Britt practicing at left guard, Gilliam at RT

[MysterMatt]

So Gilliam is quite the athlete, and I'm hoping this is actually truth: he's winning the job at RT. We know Bailey can play LT, so maybe its best we keep him as a utility guy for now. He hasn't been a terrible 6th OL. And Britt? It's pretty clear that he just doesn't have the athleticism to play tackle, but the dude is a beastly run blocker, so maybe LG is the best fit.

Damn, I hope so, and I really freakin' hope the OL can start playing as a unit SOON. I'm not the coach, but cohesiveness is just as important as individual abilities. As some point I suspect Cable will have to just go with his best assessment and get the #1 Unit up to speed as best he can. Individual competitions can progress over the season. Just my two cents, but I think we need the best 5 right now, not necessarily the 5 with the best potential in a year or two.

 

[LickMyNuts]

Justin Britt has heavy feet. We are seeing more pass rushers move over to the right side to take advantage of RT's. Justin Britt is a tackle you can take advantage of in the pass game.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Its a good move if Gilliam takes the opportunity to heart and he certainly seems like one of the hardest workers out there and has more than enough athleticism to succeed.

Seahawks seem scared to death to leave Britt on the edge against speed rushers which every team will exploit. He automatically becomes the best LG with potentially elite run blocking and his pass blocking at the position cant be any worst than what weve seen the last few years with McQ, Carp, and Bailey.

Again this is a good move that balances out the Oline pretty well. Surprised it took this long to think this up. Now its up to Gilliam to prove he belongs.

 

[Scottemojo]

With regards to Bitonio, we all thought he was worth drafting at #32 and I was actually a little surprised that Seattle passed on such good value. But remember that even Bitonio had to move to guard in the NFL due to some limitations in protection. (Of course, Bitonio at LG sounds pretty damn good right now).

Wow, that is some scary revisionism. You said Bitonio struggled with drive blocks and was not worth a First Rounder. In fact, you called his draft selection in the Second Round "Ruskellian," claiming it "reeked" of a choice Tim Ruskell would make. :34853_doh:

The last thing I want is to continue butting heads with you, but someone needs to keep you honest.

The non-pick that stings for me is David Bahktiari in 2013, a guy who arguably fit the Cable mold AND had great college tape. He went in the 4th round and has been a steal for GB (their starting LT on a good line).

FYI, Bahktiari looked pretty bad last week. He appears to be the one weak spot on that Green Bay offensive line, which is something I hope we can exploit with Clark, Avril, Bennett, Irvin, etc.

I call BS. You love butting heads with Kip.

So I went an looked too.

Guess what Kip said not long before the draft?

I think however much you like Bitonio, you should grade him as a guard, not a tackle. Tackles play on an island often with no help outside, so this necessitates playing with both head and shoulders cocked back as far possible. Otherwise, the defender can grab the tackle, yank him forward, and then dip and rip past him all in one motion. Bitonio plays with a lean and pinches his shoulders forward. He is not terrible in pass protection but he looks oh so much like a guard when he pass protects, and this is typically not something that is coachable. Against FSU he struggles against pass rushers who stay low and attack him outside. He could probably "flex" to play tackle in emergencies but he will be an exploitable weakness there against elite pass rushers most likely.

Oh, and

I think as an interior lineman Bitonio will be a slightly above average NFL player which actually makes him a good value at the #32 pick, which isn't nearly as valuable as people believe it to be. If you get a solid player in that range you are doing better than most. For as much as we lament the James Carpenters, Lawrence Jacksons, and Kelly Jenningses, the surprising fact is that all three of those players are basically par for the course in that draft range, which is loaded with draft busts and mediocre journeymen.

All this from an entire writeup he did about Bitonio. Got the bit about him being a guard correct, and said it could be a decent pick at 32.

But press on with your anti-Kip campaign, keep on

 

[Fade]

Seahawks seem scared to death to leave Britt on the edge against speed rushers which every team will exploit.
Again this is a good move that balances out the Oline pretty well. Surprised it took this long to think this up. Now its up to Gilliam to prove he belongs.

I'm so glad, but I am still in shock Cable did it. He can be really stubborn when it comes to his guys. He could've easily played the preseason game 1 card, and keep rolling Britt out at RT.

 

[sc85sis]

FYI

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/633353111357100032[/tweet]

This may have more to do with lack of satisfaction with Bailey than either Britt or Gilliam.

 

[ctrcat]

You can compensate for poor protection by getting the ball out fast. Unfortunately, our QB holds the ball the longest of any QB. I miss Richardson, it seemed like Wilson held the ball a lot less when Richardson was ballin'.

As far as Gilliam, he looks the part physically and that's about it. And though playing guard will help Britt, I don't love putting a pass pro liability like him on the blind side. Seattle needs to stop drafting total projects at OL. Average or better non-projects can be found in Seattle's drafting range.

With regards to Bitonio, we all thought he was worth drafting at #32 and I was actually a little surprised that Seattle passed on such good value. But remember that even Bitonio had to move to guard in the NFL due to some limitations in protection. (Of course, Bitonio at LG sounds pretty damn good right now).

The non-pick that stings for me is David Bahktiari in 2013, a guy who arguably fit the Cable mold AND had great college tape. He went in the 4th round and has been a steal for GB (their starting LT on a good line).

Obviously investing draft capital alone doesn't guarantee results. The number of first round OT busts in recent years is frightening. As for LG, UDFA Andrew Norwell has graded out higher than Bitonio and Zack Martin according to PFF. Both he and 3rd rounder Trai Turner have surpassed 2012 #40 0verall pick Amini Silatolu from a previous GM, giving the Panthers a respectable interior on paper by actually having less capital invested. In the case of Norwell, luck itself is obviously a factor.

 

[Fade]

FYI

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/633353111357100032[/tweet]

This may have more to do with lack of satisfaction with Bailey than either Britt or Gilliam.

Yes, Bailey is factor 1.

Factor 2 imo, is the Seahawks play the Rams D-Line in week 1. Clay Matthews + Julius Peppers coming off the edge in week 2. You will need a more capable RT in pass pro for those games, and going forward.

 

[oasis]

How funny. I've been thinking this, but I'm a pretty unoriginal bastard so I'm sure I read it somewhere. I like it. Gilliam is an athletic freak.

Ya... 305lb athletic freak is right.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Garry_Gilliam/status/613786263762501632[/tweet]

I know it's early, but my concern is that the run-game will suffer because of this slim-bellied ninny. Though now that I think about it, Britt didn't have a flab and was a strong run-blocker. I take back my remark. Please delete this. :2:

 

[garrylt4]

Well Garry Gilliam was my FA Adopt a rookie because we both spell Garry with 2 Rs. So I watched him and liked what little I saw. I like the move but I admit I'm not the best at judging O-line play.

 

[Mojambo]

How funny. I've been thinking this, but I'm a pretty unoriginal bastard so I'm sure I read it somewhere. I like it. Gilliam is an athletic freak.

Ya... 305lb athletic freak is right.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Garry_Gilliam/status/613786263762501632[/tweet]

Good lord. No wonder the Seahawks brass loves this guy so much. That is a ridiculous physique for an offensive lineman.

 

[cheese22]

I'd like to watch Gilliam in last weeks game since, at that time, I didn't focus on him like I probably would now. Where can I stream the game from, or, what's the best way to see it again?

 

[Seafan]

The Hawks will put their best 5 linemen on the field against the Rams as they should. Britt is a big strong guy and should be able to help anchor that interior. He seems like a perfect LG. Gilliam has the arm length and feet to be a decent RT which is better than what the Hawks have had for a while.

 

[northseahawk]

Even if they put John Ryan on the oline, I'd be happy. Can't possibly be anymore worst than what we usually see from the starting wossies.

It's great that they are making these changes and giving a chance to a totally new guy at the oline.

 

[kearly]

All this from an entire writeup he did about Bitonio. Got the bit about him being a guard correct, and said it could be a decent pick at 32.

I'm glad you quoted him. He showed his true colors (taking me out of context to antagonize) and now can't run from it. At least he was smart enough to wait 'til page 2 so that it might go largely unnoticed.

I hope people are waking up to the fact that there is a crucial difference between disagreeing with someone vs. trying to embarrass them / make them look bad.

And for the record, I generally don't view the term 'Ruskellian' a pejorative among certain types of talent. I liked the Earl Thomas pick, and I called that one Ruskellian too. My favorite Seahawks pick ever as it was announced, before Russ, was Brandon Mebane. I loved the Unger pick too. I hoped like hell we'd draft LaVonte David, and he was Ruskell through and through.

I'm pretty sure English liked Bitonio the most, but I was more than fine with Bitonio at #32. Especially when the pick actually arrived and Bitonio seemed like a clear BPA pick.

 

[olyfan63]

I'm not really following what you mean by Ruskellian then, as far as the "package a player comes in".
How is Mebane Ruskellian? And Unger? and ET?

 

[kearly]

This is how I define it:

High Character. Good college production. Very high effort. College experience and awards (captain, etc) a plus. Not scared off by lack of height or size.

Tyler Lockett would have been a Ruskell type pick. Probably Russell Wilson as well.

Obviously, Ruskell got a lot of stuff wrong and was a below average GM. He was very good in rounds 2-3 though, it was basically a sweet spot for his system. Earl was basically a super-charged version of these qualities, the ultra rare example of a Ruskell profile fitting a HoF talent.

 

[kearly]

Obviously investing draft capital alone doesn't guarantee results. The number of first round OT busts in recent years is frightening. As for LG, UDFA Andrew Norwell has graded out higher than Bitonio and Zack Martin according to PFF. Both he and 3rd rounder Trai Turner have surpassed 2012 #40 0verall pick Amini Silatolu from a previous GM, giving the Panthers a respectable interior on paper by actually having less capital invested. In the case of Norwell, luck itself is obviously a factor.

As you point out, there is just a ton of luck in this whole process.

I also tend to believe that where a player ends up has a lot to do with his success. I was so down on Kelvin Benjamin as a prospect, but as soon as I saw him go to Carolina, I knew he'd prove me wrong. He's not a great WR, but he can thrive without competition and Cam's erratic ball placement compliments Benjamin's enormous catch radius. They still have too many failed targets, but that will probably come with experience.

Benjamin was a handful for the LOB both times we played him, which says a lot because they usually dominate big WRs. He basically dropped two TDs in the first game, then caught two in the rematch.

 

[nanomoz]

With regards to Bitonio, we all thought he was worth drafting at #32 and I was actually a little surprised that Seattle passed on such good value. But remember that even Bitonio had to move to guard in the NFL due to some limitations in protection. (Of course, Bitonio at LG sounds pretty damn good right now).

Wow, that is some scary revisionism. You said Bitonio struggled with drive blocks and was not worth a First Rounder. In fact, you called his draft selection in the Second Round "Ruskellian," claiming it "reeked" of a choice Tim Ruskell would make. :34853_doh:

The last thing I want is to continue butting heads with you, but someone needs to keep you honest.

The non-pick that stings for me is David Bahktiari in 2013, a guy who arguably fit the Cable mold AND had great college tape. He went in the 4th round and has been a steal for GB (their starting LT on a good line).

FYI, Bahktiari looked pretty bad last week. He appears to be the one weak spot on that Green Bay offensive line, which is something I hope we can exploit with Clark, Avril, Bennett, Irvin, etc.

I call BS. You love butting heads with Kip.

So I went an looked too.

Guess what Kip said not long before the draft?

I think however much you like Bitonio, you should grade him as a guard, not a tackle. Tackles play on an island often with no help outside, so this necessitates playing with both head and shoulders cocked back as far possible. Otherwise, the defender can grab the tackle, yank him forward, and then dip and rip past him all in one motion. Bitonio plays with a lean and pinches his shoulders forward. He is not terrible in pass protection but he looks oh so much like a guard when he pass protects, and this is typically not something that is coachable. Against FSU he struggles against pass rushers who stay low and attack him outside. He could probably "flex" to play tackle in emergencies but he will be an exploitable weakness there against elite pass rushers most likely.

Oh, and

I think as an interior lineman Bitonio will be a slightly above average NFL player which actually makes him a good value at the #32 pick, which isn't nearly as valuable as people believe it to be. If you get a solid player in that range you are doing better than most. For as much as we lament the James Carpenters, Lawrence Jacksons, and Kelly Jenningses, the surprising fact is that all three of those players are basically par for the course in that draft range, which is loaded with draft busts and mediocre journeymen.

All this from an entire writeup he did about Bitonio. Got the bit about him being a guard correct, and said it could be a decent pick at 32.

But press on with your anti-Kip campaign, keep on

I just want to call attention to this. Because you dudes rule, and because antics like HN2015's need to be hung out to dry so that posters know that when they go out of their way to make other--good posters--look bad, they should do so armed with facts, not bullshit.

 

[Fade]

This is how I define it:

High Character. Good college production. Very high effort. College experience and awards (captain, etc) a plus. Not scared off by lack of height or size.

Tyler Lockett would have been a Ruskell type pick. Probably Russell Wilson as well.

Obviously, Ruskell got a lot of stuff wrong and was a below average GM. He was very good in rounds 2-3 though, it was basically a sweet spot for his system. Earl was basically a super-charged version of these qualities, the ultra rare example of a Ruskell profile fitting a HoF talent.

Ruskell wouldn't have drafted Earl Thomas because he was an underclassmen.

Ruskell liked college Seniors at major programs, with high character (0 tolerance policy), and production. He would sacrifice size, and athleticism.

Ruskell drafted 0 underclassmen & 0 small school prospects with the Seahawks. Which of course is insane because the most talented are the underclassmen (less wear & tear too.) Small school guys are great for the middle and later rounds.