Did Carroll get outcoached at the end?

[Vancanhawksfan]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

I'd bet to say he would have 2 of 6 with the Super Bowl on the line

If there was an incompletion, you'd have a problem if they ran Lynch on both 3rd and 4th down instead of the 2nd down?!?!?

 

[marko358]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

Weren't most of those in the KC game when our OLine was banged up? Our OLine was mauling yesterday.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

so what? You don't give him a chance in the biggest carry of his life? How many times did Lynch run for or was tackled for a loss yesterday??

So run him on 3rd and 4th down then. If the pass is incomplete it assures the Hawks get to run two more plays instead of one (assuming the pass is an interception which 99/100 times it will be)

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

Weren't most of those in the KC game when our OLine was banged up? Our OLine was mauling yesterday.

Then run him on 3rd and 4th down if you don't make the pass completion for a TD.

 

[marko358]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

Weren't most of those in the KC game when our OLine was banged up? Our OLine was mauling yesterday.

Then run him on 3rd and 4th down if you don't make the pass completion for a TD.

OK Darrell Bevell. Go update your resume instead of posting on a message board.

 

[volsunghawk]

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

I think Bevell and Carroll played the matchup instead of trusting the offense to just out-physical the D and gain 1 yard. The play was called based on what they saw on the field and not based on the identity that Carroll built. In the end, it was about them and not about us - which flies in the face of what our players always say.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

Except the last five times Lynch carried from the 1 he only scored once. 1/5.

What about from the 2? How about the 3? I seem to recall punching one in earlier in the same game and getting a 4 yard run on the previous play.

The 1/5 is not as relevant as you would like because they were different teams in different situations. Patriots were the worst team in the league in power situations. This was the fourth quarter and the defensive line was tired.

My point was that its not automatic just to run him in.

Run him on 3rd and 4th down if you want. But if you run him on 2nd down you throw away one opportunity at goal if he doesn't make it because you won't be able to execute any play on 4th down if you try to run on both 2nd and 3rd down. At least passing on 2nd down you get one shot at a pass play PLUS the possibility of running on 3rd and 4th down.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

I think Bevell and Carroll played the matchup instead of trusting the offense to just out-physical the D and gain 1 yard. The play was called based on what they saw on the field and not based on the identity that Carroll built. In the end, it was about them and not about us - which flies in the face of what our players always say.

They were also quoted as saying they wanted to be able to preserve the ability to run 3 plays in 26 seconds by calling a pass play in that situation.

 

[Austin Hawk]

The Big Picture...

Carroll and Bevell allowed the Pats to be the protagonist, and we responded. We should be the protagonist, forcing the Pats to adjust and respond. Every person on the planet knew the smart play was to run Marshawn.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

There are some who think Belichick outcoached Carroll at the end. He put in his goal-line package against the Seahawks' trips personnel -- almost goading them to throw (which they did). By not calling a time-out, he put Carroll in a position to make a decision with only one timeout left and the clock ticking down. If they called a run, and didn't get in, they would likely have called a timeout, and would also have forced Seattle to try at least one pass play on 3rd/4th down.

I'm not 100% sure if I'm sold on that theory, but it's reasonable.

Yes he got schooled no question. That play call was inexplicable as was the clock management of the last minute or so. Hopefully he'll learn from it, other then that I'm not sure if Bevell should be fired or was that call really on Pete.

The only guy that was telling the truth in a way even though it was both ill advised and not the full truth was Bevell given the explanation given by Pete and Russell made absolutely no sense at all. At worst they had 2nd and Goal with 30 seconds and a timeout which would have allowed AT LEAST two runs with Marshawn.

 

[Hyak]

The Patriots were prepared for the play we ran, which is why Kearse failed to pick Butler who cut off the route and got the pick. Kudos to them and shame on us.

Strategically, passing on 2nd down isn't a bad decision IMO given the timeout situation and wanting to bleed the clock. The personnel grouping and call, however, were the problems in hindsight. A play action pass out of the run set with Wilson have a run/pass option to me would have been safer and likely more effective.

What's done is done though.

 

[jblaze]

One interesting thing here to me was the mismanagement of the timeouts in the last drive. If we would have had at least one of those timeouts back, we would have run all four downs there at the end.

One timeout was blown because RW was changing the protections and ran out of time. The other was the Kearse play where we had a hard time getting ready to go after the big play way down the field.

Just one of those two timeouts back and we likely win this game with Lynch.

 

[NFSeahawks]

if we stuck to ground and pound on the last play like we have relied on for the last 3 years...we all would be sporting back to back shirts right now...

Lynch was 1/5 in his last five attempts from the one.

In my heart, I know he would have scored.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Patriots were prepared for the play we ran, which is why Kearse failed to pick Butler who cut off the route and got the pick. Kudos to them and shame on us.

That's the fatal flaw with the entire play. Browner was manhandling Kearse the ENTIRE game, so if you're Bevell why the hell do you think he could successfully get off his block from Browner and pick Butler?

If you wanna call a pass play, then fake the handoff and roll out and throw to the back of the endzone. That way it's either a TD or Russell throws it away. In no universe was a slant a good idea, no matter the defensive look, time left, personnel, anything.

 

[DavidSeven]

No, I don't think so. I think he took lessons from the Atlanta and Green Bay games where the defense was burned in 30 seconds. They made a calculated decision that blew up on them. If it had gone another way, Belichick would probably be second-guessed for not burning his remaining timeout earlier. That doesn't even get into the fact that probability shows that passing at the 1-yard line is statistically a very safe and successful call.

Not to say it was a great call. I wouldn't have gone that way, and there was probably a better way to do it. I wouldn't have called a pick-slant because I hate that play for Russell and always have. I just don't think you can declare "better coaching" over a single play. Too much involved.

 

[furi0usbee]

An almost as big play was Seattle jumping at the 1. Who knows what happens if Patriots have to run from the endzone. Then the 15 yard penalty was the last straw. Much closer game than I expected. Patriots got their money's worth, that's for sure.

 

[volsunghawk]

Nah, we overthunk it.

Went for the ideal scenario of clock management rather than focusing on just securing the points with the best matchup.

I think we just lost the forest for the trees and out thought ourselves.

We also were playing for fourth down when probably 2 tries would have been sufficient.

I think Bevell and Carroll played the matchup instead of trusting the offense to just out-physical the D and gain 1 yard. The play was called based on what they saw on the field and not based on the identity that Carroll built. In the end, it was about them and not about us - which flies in the face of what our players always say.

They were also quoted as saying they wanted to be able to preserve the ability to run 3 plays in 26 seconds by calling a pass play in that situation.

See, I think that's a problem. Do you want multiple plays, or do you want a TD? It was the SB. Lynch damn near scored on the play immediately before. We were on the 1. I don't see any scenario in which we don't score a TD by handing it off to Lynch twice.

 

[HawkerD]

It might be a reach but I think both PC and Bevel firmly believed we would score in that situation (2nd and goal from the 1)and they (specifically Bevel), consciously or not, chose the pass to make Wilson, rather than lynch the hero (and thus the MVP).

To them either play call was going to work and they went with this one because of an ulterior motive.

This might be over-thinking it but I have to rationalize something to preserve my sanity.

 

[kjreid]

I don't think PC was outcoached.....the guy jumped the route and the execution was not there.

 

[marko358]

I don't think PC was outcoached.....the guy jumped the route and the execution was not there.

They interviewed the guy who picked it off. He said they saw this play on tape and knew it was a tendency. So yeah...outcoached.