Brian Schottenheimer - future Seahawks Head Coach

THE TABS

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hawknation2018":2x9iv8gq said:
John Deflippo has not had a good year with the Vikings. Their HC has criticized him for continually abandoning the run game, much like Bevell used to do.

I don’t agree with your criticisms of Schottenheimer’s play calling. Not when we are scoring more points per game than we did from 2012-17, with seemingly less talent.

I’m aware of Zimmer’s complaints, but there are two considerations; One, the offensive line has not played well, and losing Tony Sparano under unfortunate circumstances has hurt them. They’ve abandoned the run at times, but most of the time it’s been justified. They were running the ball last week against NE, and yes, didn’t stick with it.

Two, I think he’s done a great job maximizing Kirk Cousins. Let’s face it, he is nowhere near worth the contract he got. He’s not elite, and never will be. He’s this decade’s Matt Hasselbeck. He can put up numbers with proper support, but he can’t put a team on his shoulders and carry them to a title.

As for Schottenheimer, it’s working well enough to work this year, but I don’t believe that the offensive direction is sustainable next year and beyond without some corrections, particularly route concepts in short and intermediate areas. Also, with all the “give up” plays we run in obvious passing situations, not only is it inefficient, we put our defense in bad situations, and they’ve been getting gashed due to stale and predictable schemes themselves, but that’s another topic for another thread.

His scheme is flawed, and I don’t think he’s capable of evolving it down the road, nor do I think PC will want him to evolve it. With the trend of offensive innovation going on in the league right now, it’s a major concern.
 

justafan

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John Deflippo has to be the most overated coach in the league. Teams chase the Super Bowl magic and hire hoping to catch some of it. He really hasnt done that much thru his career. Probably the worst hire of the offseason.
 

knownone

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The idea that Brian Schottenheimer is not creative or innovative has got to go. We have one of the most diverse and creative packages of running plays in the NFL. He is leading the run first revolution and if you notice the other great coaches around the league are starting to catch on to its effectiveness.

Consider this, 4 of the 5 teams leading the league in rushing attempts per game happen to have coaches who've won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts only one does not have a winning record. Depending on which metric you choose to use to measure passing between 4 to 6 of the top passing teams have losing records.

It's also worth noting both the Chiefs and Rams run a fairly simplistic offensive scheme, they aren't running some futuristic offense with complicated route trees. Both teams rely heavily on confusing the defense with simplicity and talent rather than out-executing the defense.

What that means is that the Seahawks and Brian Schottenheimer are running the more sustainable offense long term. The more games a team like the Chiefs and Rams play the more their simplicity is discovered. Teams will then incorporate what they can't stop into their offense. Defenses will take away more and more of those big plays as more and more defensive minds have a chance to try to figure them out and build off the concepts of other defenses.

In a sense, the Chiefs and Rams are in a race against time. You can even graph this conceptually. The more teams unravel from their offense the closer the rest of league comes to intersecting that creative curve. Once they intersect we reach an equilibrium where the teams with schemes and players that can beat you man to man tend to take the lead. Sometimes that's the team that was ahead of the creative curve, but usually, that team was forced to be creative in an attempt to cover up other deficiencies in their line up.
 

THE TABS

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knownone":45gsvbcm said:
The idea that Brian Schottenheimer is not creative or innovative has got to go. We have one of the most diverse and creative packages of running plays in the NFL. He is leading the run first revolution and if you notice the other great coaches around the league are starting to catch on to its effectiveness.

Consider this, 4 of the 5 teams leading the league in rushing attempts per game happen to have coaches who've won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts only one does not have a winning record. Depending on which metric you choose to use to measure passing between 4 to 6 of the top passing teams have losing records.

It's also worth noting both the Chiefs and Rams run a fairly simplistic offensive scheme, they aren't running some futuristic offense with complicated route trees. Both teams rely heavily on confusing the defense with simplicity and talent rather than out-executing the defense.

What that means is that the Seahawks and Brian Schottenheimer are running the more sustainable offense long term. The more games a team like the Chiefs and Rams play the more their simplicity is discovered. Teams will then incorporate what they can't stop into their offense. Defenses will take away more and more of those big plays as more and more defensive minds have a chance to try to figure them out and build off the concepts of other defenses.

In a sense, the Chiefs and Rams are in a race against time. You can even graph this conceptually. The more teams unravel from their offense the closer the rest of league comes to intersecting that creative curve. Once they intersect we reach an equilibrium where the teams with schemes and players that can beat you man to man tend to take the lead. Sometimes that's the team that was ahead of the creative curve, but usually, that team was forced to be creative in an attempt to cover up other deficiencies in their line up.

Quick question; if the Rams scheme is so simplistic, why have they scored 111 points in the last 3 meetings against us?

If their offense is that simple, shouldn’t it be easy to stop?

Todd Gurley is one of the best RB’s in the league, but I don’t consider Jared Goff an elite QB, or those receivers to be elite. They’re pretty good, but not great, by any means.
 

Sox-n-Hawks

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THE TABS":156aazmf said:
knownone":156aazmf said:
The idea that Brian Schottenheimer is not creative or innovative has got to go. We have one of the most diverse and creative packages of running plays in the NFL. He is leading the run first revolution and if you notice the other great coaches around the league are starting to catch on to its effectiveness.

Consider this, 4 of the 5 teams leading the league in rushing attempts per game happen to have coaches who've won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts only one does not have a winning record. Depending on which metric you choose to use to measure passing between 4 to 6 of the top passing teams have losing records.

It's also worth noting both the Chiefs and Rams run a fairly simplistic offensive scheme, they aren't running some futuristic offense with complicated route trees. Both teams rely heavily on confusing the defense with simplicity and talent rather than out-executing the defense.

What that means is that the Seahawks and Brian Schottenheimer are running the more sustainable offense long term. The more games a team like the Chiefs and Rams play the more their simplicity is discovered. Teams will then incorporate what they can't stop into their offense. Defenses will take away more and more of those big plays as more and more defensive minds have a chance to try to figure them out and build off the concepts of other defenses.

In a sense, the Chiefs and Rams are in a race against time. You can even graph this conceptually. The more teams unravel from their offense the closer the rest of league comes to intersecting that creative curve. Once they intersect we reach an equilibrium where the teams with schemes and players that can beat you man to man tend to take the lead. Sometimes that's the team that was ahead of the creative curve, but usually, that team was forced to be creative in an attempt to cover up other deficiencies in their line up.

Quick question; if the Rams scheme is so simplistic, why have they scored 111 points in the last 3 meetings against us?

If their offense is that simple, shouldn’t it be easy to stop?

Todd Gurley is one of the best RB’s in the league, but I don’t consider Jared Goff an elite QB, or those receivers to be elite. They’re pretty good, but not great, by any means.

I think more than anything it’s a combination of the looks McVay gives defenses and how he’s taught Goff to read them. I saw some film of the pre-snap movements that showed a bit of what he’s doing. Once there’s a bit more coaches film, the defenses will adapt.
 

THE TABS

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Sox-n-Hawks":3k7m3k8v said:
THE TABS":3k7m3k8v said:
knownone":3k7m3k8v said:
The idea that Brian Schottenheimer is not creative or innovative has got to go. We have one of the most diverse and creative packages of running plays in the NFL. He is leading the run first revolution and if you notice the other great coaches around the league are starting to catch on to its effectiveness.

Consider this, 4 of the 5 teams leading the league in rushing attempts per game happen to have coaches who've won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts only one does not have a winning record. Depending on which metric you choose to use to measure passing between 4 to 6 of the top passing teams have losing records.

It's also worth noting both the Chiefs and Rams run a fairly simplistic offensive scheme, they aren't running some futuristic offense with complicated route trees. Both teams rely heavily on confusing the defense with simplicity and talent rather than out-executing the defense.

What that means is that the Seahawks and Brian Schottenheimer are running the more sustainable offense long term. The more games a team like the Chiefs and Rams play the more their simplicity is discovered. Teams will then incorporate what they can't stop into their offense. Defenses will take away more and more of those big plays as more and more defensive minds have a chance to try to figure them out and build off the concepts of other defenses.

In a sense, the Chiefs and Rams are in a race against time. You can even graph this conceptually. The more teams unravel from their offense the closer the rest of league comes to intersecting that creative curve. Once they intersect we reach an equilibrium where the teams with schemes and players that can beat you man to man tend to take the lead. Sometimes that's the team that was ahead of the creative curve, but usually, that team was forced to be creative in an attempt to cover up other deficiencies in their line up.

Quick question; if the Rams scheme is so simplistic, why have they scored 111 points in the last 3 meetings against us?

If their offense is that simple, shouldn’t it be easy to stop?

Todd Gurley is one of the best RB’s in the league, but I don’t consider Jared Goff an elite QB, or those receivers to be elite. They’re pretty good, but not great, by any means.

I think more than anything it’s a combination of the looks McVay gives defenses and how he’s taught Goff to read them. I saw some film of the pre-snap movements that showed a bit of what he’s doing. Once there’s a bit more coaches film, the defenses will adapt.

29 games worth of game films, counting their wild card game last year. I’d say that’s enough film.
 

Sox-n-Hawks

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THE TABS":9klgc77n said:
Sox-n-Hawks":9klgc77n said:
THE TABS":9klgc77n said:
knownone":9klgc77n said:
The idea that Brian Schottenheimer is not creative or innovative has got to go. We have one of the most diverse and creative packages of running plays in the NFL. He is leading the run first revolution and if you notice the other great coaches around the league are starting to catch on to its effectiveness.

Consider this, 4 of the 5 teams leading the league in rushing attempts per game happen to have coaches who've won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts only one does not have a winning record. Depending on which metric you choose to use to measure passing between 4 to 6 of the top passing teams have losing records.

It's also worth noting both the Chiefs and Rams run a fairly simplistic offensive scheme, they aren't running some futuristic offense with complicated route trees. Both teams rely heavily on confusing the defense with simplicity and talent rather than out-executing the defense.

What that means is that the Seahawks and Brian Schottenheimer are running the more sustainable offense long term. The more games a team like the Chiefs and Rams play the more their simplicity is discovered. Teams will then incorporate what they can't stop into their offense. Defenses will take away more and more of those big plays as more and more defensive minds have a chance to try to figure them out and build off the concepts of other defenses.

In a sense, the Chiefs and Rams are in a race against time. You can even graph this conceptually. The more teams unravel from their offense the closer the rest of league comes to intersecting that creative curve. Once they intersect we reach an equilibrium where the teams with schemes and players that can beat you man to man tend to take the lead. Sometimes that's the team that was ahead of the creative curve, but usually, that team was forced to be creative in an attempt to cover up other deficiencies in their line up.

Quick question; if the Rams scheme is so simplistic, why have they scored 111 points in the last 3 meetings against us?

If their offense is that simple, shouldn’t it be easy to stop?

Todd Gurley is one of the best RB’s in the league, but I don’t consider Jared Goff an elite QB, or those receivers to be elite. They’re pretty good, but not great, by any means.

I think more than anything it’s a combination of the looks McVay gives defenses and how he’s taught Goff to read them. I saw some film of the pre-snap movements that showed a bit of what he’s doing. Once there’s a bit more coaches film, the defenses will adapt.

29 games worth of game films, counting their wild card game last year. I’d say that’s enough film.

I agree. You’ll see some answers in the post season.
 

knownone

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THE TABS":3jdbdmp4 said:
Quick question; if the Rams scheme is so simplistic, why have they scored 111 points in the last 3 meetings against us?

If their offense is that simple, shouldn’t it be easy to stop?

Todd Gurley is one of the best RB’s in the league, but I don’t consider Jared Goff an elite QB, or those receivers to be elite. They’re pretty good, but not great, by any means.
I don't have a quick answer.

So to answer your question... Why have the Rams scored 111 against the Seahawks? Because the Seahawks much like the rest of the league has yet to figure out the most effective way to stop the Rams offense. Also, you have to consider that the Seahawks defense is the least talented it's been in years and you sort of cherry-picked games. For instance, half of our defense was either injured or on IR when the Rams put up 42 on us. So if you factor that game out, and only look at games where the Seahawks defense was healthy(ish), they've held the Rams to 25 points per game, with their most talented unit holding the Rams to 10 points.

I think you are misinterpreting the term simplistic here. The Rams run a very simplistic offense in a sense that it's easier for players to learn and not overly complicated schematically. They are not running a complex offense with multiple sets and route trees for their offensive players to memorize and execute. That doesn't mean it's easier to stop.

What the Rams do is line up with the same personnel package on just about every play. They do this to make every play look the same or similar pre-snap in order to mask their tendencies. If your defenders can't read and react, they play slower, or worse they read the play wrong and the offense gets a chunk play.

Here's the problem, in order for a team like the Rams to maintain that edge they have to constantly be innovating and masking their tendencies. Game theory tells us that other teams will incorporate aspects of the Rams scheme that works which will minimize the gap they have over other teams in the league. This also leads to saturation, the more teams using a variant of the Rams offense the more defenses will become accustomed to the picking up on the tendencies and the less effective they will be. Because they run a less diverse scheme they have fewer ways to continue masking their tendencies which is why it's a race against time.

We saw a perfect example of this with Chip Kelly. The Eagles were a top 5 offense in Kelly's first 2 years. After a rough stretch in his first year, they went 21 straight games scoring 20 or more points and averaging 30 points per game. Kelly's scheme was simplistic and other offensive coordinators stole what worked and put it into their scheme. Suddenly more and more teams were trying to run as many plays as possible, spreading the field out to give their QB easier throws underneath, and using presnap motion to open windows in the passing/running game.

In his second season, Kelly ran into two teams. The first team was the 49ers, who set out to stop the running game by staying on the line and not biting on presnap motion/fakes. It worked they held Kelly to a career-low 213 yards, 200 yards below their average. The only other team up to that point to hold them under 300 yards did so in the snow.

Then they played the Seahawks for what many thought would be a battle for the 1st seed. Seattle much like the 49ers didn't respect any of the presnap motion, they sold out to stop the run and take away the short screen game, essentially daring the Eagles to throw the ball vertically. Unfortunately, the Eagles vertical passing game was elementary compared to what most NFL offenses were running and the Seahawks held them to just 139 total yards. The Eagles went on to lose their next 3 games and miss the playoffs at 10-6. In his third season, just about every team adopted a variation of the Seahawks and 49ers strategy and Kelly's offense dropped to 13th. Pretty soon the "greatest" offensive genius in modern football was out of the league.

McVay's offense is nowhere near as simplistic as Kelly's. I think McVay is a better coach than Kelly but the parallels between them are worth considering. McVay's offense turned a bad rookie QB in Goff into one of the most efficient QBs in the league. Goff put up 28TDs to just 7 Int in his second season. Chip Kelly, turned bad rookie QB in Foles into a world beater with better stats than Goff, 27 TDs - 2 Int, and that's in 10 fricken games. Both guys had defenses that got progressively worse the longer they were there. The Eagles defense went from 13th to 19th to 28th. The Rams have gone from 12th to 19th despite having a fricken all-star team on defense this season.

I wrote way more than expected.
 

bmorepunk

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endzorn":1zbkei5u said:
I think the next head coach will be Bruce Bruce Arians for sure.

And bring Holmgren back as OC so we can see two totally pissed off fat dudes with red faces who look like they're going to have immediate medical issues on the sidelines.
 

semiahmoo

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Schotty, thy name is SEAHAWK!

Oh Schotty-Schotty-Schotty.

You magnificent trickster...

giphy.gif
 

AgentDib

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Pete is here as long as he wants to keep coaching and we're lucky to have him.

When that ends, our next HC will depend entirely on what type of owner we ended up with. If Paul was still here we'd be going after another big name but predicting what an unknown owner may do is pointless. For all we know our coach in 2020 will be somebody like Beau Baldwin.
 

toffee

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AgentDib":138aalxk said:
Pete is ere as long as he wants to keep coaching and we're lucky to have him.

When that ends, our next HC will depend entirely on what type of owner we ended up with. If Paul was still here we'd be going after another big name but predicting what an unknown owner may do is pointless. For all we know our coach in 2020 will be somebody like Beau Baldwin.

Not if we have a new ownership,
 

LTH

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ImTheScientist":zfdsder4 said:
He is going to be super successful here. So much so he is going to replace Pete when Pete is done. Pete’s contract ends at the end of the 2019 season paving the way for coach Schotty.

Now that I’m on record I feel much better.



And the Schotty haters go wild! LOL
 
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