Does Wilson even belong in the MVP discussion at all?

[lobohawk]

Of course Russell should be in the discussion. When you do things never done in an NFL season and have some pedigree, then it's inevitable.

How I'd rank them this year.

Palmer : coming off injury, playing tough schedule, great record, pretty great stats
Cam : 45 TDs and the team record carry huge weight (weak schedule hurts that part)
Wilson: slow start, average team record, record breaking second half
Brady : just because Brady's supposed to be discussed

 

[Smellyman]

the 45 TDs, while impressive, is a bit like RBI in baseball, it's as much of a team stat as an individual stat.

This argument is more persuasive if Carolina had a lot of talent on offense that was contributing to these numbers. Their receivers are among the worst in the league in drop-rates and overall efficiency.

I read a stat where Ted Ginn had close to 400 yards of dropped yardage, which was far and away the most in the NFL. And he's their best wideout! I've watched plenty of Carolina this year. Ginn isn't dropping speed balls. He's dropping balls that are floated into his lap.

5 other pro bowlers on offense besides Cam.

Seattle had Baldwin go as an alternate.

 

[Anthony!]

Huh? Are you trolling?

Not trolling...just curious what my fellow Hawk fans think about it. Maybe I just don't really care about individual accolades.

If he does not belong than neither does Newton

Newton 7 games with a QB rating below 80, 5 below 75, 3 below 70,1 below 60 did not even complete 60% of his passes

Just to compare
Wilson had 1 game below 80,

Lets compare them
Cam qb rating 99.4, QBR 66.1, 3837 yards, 7.74 ypa, 59.8 complt%, 35 tds, 10 ints 3.5/1 td/int ratio, 636 rushing yards, 10 tds, 4.8 ypa rushing, 4473 total yards, 45 total tds
Wilson QB rating 110.1, QBR 74.9, 4024 yards, 8.33 ypa, 68.1 complt%, 34 tds, 8 ints, 4.25/1 td/int ratio, 553 rushing yards, 1 td, 5.4 ypa, 4577 total yards, 35 total tds

So lets see
Qb rating WILSON
QBR WILSON
Passing Yards WILSON
Passing YPA WILSON
Complt% WILSON
Passing TDS CAM
Ints WILSON
TD/INT Ratio WILSON
Rushing Yards CAM
Rushing TDs CAM
Rusign YPA WILSON
Total Yards WILSON
Total Tds CAM

So out of 13 stats Wilson Leads in 9 HMM

I agree with you for the most part. But Cam did beat Russell's butt in TD's this year...#1 scoring offense...15-1 record. Given the fact that Russell wasn't spectacular in the first half of the season, it makes his final numbers even more incredible.

Not saying that I think Cam deserves it. I'd rather see Palmer win. I'm thinking more in terms of is it worth it to waste discussion/debate with fans of other teams when Russell will not win anyway? For example: what would be the strategy of trying to get fans of other teams to vote for Wilson when he won't win anyway. Would it be better to save those arguments for a year when Russell can at least win?

we to you the fact that Cam got more TDs is more important than all the other stats? The fact that Cam has 7 games of a QB rating below 80, when 85 is considered avg, to Wilsons only 1? I mean really this to me is open and shut. The real reason Cam will win is; 1st round pick, east coast, over 6foot, great defense, great run game, that was a major reason they were 15-1. The same things that was held against Wilson now helps Cam. Heck even in the game we played them earlier Wilson qb rating 96.7, Cam 65.6Wilson even out rushed him. If anyone actually look at the over all facts it will not be so cut and dry, if they look at only the 15-1 and east coast biased it will be.

 

[DavidSeven]

the 45 TDs, while impressive, is a bit like RBI in baseball, it's as much of a team stat as an individual stat.

This argument is more persuasive if Carolina had a lot of talent on offense that was contributing to these numbers. Their receivers are among the worst in the league in drop-rates and overall efficiency.

I read a stat where Ted Ginn had close to 400 yards of dropped yardage, which was far and away the most in the NFL. And he's their best wideout! I've watched plenty of Carolina this year. Ginn isn't dropping speed balls. He's dropping balls that are floated into his lap.

5 other pro bowlers on offense besides Cam.

Seattle had Baldwin go as an alternate.

Cam made Stewart this year. He is otherwise just an above-average RB talent at best. To my eye, Rawls is a better player. The only advantage I give Cam is the OL. Obviously, Olsen is great but Russ had Jimmy Graham for half the year. Tolbert is Tolbert, same guy he's been for years -- only getting recognized because he's the fullback of a good team.

 

[Smellyman]

Is the OP serious? Wilson was by far the most valuable player on by far the best team (by DVOA) in football. Of course he belongs in the discussion.

As far as Newton getting it, I think he's deserving like a few other players, but personally he would place pretty far from 1st on my MVP ballot. He's basically the favorite for two reasons: 15-1 and 45 TDs. The 15-1 record comes largely from having the easiest schedule in the NFL while also being very lucky in close games, and the 45 TDs, while impressive, is a bit like RBI in baseball, it's as much of a team stat as an individual stat.

My vote for MVP would be Palmer or Wilson. I'm not sure who, I'd probably have to flip a coin.

My thoughts exactly.

But Cam was written as the winner weeks ago, like Arians last year.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

I agree that Cam's stats aren't as mind blowing as most would think, but the fact that he led his team to a 15-1 record is all he really needs to win the MVP. Believe it or not, MVP is based a lot on your teams performance. If not Megatron probably could have won it the year he broke the receiving record a couple years ago.

Wilson won't win the MVP, but I'd love to see him finish in the top 3 in voting.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Wilson deserves to be in the discussion, doesn't mean he will win it, give it to Cam or Palmer I don't care.

Wilson was finally given free reign and they gave him more responsibility in the passing game and he thrive, now if he was given more of it early in the year when the O-line was struggling he might of actually had 40+ TDs by the end of this year.

The good news is I'm glad the offense is looking more potent it's something to look forward to for next year.

2012 Adrian Peterson Won MVP, the team was 5-3, Peterson had 775 yards 4 TD in the first half, Second half of the season 5-3, 1322 yards 8 TD. They were 6-6 at one point until winning their next 4 games to make it into the wildcard.

So First half he wasn't all that spectacular then 2nd half started balling out. Peterson won despite having an ok first half, he won anyways against at least 4 QBs posting over 30TDs all with winning records (all made it to the playoffs). Also beat out WRs like Brandon Marshall, Dex Bryant, AJ Green and Demaryius Thomas who all had over 1300+ yards and 10+TDs.

 

[Anthony!]

Just as a bit of extras info even though I hate QBR Wilsons QBR was 74.9 4th in the league, Cams 66.1 9th so Wilson wins there too. Add to that Wilsons QBR pass was 85.4, running 17.9, Cams 70.4 passing, 17.5 rushing so Wilson wins in both categories. Cam will win, he was on the team with the best record and had a great season. But statistically wise he should not as he did not have the better season. To me it would be Palmer or Wilson

 

[Uncle Si]

Troll alert.

A real fan would not believe such a thing.


So I ask again, what true fan would exclude him from MVP consideration?

Pack it in

Argue the merits if you want to contribute. But let's leave the name calling elsewhere.

 

[Ozzy]

The OP explained what he meant and it made much more sense.

 

[rcaido]

Cam -I think you put in a backup QB for Cam, they would win most of the games probably 12-4. Their schedule was way too easy & their defense takeaways got them a lot opportunities too score.

Palmer - Put in a backup for Palmer, they would probably be 9-7. Without Palmer they were able to win last year but their schedule this year was a lot more difficult.

For the Seahawks 4-12...

Not only Wilson should be in the discussion, i have him leading & Palmer right behind him. You have a crappy O-line & able put up numbers like Wilson did is mind blowing.