguments over who's team did what, or why it's better, etc., etc. We as fans have zero control over what our teams , players or staff do anyway. You root for yours and I'll root for mine. The end of the season will be the deciding factor.

I'm all for enjoying the rivalry without all the other BS.

 

[drdiags]

One thing of note to me about the Cardinals loss was the silly personal foul Boldin got. It was a 6 pt game at the time he helped make a goal to go situation into a 3rd and 35 that eventually became a blocked FG. I don't see this huge demise. They aren't as stacked right now, with a young secondary needing to tighten up the screws but it is a long season.

As far as a worthy rival, as long as they are in the same division you don't have much choice but to regard them as one of the immediate threats to the division crown. All 3 of the teams in the div are rivals. Worthy? Well, I just want my guys to remain worthy, the rest of the teams can fend for themselves.

I remember Rams and Seahawks fans crowing about how the division would be a fight between the two teams forever, since the 9ers and Cardinals were stinking it up in the mid-2000s. Then the Cardinals and 9ers flipped the division. Now it is the Seahawks, 9ers and Cardinals with a potentially dangerous Rams team looking to inflict some heartbreak.

I would do like the pros do and take note of things every 4 games. Who knows which team will be looking dominant and which ones will be looking like they are on life-support.

I like this intense back and forth, since the Seahawks have never had a strong two-way venomous rival. I think things go over the top and can get down right stalker-like by some of our folks, but it keeps them happy so what the heck?

Hopefully the NFL isn't planning on any re-alignments any time soon. We could lose the Rams if the NFL truly wanted to use geographical location to setup divisions.

 

[-The Glove-]

Yes...as much as I hate them, they're a dangerous team as long as Kaep n Harbaugh are there.

 

[irocdave]

Niner fans on this board have to realize the arrogance you and your cohorts have displayed on this site and the denialzone you protect over the last decade. When you understand the ignorance of your opinions expressed to a fully understanding fan base that has been ignored, driven in to the ground by one of your own, California expatriate, experienced EVERY form of belligerence by the NFL because of the NFL's own policies of flat out ignoring the un chosen franchises...you might begin to understand WHY Hawk fans can straight up tell you WHY your team wont go anywhere this year and fully understand the implications of this. The niners aren't going to the playoffs this year. They are no longer on the "media hype" list. Even our local passive niners fans don't get it. When it's pointed out on this site or the denialzone the end result is the same. What I find hilarious is the rigorous scrutiny of the posters that bring this up. Trust me Niner fans, long time Hawk fans UNDERTSAND HOW THIS WORKS. and have to much experience with teams with SOME great players and mostly not great players. YOU DONT. Enjoy yet another decade of being ignored, which will lead to NFL media dictating niner silence with coverage. Maybe it wont be for 35 years...again.

I say no chance of them being a rival for several years. Kap is not a viable competitor to Wilson, the niners under douchebag have proven they cant keep key players out of prison (think Dennis Erickson era Hawks) and have an old starting lineup on D that plays almost every snap during the season. The D is the only thing that has kept the niners in the upper echelon of the NFL. Yes they have some young players but what exactly have they proven in the NFL? Nothing, and that is a partial explanation as to why the niners are where they are. Niner fans sure as hell cant count Kap. Kap has not shown improvement over the last couple of years. Toss in the smoke surrounding the biggest douche coach in the league not getting his pay raise / contract extension....yea, they will not be a viable rival to the Hawks in the coming years unless Walsh is resurrected.

 

[Scottemojo]

Wow, this ended up more a treatise on the fans than a football discussion.

Bethea and Reid have not been good. Ward has gotten abused. The pass rush has been non existent. They can't stop speed receivers.

Bowman and Alldumb have anticipated returns, Smith should impact right away, but I honestly can't see Bowman being a consistent producer this year. It took time for Clemons to get his wheels and power under him, an ACL injury in late January is just damn tough to fully recover from in less than a year. Yeah, he will get back on the field, but expecting him to be in MVP form is unfair. My guess is he would have a snap count at first.

The offense I just can't figure. The line has been very inconsistent in run blocking and pretty dismal pass blocking. Just like last year, they have tried to make Kaepernick the centerpiece, maybe to justify all the receiving threats they have, but just like last year the offense looks a bit lost without Vernon Davis. Hyde is awesome, but isn't getting used that much.

I expect an attitude shift just like last year. Harbaugh's personality demands he return to his base when things go wonkey. This week, IMO, the Niners will return to ground and pound. THe Eagles D is the right kind of D to moosh, and keeping the Eagles O off the grass has to be a priority. San Fran is only converting 54% of their red zone chances into TDs at the moment, that needs to change vs the Eagles (who are only converting 41% of their chances, but are making up for it with scoring plays of 20 plus yards). Doubling up that difficulty is containing Sproles. Willis can't control both Sproles and Ertz. Do they have the lateral speed to get to Sproles on the edges?

Have the Niners lost their relevance in the NFC west? Hardly. They lost in Glendale, which they are not really used to, but Hawk fans know what a hard place to play that has been for us. Until the Hawks win games in Santa Clara, the relevance is still there, Harbaugh or not. The third place team in the NFC west, no matter who it is, will not be an irrelevant team.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

There seems to almost as many Niner threads as Hawks threads :shock:

And your posts add nothing to either set, so not I am not sure why you are complaining. Did you get run outta the blue.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

There seems to almost as many Niner threads as Hawks threads :shock:

And your posts add nothing to either set, so not I am not sure why you are complaining. Did you get run outta the blue.

Burn!

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

There seems to almost as many Niner threads as Hawks threads :shock:

And your posts add nothing to either set, so not I am not sure why you are complaining. Did you get run outta the blue.

No he's there and will never be run off in either place because he's family there and not meanspirited here so there's no reason to pick on him. We happen to allow more opposing fans and viewpoints in then they do, so it is what it is.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Wow, this ended up more a treatise on the fans than a football discussion.

Bethea and Reid have not been good. Ward has gotten abused. The pass rush has been non existent. They can't stop speed receivers.

Bowman and Alldumb have anticipated returns, Smith should impact right away, but I honestly can't see Bowman being a consistent producer this year. It took time for Clemons to get his wheels and power under him, an ACL injury in late January is just damn tough to fully recover from in less than a year. Yeah, he will get back on the field, but expecting him to be in MVP form is unfair. My guess is he would have a snap count at first.

The offense I just can't figure. The line has been very inconsistent in run blocking and pretty dismal pass blocking. Just like last year, they have tried to make Kaepernick the centerpiece, maybe to justify all the receiving threats they have, but just like last year the offense looks a bit lost without Vernon Davis. Hyde is awesome, but isn't getting used that much.

I expect an attitude shift just like last year. Harbaugh's personality demands he return to his base when things go wonkey. This week, IMO, the Niners will return to ground and pound. THe Eagles D is the right kind of D to moosh, and keeping the Eagles O off the grass has to be a priority. San Fran is only converting 54% of their red zone chances into TDs at the moment, that needs to change vs the Eagles (who are only converting 41% of their chances, but are making up for it with scoring plays of 20 plus yards). Doubling up that difficulty is containing Sproles. Willis can't control both Sproles and Ertz. Do they have the lateral speed to get to Sproles on the edges?

Have the Niners lost their relevance in the NFC west? Hardly. They lost in Glendale, which they are not really used to, but Hawk fans know what a hard place to play that has been for us. Until the Hawks win games in Santa Clara, the relevance is still there, Harbaugh or not. The third place team in the NFC west, no matter who it is, will not be an irrelevant team.

Nailed it as usual sir.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I'm all for enjoying the rivalry without all the other BS.

You're right, it is just a matter of perspective. Just sharing my own. For as much that I respected/enjoyed the 14 year run of the Niners, I want to say that the respect dropoff actually started creeping in as TO became a figure. Probably the same way Sherman rubs others the wrong way. TO was a good player, but he tarnished the Niners, who did a little talking but mostly on the field.

It wasn't that the Niners didn't already have their share of weirdos like Romanowski, Burt and Haley, it was that those guys were overshadowed by Montana, Young, Rice, Rathman, Lott, Craig and John Taylor (whom I genuinely feel should be in the HOF)

When those guys left, there was TO.. Not what I saw as Niner material regardless of the production. I met Jesse Sapolu on the sidelines back in 2007 and even he didn't dig TO

Still don't know what Sapolu was doing on the sidelines that day. Lol.. it was like he was just there, sitting on the bench hanging out for the hell of it while wearing a Niners jacket. He was actually entertaining for the few words he said. Nolan was at his father's funeral and Singletary was HC that day. Sapolu just sort of grunted out "NEXT COACH... SOON" as he pointed at Sing. I mean the team had warmed up and EVERYONE was back in the locker room, but Sapolu was just sitting there on the end of the bench, all by himself just chillin'.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

There seems to almost as many Niner threads as Hawks threads :shock:

And your posts add nothing to either set, so not I am not sure why you are complaining. Did you get run outta the blue.

No he's there and will never be run off in either place because he's family there and not meanspirited here so there's no reason to pick on him. We happen to allow more opposing fans and viewpoints in then they do, so it is what it is.

Mean spirited people are needed to keep the utopian hippies in check.