Attributes that make #1WRs for the Hawks ?

[Sac]

He's not calling you asinine, he's calling your post asinine. That is permitted. Also, he can post where he likes just as you are allowed to want what you want. This is a public forum, sir.

 

[hawksurething]

He's not calling you asinine, he's calling your post asinine. That is permitted. Also, he can post where he likes just as you are allowed to want what you want. This is a public forum, sir.

I said he called my view asinine. Not me. My post is my view. I never get attacked like this on other hawks sites, since they all saw our weakness in the Superbowl . but here a few people are actually attacking a person who ONLY wants your team to get a elite player that will also help our star RBs game become easier & open up Baldwin in the slot where he can excel and get pro bowl money as a slot WR.

Yet my post is getting attacked ?

 

[Sac]

You are welcome here friend. But please do not confuse someone disagreeing with the premise of your post as an attack. If you want to see attacks, visit the smack shack. It's more fun in there anyway.

 

[hawksurething]

You are welcome here friend. But please do not confuse someone disagreeing with the premise of your post as an attack. If you want to see attacks, visit the smack shack. It's more fun in there anyway.

Well cool...I'm just going to keep defend inn my post and call their post asinine, stupid,and everything else I have been called.

This is ridiculous. I have never heard of someone not wanting a elite player at any position in football.

 

[Sac]

You are welcome here friend. But please do not confuse someone disagreeing with the premise of your post as an attack. If you want to see attacks, visit the smack shack. It's more fun in there anyway.

Well cool...I'm just going to keep defend inn my post and call their post asinine, stupid,and everything else I have been called.

This is ridiculous. I have never heard of someone not wanting a elite player at any position in football.

LOL. You're really not understanding what the majority of us have been saying if you think we don't want a premier receiver.

 

[Vetamur]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.. And with no allowance that any other views are valid to the point that you tell people they aren't fans if they don't follow you.
And when you come to a board of pretty knowledgable fans on the whole and instead of discuss presume to lecture, yes, you're then going to make yourself look bad. Credibility is earned not demanded.
If the play call that ended our Super Bowl hopes had been, say, a naked bootleg and Wilson had scored, would you still be beating this drum? You're now essentially admitting you want the Seahawks to throw more.. To be just like nearly every other team. We went to two Super Bowls back to back. Even with the play call we had if Butler doesn't sell out on that one play we still win. And yet this insistence we re do the entire philosophy of the team. To keep the defense as is, it needs to constantly reload with cheap , quality depth. That comes through the draft. Your other idea is to sign Marshall.. But again, there's a salary cap. Who don't you want to sign to pay that salary?
Couldn't I just as easily say we lost the Super Bowl because we ran out of CBs and so we need to get one of those? If the defense doesn't give up 14 in the 4th we would have won. Do I get to question your fan-hood if you disagree? Want to put your tangible fanhood stats up against mine, as you're fond of doing?
Id suggest if you want to be treated like a normal member of the forum perhaps you start by acting like one instead of trying to be our teacher.

 

[chris98251]

Spreading the ball around keeps a defense honest, teams with number 1's many times become one trick ponies, wasting picks for depth to hope the guy isn't a bust or to just move up to get a guy like Koren Robinson hurts the team, you let the draft come to you. They made their best run with a more balanced attack and won a Super Bowl, since they lost the threat of a running game where have they been.

If a number 1 comes to us whether draft or F.A. and we keep our chemistry and balance I am all for it. You need to understand Petes philosophy of what he wants. Your posts sound more like a Madden offensive dream and just try to outscore people. Lets sign Dez, Brandon and Vince, then nobody will be able to shut us down. I mean what the hey, at least we won't need rub routes and Pick plays right?

Besides who needs a defense anyway, we just throw bombs every play and when the DB's play off we hand it to Lynch, Russell should be able to run for 4 seconds so they can get down field since we won't be able to keep our best Linemen either.

 

[hawksurething]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.. And with no allowance that any other views are valid to the point that you tell people they aren't fans if they don't follow you.
And when you come to a board of pretty knowledgable fans on the whole and instead of discuss presume to lecture, yes, you're then going to make yourself look bad. Credibility is earned not demanded.
If the play call that ended our Super Bowl hopes had been, say, a naked bootleg and Wilson had scored, would you still be beating this drum? You're now essentially admitting you want the Seahawks to throw more.. To be just like nearly every other team. We went to two Super Bowls back to back. Even with the play call we had if Butler doesn't sell out on that one play we still win. And yet this insistence we re do the entire philosophy of the team. To keep the defense as is, it needs to constantly reload with cheap , quality depth. That comes through the draft. Your other idea is to sign Marshall.. But again, there's a salary cap. Who don't you want to sign to pay that salary?
Couldn't I just as easily say we lost the Super Bowl because we ran out of CBs and so we need to get one of those? If the defense doesn't give up 14 in the 4th we would have won. Do I get to question your fan-hood if you disagree? Want to put your tangible fanhood stats up against mine, as you're fond of doing?
Id suggest if you want to be treated like a normal member of the forum perhaps you start by acting like one instead of trying to be our teacher.

And that's s my point. All I said was we need to fix our weaknesses. I used attributes of the position in Question. But some people were saying no,and that we should keep the same weakness.

Also yes you can question my fan- hood if I EVER say no to getting a elite player! ( unless he has off field drama,although Lynch has had drama,for elite talent I still make exceptions if they change).

I would not disagree with getting a slot CB.I pointed that out as a weakness too.

Yes I want use to throw more to keep Lynch fresh and defenses honest. I said this since Largent left & when we got Percy I was disappointed as he is not a WR,he is a move weapon who is hard to use and offers nothing in the rezone. Injury prone. Largent was destroying double coverage, yet he never got a elite RB to help him get a ring. Shame.

It ws the same back then people saying hawks dont need a good RB & they need is Largent...While Irvin got emmit & 3 rings.Makes me mad Largent could not get help.


Also yes please put your stats or data up against mine when debating a subject, instead of just say stuff without backing.

I said I came here to teach the 12th man...also said I want to be taught. I like growing since I don't know it all. But what little do know ,I always stay vigilant.

I don't want to be normal,I want to be extraordinary. I have been taught much be some people on here...as well I see that more people are saying a #1WR demands double teams,when before nobody on this site mentioned it. Let's all grow together,don't blow off good info with the phrase " we don't need". Learn from our mistakes with Largent.

 

[Scottemojo]

The OP is kind of a sensitive little thing.

 

[Spleenhawk2.0]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.. And with no allowance that any other views are valid to the point that you tell people they aren't fans if they don't follow you.
And when you come to a board of pretty knowledgable fans on the whole and instead of discuss presume to lecture, yes, you're then going to make yourself look bad. Credibility is earned not demanded.
If the play call that ended our Super Bowl hopes had been, say, a naked bootleg and Wilson had scored, would you still be beating this drum? You're now essentially admitting you want the Seahawks to throw more.. To be just like nearly every other team. We went to two Super Bowls back to back. Even with the play call we had if Butler doesn't sell out on that one play we still win. And yet this insistence we re do the entire philosophy of the team. To keep the defense as is, it needs to constantly reload with cheap , quality depth. That comes through the draft. Your other idea is to sign Marshall.. But again, there's a salary cap. Who don't you want to sign to pay that salary?
Couldn't I just as easily say we lost the Super Bowl because we ran out of CBs and so we need to get one of those? If the defense doesn't give up 14 in the 4th we would have won. Do I get to question your fan-hood if you disagree? Want to put your tangible fanhood stats up against mine, as you're fond of doing?
Id suggest if you want to be treated like a normal member of the forum perhaps you start by acting like one instead of trying to be our teacher.

And that's s my point. All I said was we need to fix our weaknesses. I used attributes of the position in Question. But some people were saying no,and that we should keep the same weakness.

Also yes you can question my fan- hood if I EVER say no to getting a elite player! ( unless he has off field drama,although Lynch has had drama,for elite talent I still make exceptions if they change).

I would not disagree with getting a slot CB.I pointed that out as a weakness too.

Yes I want use to throw more to keep Lynch fresh and defenses honest. I said this since Largent left & when we got Percy I was disappointed as he is not a WR,he is a move weapon who is hard to use and offers nothing in the rezone. Injury prone. Largent was destroying double coverage, yet he never got a elite RB to help him get a ring. Shame.

It ws the same back then people saying hawks dont need a good RB & they need is Largent...While Irvin got emmit & 3 rings.Makes me mad Largent could not get help.


Also yes please put your stats or data up against mine when debating a subject, instead of just say stuff without backing.

I said I came here to teach the 12th man...also said I want to be taught. I like growing since I don't know it all. But what little do know ,I always stay vigilant.

I don't want to be normal,I want to be extraordinary. I have been taught much be some people on here...as well I see that more people are saying a #1WR demands double teams,when before nobody on this site mentioned it. Let's all grow together,don't blow off good info with the phrase " we don't need". Learn from our mistakes with Largent.

Again - and I have asked this question, along with others, and the question has been ignored.

Who has EVER suggested that we do not need an upgrade at WR? Show me who said this? Show me anytime someone on this board has said that we do not want/need an elite WR?? I can show you a number of instances where members have disagreed with the "Data" you have used to come up with your conclusion.....

This is getting weird

 

[Vetamur]

There's no arguing with an argument that results from misfiring neurons.

Pretty sure I just earned my first ever .net rebuke but pretty sure I can back it up.

 

[McGruff]

hawksurething . . . let me try to outline what is being said so that you can perhaps understand.

Everyone here would like a top flight #1 WR for Russ to throw to and to take the pressure off of Beast Mode. Just like everyone wants all pros at every position. I want Demarius Thomas and Nmadakung Suh and Darrell Revis and Justin Houston and Mike Iupati and . . . I want them all. And I want to keep Maxwell and extend Wilson and Marshawn and Wagner and Sweezy and . . . I want them all. And I want Marshawn to get 400 carries and Russell to throw 600 times and have TE and Wr who both top 100 catches and I want us to score 40 points a game while giving up zero. I think that would be loads of fun.

But that is not reality. That is Madden in rookie mode. And maybe some websites are dumb enough to indulge such fantasies.

This is not one. These fans are smart enough to recognize the reality of this team and this league.

The reality of this team is that we do not throw the ball 600 times a season. We throw the ball 400 times a season. We throw the ball less than any team in the NFL. That's the way our coach wants it. And when we do throw it, we spread it around. Sometimes Kearse will lead the team, sometimes Baldwin, sometimes Miller or Willson. Sometimes it might even be our 5th string WR from Canada who never caught a pass in his NFL career. It all depends on who gets open at the right time and place for Wilson to see them and get the ball to them. There is only one beast to feed on this team, and he doesn't play WR (although some games he might lead the team in receptions!)

The reality is that we play in a league that has a salary cap. You can't just over spend at every position. You have to pick and choose where to invest your money.

When you put those two realities together you come to two conclusions that are pretty unavoidable and nullify whatever point you are making . . .

1. It doesn't make sense at this point for this team to spend big money at a position it doesn't utilize fully. We could sign Sydney Rice and Percy Harvin when we had all these probowl players on rookie contracts. It was a luxury we could indulge. Now that those probowl players are getting probowl contracts, we have to prioritize our cap space differently. A top flight WR is a luxury in our offense.

2. It doesn't make sense for top flight free agent WR's to come here, no matter what we pay them. They won't get the opportunities. They won't make the Pro Bowl. Why would they want to sign here to block 20 times a game and catch 4 passes when they could go to Detroit or Atlanta or New England or Denver or Indy or Philly or New Orleans and catch twice as many passes (and likely make more money doing it!).

I think you can throw free agency out the window when it comes to addressing our WR need (at least in a big way). But the draft is an option that makes more sense for two reasons that address the above realities . . .

1. Drafted players, even late first rounders, are cheap and under club control for 3-4 years. Last year's #31 pick was Cb Bradley Roby, and he signed a 4 year, 7 million dollar deal. less than 2 million per year for a player would should be a starting caliber player. That is a steal if you can hit on it.

2. Drafted players don't have a choice where they go. They don't get to choose the best situation for them. They have to make the best out of whatever situation they are in.

At the end of the day, this discussion is less about 'what fans want" and more about what will the team do to address this situation. Feel free to dream, but it won't do any good, and it doesn't make for interesting debate, and continuing to pursue makes you sound more like a petulant child than a WR genius. Saying "I want I want I want" over and over again isn't factual. Its spoiled.

 

[Vetamur]

McGruff is so much a better person than me it's embarrassing.

 

[StoneCold]

I would not trade Baldwin for a dozen Dez's. Heck most of them would just sit on the bench and that would be a waste of cap space. Sheesh.

SC

 

[hawksurething]

Mcgruff.

Its a myth about WRs not getting 1200 yards and 12 TDs with teams who run the ball like Dez & Murray, Irvin & Emmit. So that excuse is invalid.

We will have cap space to sign Marshall,Vjackson if we let kearse & miller go. They won't command huge contracts due to having down year. Plus they love to block !

I want to draft a #1WR too. To play the #2 Spot while he learns from Marshall or Jackson.

Lastly I did not say I want all those players which is unrealistic madden dreams...I just asked for bargain WRs whom I know are studs based on what they have done in the NFL.

It makes perfect sense to get a #1WR to lessen the load on Lynch & his bad back. Don't you know his back ?

we are making Wilson the highest paid QB so passing more should be on the plate to stop all these close games( we should be blowing teams out with our defense).

opens up Baldwin in the slot,

Improves our bad redzone %,

Improves our 3rd % which keeps the defense fresh(sick of all the 3 & outs passing),

Takes the safety out of the box.

Lessens the chance of our invested QB getting hurt like RG3 having to run around trying to wait for a WR to get open. 3 step drop WR is the key,just throw it up and let the stud WR come down with it. No hurt QB

 

[Tical21]

We need to run more, not less.

 

[Mick063]

There are some myths out there in NFL land. #1 receiver is one of them.

It all boils down to if a receiver is really, really good............or not. The mythical #1 receiver comes in all shapes, sizes, athleticism, and skills. There is nothing common amongst them except for one thing: They are extremely good at what they do.

It is more accurate to simply say that Seattle doesn't have a great receiver.

 

[hawksurething]

There are some myths out there in NFL land. #1 receiver is one of them.

It all boils down to if a receiver is really, really good............or not. The mythical #1 receiver comes in all shapes, sizes, athleticism, and skills. There is nothing common amongst them except for one thing: They are extremely good at what they do.

It is more accurate to simply say that Seattle doesn't have a great receiver.

True.

 

[Vetamur]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.. And with no allowance that any other views are valid to the point that you tell people they aren't fans if they don't follow you.
And when you come to a board of pretty knowledgable fans on the whole and instead of discuss presume to lecture, yes, you're then going to make yourself look bad. Credibility is earned not demanded.
If the play call that ended our Super Bowl hopes had been, say, a naked bootleg and Wilson had scored, would you still be beating this drum? You're now essentially admitting you want the Seahawks to throw more.. To be just like nearly every other team. We went to two Super Bowls back to back. Even with the play call we had if Butler doesn't sell out on that one play we still win. And yet this insistence we re do the entire philosophy of the team. To keep the defense as is, it needs to constantly reload with cheap , quality depth. That comes through the draft. Your other idea is to sign Marshall.. But again, there's a salary cap. Who don't you want to sign to pay that salary?
Couldn't I just as easily say we lost the Super Bowl because we ran out of CBs and so we need to get one of those? If the defense doesn't give up 14 in the 4th we would have won. Do I get to question your fan-hood if you disagree? Want to put your tangible fanhood stats up against mine, as you're fond of doing?
Id suggest if you want to be treated like a normal member of the forum perhaps you start by acting like one instead of trying to be our teacher.

And that's s my point. All I said was we need to fix our weaknesses. I used attributes of the position in Question. But some people were saying no,and that we should keep the same weakness.

Also yes you can question my fan- hood if I EVER say no to getting a elite player! ( unless he has off field drama,although Lynch has had drama,for elite talent I still make exceptions if they change).

I would not disagree with getting a slot CB.I pointed that out as a weakness too.

Yes I want use to throw more to keep Lynch fresh and defenses honest. I said this since Largent left & when we got Percy I was disappointed as he is not a WR,he is a move weapon who is hard to use and offers nothing in the rezone. Injury prone. Largent was destroying double coverage, yet he never got a elite RB to help him get a ring. Shame.

It ws the same back then people saying hawks dont need a good RB & they need is Largent...While Irvin got emmit & 3 rings.Makes me mad Largent could not get help.


Also yes please put your stats or data up against mine when debating a subject, instead of just say stuff without backing.

I said I came here to teach the 12th man...also said I want to be taught. I like growing since I don't know it all. But what little do know ,I always stay vigilant.

I don't want to be normal,I want to be extraordinary. I have been taught much be some people on here...as well I see that more people are saying a #1WR demands double teams,when before nobody on this site mentioned it. Let's all grow together,don't blow off good info with the phrase " we don't need". Learn from our mistakes with Largent.

Your posts are getting worse. Who said, EVER, that we only needed Largent? And, you might recall, during Largent did play with some great backs -- Curt Warner, John L. Williams, and Id even add Sherman Smith who put up decent numbers on an expansion team before free agency was around.

In any case, your whole premise is about changing the Seahawks fundamental approach to the game, an approach that has gotten the Seahawks to two straight Super Bowls, and has built a foundation of a long term powerhouse. So, I will say "no thank you". I will even say flat out I dont want a collection of elite players. I want a strong team. I want a run first team that spreads the ball around to decent to good receivers and maybe a great one if we happen to be able to get one..........

Under the guise of "fixing our weakness" what you really want to do is change the entire team dynamic. Change the offensive philosophy which also changes how the defense has to approach the game.

In the era of the salary cap you CANT be strong everywhere. You have to choose what you want to be really good at and then commit your limited resources to that. The genius of Seattles system is that it goes so far against the grain of what other teams do. As I mentioned previously, teams are gearing their defenses to stop the pass, even structuring their rosters that way. So when we play them, they have trouble containing us.

And finally, if Marshall and Jackson are so elite, they wont be available.. If they are available, it means they arent seen as elite............. And if you do pay them 9 million instead of getting 4 million dollar WRs, then youve taken 5 million dollars worth of talent away from an area we need it. and they wont want to sign in seattle unless we change our offense, like you want us to. Which isnt going to happen.. Carroll has a proven record with how he is doing things

No one likes to say it, but the actual value of Bevell is that he has created a good, strong (not elite) offense on a tiny budget. UDFA, cheap WRs. A 5th rounder and 2 guys off the street at TE. A street pick up playing FB and subbing on the D line. Its exactly because we pay so little there that we can afford our dominant defense.. If an elite WR falls to us in the draft in a mid round, cool. But spending big resoures on a WR doesnt fit the concept. A good receiver? Sure. Id take another Sydney Rice, his presence did a lot more than the numbers suggest.

And finally, as I mentioned.. of the past 8 teams to play in the Super Bowl, only ONE had an elite WR. And they lost. The other 7, including all 4 winners didnt have an elite WR. Chasing and throwing money after elite receivers that actually make your offense more predictable , and is what teams are gearing towards facing is foolish... Its proven that teams that build that way..chasing a handful of elite players (Chicago, Washington) dont win. That is simply fact. Teams investing in balance (3 good WRs vs. 1 elite and 2 so so WRs) win super bowls. Teams tying money up in elite WRs (Denver, Detroit) win highlight reels.

 

[netskier]

I agree. And the arena football receiver supports this plan, and iirc he is six four, not a big body but a tall body. Give Browner two tall guys to defend at once.