Bruce Irvin Just Made Things Interesting

[pehawk]

I wonder if Bruce's absence will have any intangible impacts? He certainly brings a unique experience & "dawg" factor. One things for sure; much like Carp, Breno & Maxwell his absence will solidify how valuable he truly was

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ Not too sure about that.

I think the Hawks didn't pick up his option for two reasons:

1) With the salary cap you basically have to "pick" between different guys, and they pick KJ Wright over Irvin (and this year I think everyone saw why that may have been the right choice).

2) While Irvin would be easily worth the option for a lot of teams, given what the Hawks ask of him, he's not actually worth that much.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Irvin is "misused" in the Hawks scheme, but I think what they want from him is pretty replaceable.

I think his FA value comes from the assumption that he can excel at more of the high ticket things that the Hawks don't ask of him as much.

(translation: I think a lot of teams see in him a pretty great 3-4 OLB who can excel when moving both forwards and backwards, whereas the Hawks end up asking him to seal the edge with some regularity, which isn't really where he excels --- I don't think the Hawks need to overpay for a guy who they mostly just want to seal the edge and drop back into zone).

 

[Basis4day]

Elway has just gone on record saying they will franchise Von if neccesary so that idea is gone.

Just because he gets franchised doesn't mean he won't move teams.

Personally I would be in favor of giving up two late #1's for him.

Honest question. How many players have been signed by another team after application of the franchise tag and thus given up the two first rd picks?

You should know of at least one.

Who? Work is crazy and i'm not thinking straight.

 

[pehawk]

Who? Work is crazy and i'm not thinking straight.

You're getting old..the answer is Taco Wallace.

 

[TwistedHusky]

What you get from Irvin might be replaceable, but I doubt it.

We've seen Irvin full on cover WR on their routes and stay with them.

And we have seen Irvin used to burn QBs. Who is going to be the additional QB pressure when we need it? Marsh? (Yeah right)

If you want to be a successful defense in a league that is doing everything to make it easy for QBs, then you better be able to pressure the opposing QB. Pulling one of the guys that can do that off the team, because you think you might get someone in the draft (even though pass rushers are a ridiculous premium for the reason above, so you aren't getting a starter in the draft) is foolish.

Pass rushers cost $. Now you can argue that if Bennet, Avril and Irvin are good, why aren't we getting to the QB. And I think that has more to do with signing guys like Ruben instead of McDaniel. Our DTs just aren't getting pressure. But you aren't getting a DT in the draft unless you get lucky, everyone wants those too.

 

[Basis4day]

Who? Work is crazy and i'm not thinking straight.

You're getting old..the answer is Taco Wallace.

Ha. Seriously though.

Who should i be thinking of? Hutch? He was a transition tag, not franchise tag, and we didn't get two first rd picks out of it.

 

[pehawk]

Galloway, sweetie...the answer is Galloway.

 

[Basis4day]

Galloway, sweetie...the answer is Galloway.

Galloway was named an exclusive rights franchise player, so the Hawks had to grant permission for other teams to negotiate with him. They allowed the Cowboys to and then traded him for two 1st rd picks.

Let's say that counts for the sake of argument. So it's happened once, ever?

 

[had2bhawk]

If Bruce Irvin wants to stay in the headlines with a positive note, stay with Hawks and take less money.

 

[HawkFan72]

Here's the reality check. And in this case, I think Florio's spot on.

Still, the 2016 free-agent pickings are slim. And Irvin is in the right place at the right time. And it’s safe to say at this point that someone will pay him, possibly more than he deserves.

Regardless of whether Irvin deserves it, he’s going to get it. Because teams are going to make getting after the quarterback a huge priority.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/10/bruce-irvin-prepares-to-cash-in-on-open-market/

 

[UK_Seahawk]

What was the cut off point for picking up his 5th year option? Has that ship sailed?

Also what would have been the cost of that 5th year? Seems silly to suggest we would offer anywhere near that price.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The FO is allowed to make blunders in other areas, considering their success rate.

But it is pretty clear that not picking up his option or taking that opportunity to lock him in for a reasonable rate for a few years, was a huge tactical blunder.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Irvin is gonna be a Niner

 

[HawkFan72]

What was the cut off point for picking up his 5th year option? Has that ship sailed?

Also what would have been the cost of that 5th year? Seems silly to suggest we would offer anywhere near that price.

It was in the offseason last year.

Irvin, as the 15th pick of the 2012 Draft, would be due $7.8 million in 2016 with the option, but if the option is not picked up, this will be Irvin's contract year.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/5/4/8543 ... agency-nfl

I understand why the FO declined it, but it would be nice to have Bruce another year.

 

[Basis4day]

The FO is allowed to make blunders in other areas, considering their success rate.

But it is pretty clear that not picking up his option or taking that opportunity to lock him in for a reasonable rate for a few years, was a huge tactical blunder.

It would have cost 7.8 million dollars in 2016 to pick up that option and Wilson and Wagner were not yet signed and then you had to navigate all the FA deals this off-season season.

How do you propose they could have worked something out with Irvin?

 

[Popeyejones]

What was the cut off point for picking up his 5th year option? Has that ship sailed?

Also what would have been the cost of that 5th year? Seems silly to suggest we would offer anywhere near that price.

The cut off was last summer.

The option is for one year at about 7.5 million, and it's only guaranteed for injury (meaning, if the Hawks had exercised it last summer they still could have changed their minds at cut him at no penalty any time they wanted to unless he was injured).

I know nobody wants to hear it coming from me, but if the Hawks had ANY intention at all of keeping Irvin they would have exercised the option. There's really no reason not to as 1) it would have kept him on the Hawks for another year at (and likely below) his market rate, 2) would give the team a ton of additional leverage in getting a long-term deal done, and 3) would have allowed for both of these things at really minimal risk because NFL teams are allowed to exercise the option and then not follow through on it if they feel like it.

You have to remember to that the fifth year option was a concession that the NFLPA made to the NFL in the new CBA. Players don't want it and don't like to be tagged with it. Basically Irvin wasn't pissed because he wanted to be tagged with the option, he was pissed because not being tagged with the option was really a slap in the face.

I know I'm a messenger that's likely to be shot, but two things:

1) Last summer when the Hawks didn't pick up his option Irvin's chances of staying with the Hawks long-term dropped closer to 0% than 1%.

2) The Hawks have no shortage of other cap considerations and I *kinda* get the decision, but it is pretty rare (I can't think of another example) for a player of Irvin's caliber to not be optioned.

 

[Popeyejones]

Wilson and Wagner were not yet signed

That part doesn't matter, as the real hustle and shadiness of the option (and why the NFLPA is pathetic) is that you don't actually have to pay out on it to take it.

If Wilson and Wagner's contracts were question marks in keeping Irvin, then they would have just exercised the option and then reneged on it depending on what happened with their contracts.

 

[Basis4day]

Wilson and Wagner were not yet signed

That part doesn't matter, as the real hustle and shadiness of the option (and why the NFLPA is pathetic) is that you don't actually have to pay out on it to take it.

If Wilson and Wagner's contracts were question marks in keeping Irvin, then they would have just exercised the option and then reneged on it depending on what happened with their contracts.

Isn't the 5th year option a true guarantee?

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ Only for injury.

That's the boondoggle of it.

The Hawks could have taken the option last summer and then decided this summer that they changed their minds without any penalty at all (save for injury).

 

[Basis4day]

^^^ Only for injury.

That's the boondoggle of it.

The Hawks could have taken the option last summer and then decided this summer that they changed their minds without any penalty at all (save for injury).

I looked into it and just for clarification:

The window for exercising options starts after a player's third regular season in the NFL ends (Dec. 29, 2014 with the 2012 first round picks). The deadline to pick up the option year is May 3, which is the day after the conclusion of the 2015 NFL Draft. The fifth year is guaranteed for injury when the option is exercised. The injury guarantee would only kick in if a player was unable to play the following season after getting hurt. The option year becomes fully guaranteed on the first day of the league year in the fifth contract year (approximately March 8, 2016 for the 2012 draft class).

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ound-picks

That's a lot to maneuver if Wilson and Wagner were your priorities last summer.