Byron Maxwell

[Seahawkscrazy]

Lane and Simon both weigh 190lbs. Lane just has more experience at the pro level particularly covering the slot, plus is a pretty good gunner. IMO Simon is in competition for CB2, not so much for BBC.

 

[kearly]

Personally, I would probably take the pick and save the money by letting Maxwell walk. However, if Maxwell gives us a performance on par with Richard Sherman and can be retained for half of what Sherman is costing us, that's a very tempting offer IMO, unless you are sure Tharold Simon can be every bit as dominant.

I think what really interests me about Maxwell is his massive moneyball appeal. He's a bit of a clunky looking player so I think a lot of GMs are going to assume he's the product of a great system, which will keep his asking price way down. But at the same time, his toughness, presence of mind and ball skills are all at an elite level, and it still feels like he could improve substantially in many areas. I don't know if he could be BETTER than Sherman, but I could see a scenario where in a season or two with development it could become an honest debate.

And if you can keep an elite player for half of what he's worth, of course you'd do it right? The only part that makes it tough is that the dropoff from Maxwell to the next guy may not be worth spending the money for. But, if Maxwell ends up being one of the elite corners in the game and you can keep him for a mid-tier contract, I think you keep him.

Regarding our LBs, until we develop a Bowman/Kuechly level superstar back there I don't really want to see any of them given lucrative second contracts. On a team as loaded as Seattle it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to hand out mid-tier contracts to slightly above average players.

Avril I want back, but I am open to replacing him if the right situation materializes.

I don't know that the term "turnstile" in the OP is the best way to describe it. I think of most team members as being on a 4 year cycle.

Well, we're only going to get 1+ seasons out of Maxwell as a starter. If Simon takes over in 2015, we'd only have him for two seasons before he's a FA. If Pinkins replaces Simon in 2017, he'd only have one year before UFA. Realistically, you are looking at a new corner every 1-2 years if they go the rookie contract route.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I wonder what the responses would be if you framed this question as a Maxwell vs. Avril or Maxwell vs. Wagner type thing, because that's ultimately what it would come down to.

Maxwell has shown an incredible knack for making big plays and being physical, but, with Sherman being good enough to play island at LCB and ETIII therefore having more freedom to shade the RCB, I don't know if that's a position you want to dump significant money in. A guy with lesser skill can still shine in that position given the surrounding circumstances.

I don't understand it either... Danny O'neil I suppose planted this seed in an article the other day and its already bearing fruit. Going to Danny O for football insight is like drinking Coors Light or Budweiser in the Pacific Northwest. Why drink watered down horse piss when your backyard is home to the best microbrews in the world?

I don't get the perceptions either way:

Conditioning Measurables
Walter Thurmond: 5-11, 190*, 32 3/4 in Arms, 14 Bench Reps, 4 years EXP (2013)
Jeremy Lane: 6-0, 190* ,32 1/4 in Arms, 12 Bench Reps, 3rd Season
Tharold Simon: 6-2, 200*, 32 3/4 in Arms, 9 Reps, 2nd Season, 1st Active
* draft process weight

Lower Body Strength
Walter Thurmond: N/A
Jeremy Lane: 10'10" in Broad, 42 in Vert
Tharold Simon: 10'08" in Broad, 34 in Vert

Also, in Jeremy Lanes defense:

1. Lane played NCB in the last 4 games of 2013, the defense didn't miss a beat in what was their best 4 game stretch in the regular season. His solid play was lost in the shadow of Maxwell's contributions.

2. Imo, I thought he held his own, and played better than what I saw from Thurmond at times.

3. Lane also was pretty decent vs the run, making several impressive open field tackles.

 

[Jac]

I think Thurmond and Browner will help set the market for Maxwell, from a performance not a dollars perspective. If one or (especially) both play well, somebody is going to give him a pretty good-sized contract.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I think I remember Lane run from wherever it was to block downfield after an interception. I think that speed alone will end up helping him secure a spot with us. If Maxie can play for a midrange or lower contract, we may be able to keep him..but if he wants big bucks, big bucks, big bucks, no whammy......Let him walk.

 

[Jville]

I don't know that the term "turnstile" in the OP is the best way to describe it. I think of most team members as being on a 4 year cycle.

Well, we're only going to get 1+ seasons out of Maxwell as a starter. If Simon takes over in 2015, we'd only have him for two seasons before he's a FA. If Pinkins replaces Simon in 2017, he'd only have one year before UFA. Realistically, you are looking at a new corner every 1-2 years if they go the rookie contract route.

With a college style development system and it's 4 year cycle, starting Juniors and Seniors seems conventional to me. Maybe that backside corner spot sticks out because of the three core exceptions retained via second tour contracts.

I've bought into the notion that they are going to stick with their modified program and demonstrate the results at the NFL level. In so doing, I've become accustom to the turn over. To me, it seems like an unavoidable feature of the program.

 

[jlwaters1]

Seattle led more than it trailed in 2013, and often they led big. Game situations often dictated that opponents abandon the run. Consider that despite these conditions, Richard Sherman was still the least targeted corner in the game.

Meaning, Seattle's other corners were likely targeted a ton and carry a huge amount of importance to our defense, especially since they often cover #1 WRs.

If Maxwell posts 8 interceptions and a low QB rating against next season, yet is limited to a "middle class" level free agent deal on the open market (say $7 million per) due to a lack of resume and scheme concerns, would you want Seattle to budget for him or would you want to see CB #2 be a turnstile given Pete's success?

I see most on this message board having a difficult time with the last week of August this year as we must cut down to 53. Come next February through April, the Front Office will have to make very serious decisions .....some will be very painful for you and me.

I personally don't think they can afford to keep Maxwell, Wagner, Avril or Wright, so I think the point is kind of moot. There probably isn't a 4-3 LB in the league I would pay big money to. Decent, cheap 4-3 LB replacements are wayyyy to easy to find. So in that conversation, I think it would come down to Avril/Maxwell. Of the two, I pay Maxwell at the moment. We haven't seen Avril do anything other than spot duty, and at the very least we could fill in for him with Irvin in a pinch. I would feel more comfortable with that than I would penciling in Simon or Lane at the moment. Could very well change this season.

I think the best chance to keep Maxwell would have been to lock him up right about now. Probably not possible. I like Maxwell a lot, and I think his value over player X may potentially be cavernous, but I just don't think we can afford to pay another one. Have to trust that Carroll and Schneider are going to be able to find/groom a replacement.

I think your underestimating the value of 4-3 lbers, you may have forgotten how horrible our lbers were in 2008 to 2010, Wagner is a top 10 mlb in this league and is on the verge of becoming elite Imo he's the next guy that needs locking up and is critical to the success of our defense.

 

[jlwaters1]

I think I remember Lane run from wherever it was to block downfield after an interception. I think that speed alone will end up helping him secure a spot with us. If Maxie can play for a midrange or lower contract, we may be able to keep him..but if he wants big bucks, big bucks, big bucks, no whammy......Let him walk.

speaking of blocking for lane my favorite play of his last year came on the saints mnf game, the play of avrils strip sack followed by Michael Bennett catching the ball and lumbered into the end zone, lane blocked like a champ to allow Bennett to score, asked afterward about his effort, he said, that he went all out so when it was his turn with a pick others would reciprocate the effort.

 

[Jville]

Jeremy Lane grabbed my attention very early in year one.

I'm looking forward to watching his growth in year three.

 

[niveky]

what if he became good enough(even if not sherman good) where they felt with the pass rush in place and the priority on keeping the pass rush where it is that they were to try to shop sherman in a trade. I don't want sherman to leave the team or anything like that. he is one of my favorite seahawks, but if they show they can continue to develop the corners they get like they do and have them playing at a high enough level, i think that this front office would go for it. I think for the fo if it comes down to the best corner in the game vs a very good corner and 2 - 5 other players they can plug into other positions(obtained in trade, extra cap space freed up from such a trade) and the upgrade would be substantial enough they would do it.

 

[Ziggyy108]

I think I remember Lane run from wherever it was to block downfield after an interception. I think that speed alone will end up helping him secure a spot with us. If Maxie can play for a midrange or lower contract, we may be able to keep him..but if he wants big bucks, big bucks, big bucks, no whammy......Let him walk.

speaking of blocking for lane my favorite play of his last year came on the saints mnf game, the play of avrils strip sack followed by Michael Bennett catching the ball and lumbered into the end zone, lane blocked like a champ to allow Bennett to score, asked afterward about his effort, he said, that he went all out so when it was his turn with a pick others would reciprocate the effort.

The Bennett-Quake

I was at that game. That play was so crazy. The Clink blew up!!!!

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

what if he became good enough(even if not sherman good) where they felt with the pass rush in place and the priority on keeping the pass rush where it is that they were to try to shop sherman in a trade. I don't want sherman to leave the team or anything like that. he is one of my favorite seahawks, but if they show they can continue to develop the corners they get like they do and have them playing at a high enough level, i think that this front office would go for it. I think for the fo if it comes down to the best corner in the game vs a very good corner and 2 - 5 other players they can plug into other positions(obtained in trade, extra cap space freed up from such a trade) and the upgrade would be substantial enough they would do it.

So, they just gave Richard Sherman 4yr, 57 m contract extension when he had one year left on his deal to trade Sherman if Maxwell becomes a premier corner?

Why not keep both players on their rookie deals, either way if Maxwell does great you can sign him to a long-term contract, and you could still franchise Richard Sherman and use him has trade bait.

Byron Maxwell is a better corner than Brandon Browner, a Pro Bowl CB, if he puts in a full year's worth of production that he had in 2013, I can see a team like the Jags giving him 8-9m per year. That's a possible 3rd round Comp for the Seahawks.

But here's the thing Seahawks don't need Maxwell to be the best 2ndary in the NFL. We've all seen players Browner (CFL UDFA), Lane (6th Round), Thurmond (4th Round), and Maxwell (6th Round) all excel when given the opportunity. In fact every cornerback they have drafted thus far have all been above average to All Pro except for Simon who was injured. His rookie season.

You trade Sherman, even therotically, you lose a lot of off-the-field genius as well as a lot of personality and moxie on the field. Is Maxwell, even the same cornerback without Sherman in his ear as a friend, teammate, and roommate (on the road)? Sherman is a coach as much he is a player, that's why the Seahawks had no problem making him one of the highest paid CBs. Where Earl Thomas has physical abilities that makes everyones job easier, Sherman has mental influences in the film room and on the field that make the game simplier. Not many CBs can become a better WR than the opposing WR, and not many players can or are willing to use their abilities and knowledge to make the whole classroom better. No doubt, Sherman's a teachers pet and the Seahawks have no qualms paying him what they did.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I think I remember Lane run from wherever it was to block downfield after an interception. I think that speed alone will end up helping him secure a spot with us. If Maxie can play for a midrange or lower contract, we may be able to keep him..but if he wants big bucks, big bucks, big bucks, no whammy......Let him walk.

speaking of blocking for lane my favorite play of his last year came on the saints mnf game, the play of avrils strip sack followed by Michael Bennett catching the ball and lumbered into the end zone, lane blocked like a champ to allow Bennett to score, asked afterward about his effort, he said, that he went all out so when it was his turn with a pick others would reciprocate the effort.

The Bennett-Quake

I was at that game. That play was so crazy. The Clink blew up!!!!

I remember seeing a cell phone video of an outside view from 3 blocks away possible just outside PS... the whole stadium was shaking, had that been in the Kingdome it would have collapsed upon it self.

 

[Smellyman]

I think what really interests me about Maxwell is his massive moneyball appeal. He's a bit of a clunky looking player so I think a lot of GMs are going to assume he's the product of a great system, which will keep his asking price way down.

I blame the number. 41 just looks clunky on a corner.

 

[Throwdown]

I think what really interests me about Maxwell is his massive moneyball appeal. He's a bit of a clunky looking player so I think a lot of GMs are going to assume he's the product of a great system, which will keep his asking price way down. quote]

I blame the number. 41 just looks clunky on a corner.

plus the looseness of his uniform.

 

[Hawks46]

Hell yes we keep him.

I've advocated trying to offer him a contract if he comes out of TC the clear winner at his position, and plays the first quarter of the season at the same level he did last year.

I don't know if we could afford it, but a contract is the 6-8 mil/year range would be a steal for that guy. I know we have a ton of guys like Simon, Shead, etc. that are looking very good, but Maxwell has proven it on an NFL playing field, and at the highest level.

Thing is, I think he can get better. Maxwell is damned good at run support as well as blowing up screens and short passes in the flats. We don't know if our other CB's are capable of that yet. Bet your ass I'd lock him up for 4 years if possible.

 

[hawknation2014]

That's definitely TBD. We have a couple pretty exciting corner prospects to develop in Jeremy Lane and Tharold Simon. Each is taller and more athletic than Maxwell. What they have lacked is the opportunity to prove their worth on the field, which was also true of Maxwell until December 2013. Lane is ready breakout in his role as the slot corner, and Simon will see his first playing time on special teams and in a reserve role at press corner.

In terms of valuing our impending free agents, I have Avril, Wright, and Smith ahead of Maxwell. But Maxwell could command more on the market than any other free agent because he's only 26 years old and everyone wants a piece of the Legion of Boom right now. That would concern me if I didn't think Lane and Simon had a chance to be even better than Maxwell in coverage.