Bye bye Bam Bam?

[IndyHawk]

I was watching "A Football Life" with Steve Largent just last night.
You watch these great ones through the years and see some great stuff that fades with time.
Bam Bam will be on that show one day no doubt as he is one of the great Hawks to play.
It all ends at some point,earlier for some than others but I'm at peace with it.
His health means more than any game.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Well if this truly is the end, it was amazing to have him here for the time he was on the team. He's one of my favorite players. Some of my favorite plays include him absolutely destroying Eric Winston setting the edge, SB 48 (his entire game was practically the best SS game ever), FG block vs Carolina, and of course killing Vernon Davis multiple times.

 

[seahawkfreak]

a tackle is a tackle.

No it's not.

Does it happen at or behind the line of scrimmage or does it happen 5 yards downfield? Does it happen after the player has made a first down or did it prevent a first down? Did it happen after a completion was made in front of the player, or was it a violent, physical, intimidating collision that jarred the ball lose and prevented a completion?

Ask Vernon Davis or Demaryius Thomas if a tack is a tackle.

Not to mention all of the offensive linemen that Kam blew up with regularity, setting the edge or blocking the whole so other players could make a tackle.

Remember how when Kam held out, Earl Thomas was not made captain despite being an All Pro and "the best player on the team?"

Remember how the next year Kam was voted captain AGAIN, even after he "betrayed his teammates."

There's a reason for that.


Cognitive bias is rampant on this board

Some of you guys are getting awfully sensitive and are taking my defense of McDougald out of context and making it seem like I am just hating on Kam. That is seriously ridiculous.

I stand by my tackle is tackle. Who doesn't like it when Kam blows someone up? It is intimidating to opposing players but it may have also shortened his career. In the Eagles game McDougald stacked on the edge on 4th and short, slammed down and tackled the RB in the backfield. Did he blow him up,,, no but he made the tackle and it still was a turnover on downs.

Also Mcdougald's coverage skills are better than Kam's. So we have a versatile safety that can play either FS or SS, can tackle as well as having good coverage skills. Is he better than Kam as a football player and a leader overall, no but he can play good football and saying there was a galaxy of difference between him and Kam definitely implies that McDougald had a subpar season that was a hindrance on the defense, which he was not.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

a tackle is a tackle.

No it's not.

Does it happen at or behind the line of scrimmage or does it happen 5 yards downfield? Does it happen after the player has made a first down or did it prevent a first down? Did it happen after a completion was made in front of the player, or was it a violent, physical, intimidating collision that jarred the ball lose and prevented a completion?

Ask Vernon Davis or Demaryius Thomas if a tack is a tackle.

Not to mention all of the offensive linemen that Kam blew up with regularity, setting the edge or blocking the whole so other players could make a tackle.

Remember how when Kam held out, Earl Thomas was not made captain despite being an All Pro and "the best player on the team?"

Remember how the next year Kam was voted captain AGAIN, even after he "betrayed his teammates."

There's a reason for that.


Cognitive bias is rampant on this board

Some of you guys are getting awfully sensitive and are taking my defense of McDougald out of context and making it seem like I am just hating on Kam. That is seriously ridiculous.

I stand by my tackle is tackle. Who doesn't like it when Kam blows someone up? It is intimidating to opposing players but it may have also shortened his career. In the Eagles game McDougald stacked on the edge on 4th and short, slammed down and tackled the RB in the backfield. Did he blow him up,,, no but he made the tackle and it still was a turnover on downs.

Also Mcdougald's coverage skills are better than Kam's. So we have a versatile safety that can play either FS or SS, can tackle as well as having good coverage skills. Is he better than Kam as a football player and a leader overall, no but he can play good football and saying there was a galaxy of difference between him and Kam definitely implies that McDougald had a subpar season that was a hindrance on the defense, which he was not.

Agree...and to tie into it more....experience will give him more of a presence on the field. That will lead to a rebirth of the Legion if he is given a chance. All I want is to be given a chance.......and one person got it and we were next in line for the SB....That was Richard Sherman. Tis not a quote by any means, but it is what happened.

 

[A-Dog]

a tackle is a tackle.

No it's not.

Does it happen at or behind the line of scrimmage or does it happen 5 yards downfield? Does it happen after the player has made a first down or did it prevent a first down? Did it happen after a completion was made in front of the player, or was it a violent, physical, intimidating collision that jarred the ball lose and prevented a completion?

Ask Vernon Davis or Demaryius Thomas if a tack is a tackle.

Not to mention all of the offensive linemen that Kam blew up with regularity, setting the edge or blocking the whole so other players could make a tackle.

Remember how when Kam held out, Earl Thomas was not made captain despite being an All Pro and "the best player on the team?"

Remember how the next year Kam was voted captain AGAIN, even after he "betrayed his teammates."

There's a reason for that.


Cognitive bias is rampant on this board

Some of you guys are getting awfully sensitive and are taking my defense of McDougald out of context and making it seem like I am just hating on Kam. That is seriously ridiculous.

I stand by my tackle is tackle. Who doesn't like it when Kam blows someone up? It is intimidating to opposing players but it may have also shortened his career. In the Eagles game McDougald stacked on the edge on 4th and short, slammed down and tackled the RB in the backfield. Did he blow him up,,, no but he made the tackle and it still was a turnover on downs.

Also Mcdougald's coverage skills are better than Kam's. So we have a versatile safety that can play either FS or SS, can tackle as well as having good coverage skills. Is he better than Kam as a football player and a leader overall, no but he can play good football and saying there was a galaxy of difference between him and Kam definitely implies that McDougald had a subpar season that was a hindrance on the defense, which he was not.

A) Mcdougald's cover skills are NOT better than Kam's.
B) McDougald is mediocre at SS and a liability at FS in Seatte's scheme. He's a savvy but limited pro - a band-aid, nothing more. A good player to have on your team but probably the first guy you're looking to replace if he's starting.
C) I made a thread (see below) about how we need to keep McDougald - I see his value and I'm not hating on him, I'm just flabbergasted at how overboard some of ya'll are going on how amazing McDougald is and how easily he could replace two hall of famers.

http://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=143109

 

[Uncle Si]

Yes you can load pictures from your phone. PM if you would like to know more.


As far as Kam goes (pardon the pun), he’s been one of my favs but his hold out caused him to lose favor in my eyes.

I’d love for him to be here forever if he can continue to pull his weight, and cover his cost. If not, next man up, and I hope we have, or can find the “next man”.

Kam and his talents/style are few and far between.

Me too. The hold out was selfish. He was preaching about "Love Our Brothers" but cost his team mates a possible shot at another Super Bowl by holding out and us losing a couple of games. That year could have cemented a "Dynasty" and a chance for a lot of Seahawks shot at the Hall of Fame.

But money became more important. He wanted to break Pete and John's standard for rewarding players for his own personal gain.

I still love him and what he's accomplished here, but he and his family have benefited immensely from football. I'm a Momma's boy, and the way he went about buying that house for his Mom brought tears to my eyes. But the hold out was ill-advised.

As far as the tweet, Brock and Salk and Gee talk about it this morning on 710. It could mean anything.

If he is retiring due to a debilitating injury, doesn't that change your opinion of his hold out?

I mean "Love our Brothers" can only go so far before you have to "Take care of yourself too"

Not at all. His hold out was 2 years ago when he had years left on his contract. It had nothing to do with his injury.

People get injured in all walks of life, and it can cost them their careers. But it doesn't make any difference in what kind of person they are. Some choose to go on Social Security, or some, like me, choose to continue working, albeit in a field that requires less physical labor.

NFL football players are taken care of when they get injuries. College football players and High School football players don't. Professional sports players have access to the kind of doctors and treatments the rest of us can only dream of.

Kam's hold out was to say "I deserve more money, and other players are going to have to take less." That hold out didn't hurt fans so much as it hurt his team mates. There's only so much money under the cap, and this team is up against it almost every year. Hence Blair Walsh.

I remember Michael Bennett, Earl Thomas, and others "Kam! Please come back!" He did, after they lost a couple of games, and possibly a shot at home field advantage and the Super Bowl. That effects his team mates more than it effects any of us.

This seems a little distorted.

First, he held out to financially secure his future.. in case something cuts his earning power short (like an injury). The NFL does not take care of these guys after they retire, not in the way a renegotiated contract would. We can debate whether football players SHOULD do this, but it’s pretty common for players who are excelling beyond their pay.

And lastly.. NFL football is nothing like “all walks of life” and comparing it as such really doesn’t equate. Reality and the sports world are just vastly different.

 

[vin.couve12]

If Kam is done, then Kam is done. Let's get this straight in regards to the cognitive bias, as A-Dog states.

Here's the scenarios if Kam is done because at this point, if he is done, it's not about Kam and McDougald...it's about how good your defense is.

FACTUAL DISCLAIMER: This is based on the cold hard truth that sealing edges in the 4-3 Under and Over is of utmost importance to this defense and no safety in the NFL can seal edges as well as Kam. Not even many LBs can.

A) Invest in another LB and keep McDougald at SS, but slightly altering alignment while also keeping a LB on the field more because you don't have that 2 in 1 player. You are now left with less nickel. Remember, run defense is a priority.

B) McDougald is no longer your SS under the current construct of the defense and maybe plays FS or is a backup again. He filled in admirably and is a good player, but overall our run defense will continue to suffer long term if we continue this absolute lie that he can fill that role, which is a coaches luxury.

Again, this isn't about Kam vs McDougald. You'd have to be insane to compare. It's about how this defense operates going forward and how successful it is. Don't lie to yourself. You'll end up in a bad marriage.

 

[vin.couve12]

A tackle is not a tackle.

A quick lesson is to start with this defense that Seattle runs. It's 1 gap and everyone is responsible for their gap. Everyone does their job to plug every gap so that there is no where to run. Discipline is a huge requirement, along with the capability of actually being able to man your gap. To do your responsibility as it pertains to the design of the defense.

When you vacate your gap or retreat to get an angle it WILL bite you and you will lose...literally by way of yardage.

There was once this stat called impact tackles. It measured TFLs, sacks, tackles for less than 3 yard gains, 3rd down stops, 4th down stops, and a couple of others. It was telling that Bobby Wagner and Navarro Bowman dominated these stats for multiple years while it was kept. It was also telling that a guy, who had the stigma of making a lot of downfield tackles coming out of college, never cracked the top 7 of that list. That was Luke Keuckly. It was true in college and it's true in the pros.

Do your job. Don't be a glory boy. A tackle is not just a tackle.

[youtube]3cbpsrN52_o[/youtube]

 

[vin.couve12]

Also, on a side note, one of the single best plays I ever saw Kam make was a game against Dallas. They were driving and got down to the 20 on a 3rd and short. Kam was freaking out and jumping up and down when Dallas lined up. No one could hear him. He ran up to the line and slapped Mebane on his right hip. Mebane slid out to the 3 gap from his usual 1 gap, shot the gap, and crushed their RB just as he got the ball on a pitch out.

Kam ran back to his spot just before the hike and just raised one arm. Didn't even hardly move.

That's what you're replacing even outside of the "savage athlete" as Sherm says. Killed a drive with his mind.

 

[chris98251]

People are saying there will never be another Kam, we waited 20 years or so for the person who was able to be the there will never be another Easley replacement.

 

[NFSeahawks]

There was nothing mediocre about McDougald last year, and yes he's a better coverage safety than Kam. Kam and Earl could've handled both their situations better. They will be hard to replace but I think given the circumstances its time, maybe we can hold on to Sherm.

 

[Grahamhawker]

There was a play that stood out toward the end of the season (Jags game?). Short yardage goal to go run play. McD was in perfect position, but took a bit of an off angle and basically slid off the ball carrier allowing an easy TD. I know it was only one play, but all I can remember thinking was "Kam stops that in the backfield"

Kam will not be replaced when he is done, in the complete physical/cerebral/leadership picture. He is truly that special.

 

[chris98251]

There is a Griffin in the draft that could I think

 

[seahawkfreak]

There is a Griffin in the draft that could I think

Second that.

Also, I know he is listed as a linebacker but Roquan Smith would be a very nice fit as well at SS, especially if he runs at least a 4.6 40.

 

[King Dog]

No worries. I'm sure we hit a home run on Tedric and Delano. We good.

 

[vin.couve12]

Griffin likely goes undrafted. That plays out well for the Hawks. Although in that scenario I don't know if the Hawks touch him, because of his brother. If he doesn't make it, that takes a toll.

I don't mean to be a jerk, I really don't. The underdog mantra fits and he's got great talent. It's just a huge risk that has a greater effect than just cutting an average UDFA. There would be just such a big emotional investment there. It's risky is all, I guess.

 

[Steve2222]

Seattle sports fans hang on and have emotional attachment to their beloved players for too long. Kam is not the same player he was 4-5 years ago. He’s aging and has become a liability in coverage. I’m grateful for everything he’s done for this franchise. But if it’s time to move on, so be it. If he was a Patriot he probably would have been traded or released already. This franchise needs to be more cutthroat. A perfect example is Ty Law. He was dealt away a year before he declined.

 

[vin.couve12]

Four to Five years ago, Ronnie Lott was saying that Kam was playing like the best safety ever except for Kenny Easley. Even if you were remotely correct in his decline, you'd still be talking about an elite LB. You're not though. He still made plays even in deep coverage even this year. It's a different game when you know what's coming vs reacting. Kam has always played fast, but even if he ran a 4.7 like McDougald, he'd still be a great player. It's one of the reasons why McDougald is good despite being a far lesser athlete in basically every category. McDougald is good. He's just not remotely as good as Kam.

Even still, I go back to not trying to have McDougald try to be Kam. There's no point. You really have to invest in an awesome LB at that point and let McDougald play more of an off SS like you used to see more of. He's just not that guy. You'll need a great athlete of a LB who's also a true football player by nature.

You're just frickin asking a lot. It's not just safety.

 

[TreeRon]

"I don't mean to be a jerk, I really don't. The underdog mantra fits and he's got great talent. It's just a huge risk that has a greater effect than just cutting an average UDFA. There would be just such a big emotional investment there. It's risky is all, I guess."
Didn't we release Kam's brother ? At least he got a shot. That's more than 95% of NCAA/NAIA football players.

 

[vin.couve12]

"I don't mean to be a jerk, I really don't. The underdog mantra fits and he's got great talent. It's just a huge risk that has a greater effect than just cutting an average UDFA. There would be just such a big emotional investment there. It's risky is all, I guess."
Didn't we release Kam's brother ? At least he got a shot. That's more than 95% of NCAA/NAIA football players.

You're not wrong. And I guess I'm probably selling them both short.