Does Wilson even belong in the MVP discussion at all?

[Willyeye]

Statistically Wilson's case is as strong as anyone. I would argue just looking at the numbers Cam would be 3rd or 4th. What hurts Wilson is what Largent talked about above, team wins. I think a strong case can be made for Wilson, Brady, Cam and Palmer.

If you weren't trolling then I apologize for insinuating. Not everyone is a stat/numbers guy and enjoys the game in different ways.

I made this list last March. After the Hawks win the SB and Wilson gets the SB MVP, I'm going to update my list. :lol:

One could easily say that overall, Wilson has had the best first three years of any QB in NFL history. Here are a few of his accomplishments:

- Wilson is the first QB in NFL history with a passer rating of over 95.0 in each of his first three seasons.
- Wilson has 24 games with a passer rating of 100+ in his first three seasons...more than any other QB in NFL history. Flacco, Marino, and Palmer are tied for second with 19.
- Wilson leads all QB’s in the NFL over the last 3 years with 10- 4th quarter comebacks and 15- game-winning drives. No other QB in NFL history has ever done this in their first 3 years.
- He is one of only five players with at least 20 touchdown passes in each of first three seasons.
- Wilson is the first and only QB in the Super Bowl era to have average yards per attempt of 7.6 or better in each of his first three seasons.
- Wilson’s career yards per passing attempt of 7.9 is fourth-best of all QB’s since 1951.
- Wilson is ranked #1 in career postseason yards per attempt. His career average of 9.01 (min. 200 pass attempts) is the highest in NFL history.
- Wilson is the only QB in NFL history to appear in two SB's in his first three seasons.
- Wilson holds the record for most passing yards in a playoff game by a rookie QB with 385 yards. The old record was set in 1937 by Sammy Baugh with 335 yards...that record stood for 75 years.
- Wilson is ranked at #2 in all-time career passer rating (min. 1200 attempts) with a 98.6. Only Aaron Rodgers has a higher career passer rating.
- Wilson's passer rating of 98.6 for a player’s first 3 years is the best in NFL history.
- Including postseason, Wilson's passer rating of 98.5 for a player's first three years is the best in NFL history.
- Wilson's postseason passer rating of 97.8 in his first three years is the best in NFL history.
- Wilson’s career postseason passer rating of 97.8 (min. 200 attempts) is the 5th best in NFL history.
- Wilson's TD% of 5.8% in his first three years is the 2nd highest in NFL history; only Dan Marino is higher with 6.9%.
- Wilson's INT% of 2.1% in his first three years is the lowest of any QB in NFL history.
- Wilson is ranked #2 all-time with a career TD to INT ratio of 2.77 (min. 1200 attempts) behind only Rodgers.
- Wilson is ranked #3 all-time with a career INT rate of only 2.1%, behind only Rodgers and Brady.
- Wilson is the first and only QB in NFL history to throw for 300+ yards and run for 100+ yards (313 & 106) in the same game...against the Rams on 10-19-14.
- Only one QB in NFL history had more than one season with more than 20 TD passes and 10 or fewer interceptions in his first three seasons: Wilson, who has had three such seasons.
- His 72 touchdowns are the seventh-most ever through a player’s first three seasons.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has 84 passing TD's in his first three seasons, 4th-most in NFL history.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has 97 passing and rushing TD's in his first three seasons, 3rd-most in NFL history.
- Wilson is ranked #12 all-time for most passing yards by a QB in his first three years with 9950 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson is ranked #5 all-time for passing yards by a QB in his first three years with 11770 yards.
- Wilson is ranked #5 all-time for most total yards (passing + rushing) by a QB in his first three years with 11827 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson is ranked #2 all-time for most total yards (passing and rushing) by a QB in his first three years with 13902 yards.
- Wilson has the 2nd highest career yards per attempt in SB history with 9.85 yards, behind only Terry Bradshaw.
- Wilson has the 3rd highest career passer rating in SB history with a 117.39, behind only Joe Montana and Jim Plunkett.
- Wilson has the 6th highest career completion % in SB history with 65.22%.
- Wilson has the 4th highest yards per attempt in a SB game with 11.76 yards in SB49.
- Wilson's 1,877 rushing yards is second-most by a QB in the modern era through three seasons behind Cam Newton's 2,032 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has the most rushing yards for a QB in NFL history in his first three seasons with 2132 yards.
- Wilson led all NFL rushers in 2014 with an average of 7.2 yards per carry.
- Wilson has a record of having had a lead at some point in 56 straight games since 2012...the old record was 45 games...Also, in those 56 games, Wilson has never lost an NFL game by more than 9 points.
- Wilson has won 36 games in his first 3 seasons; three more than any other QB in NFL history.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has won 42 games in his first three seasons; 6 more than any other QB in NFL history.

 

[Willyeye]

Too short.

Seriously though, the Seahawks have been the best team over the last 4 years going to 2, maybe 4 Super Bowls and have won 0 coach of the year awards, 0 Front Office of the Year awards, 0 MVPs, 0 Offensive Player of the Year. The only accolade they've really received is the Defensive Player of the Year for Sherman.

Of course Wilson doesn't belong in the discussion because that's just the way it is.

Forgot to mention...Sherman hasn't technically ever won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year Award...JJ Watt actually won the award for 2014. Sherman only won the NFC Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2014.

 

[Smellyman]

Carolina scored more points than anyone in the league. And it was a one-man show. Cam scored 45 TDs.

You better believe if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning score 45 TDs on the league's highest scoring team, they are running away with the MVP award.

That said, of course Russell belongs in the discussion, and he is. He will likely finish 4th, behind Palmer and Brady. That isn't a slight. Being considered the fourth best player in the NFL this year is NOT disrespect. Other players have had fantastic seasons too. Unlike Palmer and Brady, Russ is going to have many, many more cracks at it.

big shoutout to their D forcing 39 takeaways, by far most in the league. No team had more oppurtunites to score. Not to mention their schedule was last in the league in strenght of schedule.

The 10 rushing TDs is kind of odd since they call his number often and Cam being Cam, he calls his own number A LOT when on the 5 yard line or closer. He has a lot of QB sneaks because he is huge.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

He belongs in the discussion but he isn't even close to Cam IMO. Cam balled out for the entire season, Russ balled out for only the second half of the season. Then take into account the team records and the fact that Cam beat RE in the head to head matchup and Cam wins easily.

The real question is who is #2 behind Cam in the MVP voting?

 

[Smellyman]

He belongs in the discussion but he isn't even close to Cam IMO. Cam balled out for the entire season, Russ balled out for only the second half of the season. Then take into account the team records and the fact that Cam beat RE in the head to head matchup and Cam wins easily.

The real question is who is #2 behind Cam in the MVP voting?

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=121483&p=1799634#p1799634

 

[Smellyman]

Statistically Wilson's case is as strong as anyone. I would argue just looking at the numbers Cam would be 3rd or 4th. What hurts Wilson is what Largent talked about above, team wins. I think a strong case can be made for Wilson, Brady, Cam and Palmer.

If you weren't trolling then I apologize for insinuating. Not everyone is a stat/numbers guy and enjoys the game in different ways.

I made this list last March. After the Hawks win the SB and Wilson gets the SB MVP, I'm going to update my list. :lol:

One could easily say that overall, Wilson has had the best first three years of any QB in NFL history. Here are a few of his accomplishments:

- Wilson is the first QB in NFL history with a passer rating of over 95.0 in each of his first three seasons.
- Wilson has 24 games with a passer rating of 100+ in his first three seasons...more than any other QB in NFL history. Flacco, Marino, and Palmer are tied for second with 19.
- Wilson leads all QB’s in the NFL over the last 3 years with 10- 4th quarter comebacks and 15- game-winning drives. No other QB in NFL history has ever done this in their first 3 years.
- He is one of only five players with at least 20 touchdown passes in each of first three seasons.
- Wilson is the first and only QB in the Super Bowl era to have average yards per attempt of 7.6 or better in each of his first three seasons.
- Wilson’s career yards per passing attempt of 7.9 is fourth-best of all QB’s since 1951.
- Wilson is ranked #1 in career postseason yards per attempt. His career average of 9.01 (min. 200 pass attempts) is the highest in NFL history.
- Wilson is the only QB in NFL history to appear in two SB's in his first three seasons.
- Wilson holds the record for most passing yards in a playoff game by a rookie QB with 385 yards. The old record was set in 1937 by Sammy Baugh with 335 yards...that record stood for 75 years.
- Wilson is ranked at #2 in all-time career passer rating (min. 1200 attempts) with a 98.6. Only Aaron Rodgers has a higher career passer rating.
- Wilson's passer rating of 98.6 for a player’s first 3 years is the best in NFL history.
- Including postseason, Wilson's passer rating of 98.5 for a player's first three years is the best in NFL history.
- Wilson's postseason passer rating of 97.8 in his first three years is the best in NFL history.
- Wilson’s career postseason passer rating of 97.8 (min. 200 attempts) is the 5th best in NFL history.
- Wilson's TD% of 5.8% in his first three years is the 2nd highest in NFL history; only Dan Marino is higher with 6.9%.
- Wilson's INT% of 2.1% in his first three years is the lowest of any QB in NFL history.
- Wilson is ranked #2 all-time with a career TD to INT ratio of 2.77 (min. 1200 attempts) behind only Rodgers.
- Wilson is ranked #3 all-time with a career INT rate of only 2.1%, behind only Rodgers and Brady.
- Wilson is the first and only QB in NFL history to throw for 300+ yards and run for 100+ yards (313 & 106) in the same game...against the Rams on 10-19-14.
- Only one QB in NFL history had more than one season with more than 20 TD passes and 10 or fewer interceptions in his first three seasons: Wilson, who has had three such seasons.
- His 72 touchdowns are the seventh-most ever through a player’s first three seasons.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has 84 passing TD's in his first three seasons, 4th-most in NFL history.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has 97 passing and rushing TD's in his first three seasons, 3rd-most in NFL history.
- Wilson is ranked #12 all-time for most passing yards by a QB in his first three years with 9950 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson is ranked #5 all-time for passing yards by a QB in his first three years with 11770 yards.
- Wilson is ranked #5 all-time for most total yards (passing + rushing) by a QB in his first three years with 11827 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson is ranked #2 all-time for most total yards (passing and rushing) by a QB in his first three years with 13902 yards.
- Wilson has the 2nd highest career yards per attempt in SB history with 9.85 yards, behind only Terry Bradshaw.
- Wilson has the 3rd highest career passer rating in SB history with a 117.39, behind only Joe Montana and Jim Plunkett.
- Wilson has the 6th highest career completion % in SB history with 65.22%.
- Wilson has the 4th highest yards per attempt in a SB game with 11.76 yards in SB49.
- Wilson's 1,877 rushing yards is second-most by a QB in the modern era through three seasons behind Cam Newton's 2,032 yards.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has the most rushing yards for a QB in NFL history in his first three seasons with 2132 yards.
- Wilson led all NFL rushers in 2014 with an average of 7.2 yards per carry.
- Wilson has a record of having had a lead at some point in 56 straight games since 2012...the old record was 45 games...Also, in those 56 games, Wilson has never lost an NFL game by more than 9 points.
- Wilson has won 36 games in his first 3 seasons; three more than any other QB in NFL history.
- Including the postseason, Wilson has won 42 games in his first three seasons; 6 more than any other QB in NFL history.

too short

 

[AceBoogie]

Panthers fan here, yes he deserves to be in the discussion. What he did in the second half of the season was remarkable and surprised a lot of people. Myself included. Honestly he'd be #2 or #3 on my list.

 

[Hasselbeck]

If by discussion you mean.. for like a 2nd or 3rd place vote sure. Cam should win going away this year.

 

[HawkGA]

Too short.

Seriously though, the Seahawks have been the best team over the last 4 years going to 2, maybe 4 Super Bowls and have won 0 coach of the year awards, 0 Front Office of the Year awards, 0 MVPs, 0 Offensive Player of the Year. The only accolade they've really received is the Defensive Player of the Year for Sherman.

Of course Wilson doesn't belong in the discussion because that's just the way it is.

Forgot to mention...Sherman hasn't technically ever won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year Award...JJ Watt actually won the award for 2014. Sherman only won the NFC Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2014.

Wow. Had't realized that. I thought he was the league wide one. That really is sad.

 

[Willyeye]

If by discussion you mean.. for like a 2nd or 3rd place vote sure. Cam should win going away this year.

My original thought was: is it worth it for us to waste the goodwill of fans of other MVP candidates on a season when Russell won't win anyway? Maybe leave the discussion for non-Seahawk fans?

 

[Anthony!]

Huh? Are you trolling?

Not trolling...just curious what my fellow Hawk fans think about it. Maybe I just don't really care about individual accolades.

If he does not belong than neither does Newton

Newton 7 games with a QB rating below 80, 5 below 75, 3 below 70,1 below 60 did not even complete 60% of his passes

Just to compare
Wilson had 1 game below 80,

Lets compare them
Cam qb rating 99.4, QBR 66.1, 3837 yards, 7.74 ypa, 59.8 complt%, 35 tds, 10 ints 3.5/1 td/int ratio, 636 rushing yards, 10 tds, 4.8 ypa rushing, 4473 total yards, 45 total tds
Wilson QB rating 110.1, QBR 74.9, 4024 yards, 8.33 ypa, 68.1 complt%, 34 tds, 8 ints, 4.25/1 td/int ratio, 553 rushing yards, 1 td, 5.4 ypa, 4577 total yards, 35 total tds

So lets see
Qb rating WILSON
QBR WILSON
Passing Yards WILSON
Passing YPA WILSON
Complt% WILSON
Passing TDS CAM
Ints WILSON
TD/INT Ratio WILSON
Rushing Yards CAM
Rushing TDs CAM
Rusign YPA WILSON
Total Yards WILSON
Total Tds CAM

So out of 13 stats Wilson Leads in 9 HMM

 

[ctrcat]

Carolina scored more points than anyone in the league. And it was a one-man show. Cam scored 45 TDs.

You better believe if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning score 45 TDs on the league's highest scoring team, they are running away with the MVP award.

That said, of course Russell belongs in the discussion, and he is. He will likely finish 4th, behind Palmer and Brady. That isn't a slight. Being considered the fourth best player in the NFL this year is NOT disrespect. Other players have had fantastic seasons too. Unlike Palmer and Brady, Russ is going to have many, many more cracks at it.

big shoutout to their D forcing 39 takeaways, by far most in the league. No team had more oppurtunites to score. Not to mention their schedule was last in the league in strenght of schedule.

The 10 rushing TDs is kind of odd since they call his number often and Cam being Cam, he calls his own number A LOT when on the 5 yard line or closer. He has a lot of QB sneaks because he is huge.

Jim Brown and Barry Sanders are the only players in NFL history to have 500 yards, 5.0+ YPC, and 5+ TDs five times in their entire careers. Cam did it in his first four seasons, narrowly missing the 5.0 YPC (4.8) this year despite rushing for more yards than he did the two years prior.

If your rushing stats put you in Jim Brown/Barry Sanders company, one could argue that to NOT sacrifice your body and NOT use that insane ability to help your team when need be would be selfish.

 

[Anthony!]

Carolina scored more points than anyone in the league. And it was a one-man show. Cam scored 45 TDs.

You better believe if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning score 45 TDs on the league's highest scoring team, they are running away with the MVP award.

That said, of course Russell belongs in the discussion, and he is. He will likely finish 4th, behind Palmer and Brady. That isn't a slight. Being considered the fourth best player in the NFL this year is NOT disrespect. Other players have had fantastic seasons too. Unlike Palmer and Brady, Russ is going to have many, many more cracks at it.

big shoutout to their D forcing 39 takeaways, by far most in the league. No team had more oppurtunites to score. Not to mention their schedule was last in the league in strenght of schedule.

The 10 rushing TDs is kind of odd since they call his number often and Cam being Cam, he calls his own number A LOT when on the 5 yard line or closer. He has a lot of QB sneaks because he is huge.

Jim Brown and Barry Sanders are the only players in NFL history to have 500 yards, 5.0+ YPC, and 5+ TDs five times in their entire careers. Cam did it in his first four seasons, narrowly missing the 5.0 YPC (4.8) this year despite rushing for more yards than he did the two years prior.

If your rushing stats put you in Jim Brown/Barry Sanders company, one could argue that to NOT sacrifice your body and NOT use that insane ability to help your team when need be would be selfish.

when you have a top 10 Rb and that RB only has 6 tds while your QB calls his own number, yeah that is shellfish.

 

[Willyeye]

Huh? Are you trolling?

Not trolling...just curious what my fellow Hawk fans think about it. Maybe I just don't really care about individual accolades.

If he does not belong than neither does Newton

Newton 7 games with a QB rating below 80, 5 below 75, 3 below 70,1 below 60 did not even complete 60% of his passes

Just to compare
Wilson had 1 game below 80,

Lets compare them
Cam qb rating 99.4, QBR 66.1, 3837 yards, 7.74 ypa, 59.8 complt%, 35 tds, 10 ints 3.5/1 td/int ratio, 636 rushing yards, 10 tds, 4.8 ypa rushing, 4473 total yards, 45 total tds
Wilson QB rating 110.1, QBR 74.9, 4024 yards, 8.33 ypa, 68.1 complt%, 34 tds, 8 ints, 4.25/1 td/int ratio, 553 rushing yards, 1 td, 5.4 ypa, 4577 total yards, 35 total tds

So lets see
Qb rating WILSON
QBR WILSON
Passing Yards WILSON
Passing YPA WILSON
Complt% WILSON
Passing TDS CAM
Ints WILSON
TD/INT Ratio WILSON
Rushing Yards CAM
Rushing TDs CAM
Rusign YPA WILSON
Total Yards WILSON
Total Tds CAM

So out of 13 stats Wilson Leads in 9 HMM

I agree with you for the most part. But Cam did beat Russell's butt in TD's this year...#1 scoring offense...15-1 record. Given the fact that Russell wasn't spectacular in the first half of the season, it makes his final numbers even more incredible.

Not saying that I think Cam deserves it. I'd rather see Palmer win. I'm thinking more in terms of is it worth it to waste discussion/debate with fans of other teams when Russell will not win anyway? For example: what would be the strategy of trying to get fans of other teams to vote for Wilson when he won't win anyway. Would it be better to save those arguments for a year when Russell can at least win?

 

[DavidSeven]

Carolina scored more points than anyone in the league. And it was a one-man show. Cam scored 45 TDs.

You better believe if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning score 45 TDs on the league's highest scoring team, they are running away with the MVP award.

That said, of course Russell belongs in the discussion, and he is. He will likely finish 4th, behind Palmer and Brady. That isn't a slight. Being considered the fourth best player in the NFL this year is NOT disrespect. Other players have had fantastic seasons too. Unlike Palmer and Brady, Russ is going to have many, many more cracks at it.

big shoutout to their D forcing 39 takeaways, by far most in the league. No team had more oppurtunites to score.

I'm sure this helps them, but I don't think it accounts solely for the huge production. Seattle had 39 takeaways in 2013, but Russ did not have anything close to 45 total TDs or 35 passing TDs that year.

 

[ctrcat]

Carolina scored more points than anyone in the league. And it was a one-man show. Cam scored 45 TDs.

You better believe if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning score 45 TDs on the league's highest scoring team, they are running away with the MVP award.

That said, of course Russell belongs in the discussion, and he is. He will likely finish 4th, behind Palmer and Brady. That isn't a slight. Being considered the fourth best player in the NFL this year is NOT disrespect. Other players have had fantastic seasons too. Unlike Palmer and Brady, Russ is going to have many, many more cracks at it.

big shoutout to their D forcing 39 takeaways, by far most in the league. No team had more oppurtunites to score. Not to mention their schedule was last in the league in strenght of schedule.

The 10 rushing TDs is kind of odd since they call his number often and Cam being Cam, he calls his own number A LOT when on the 5 yard line or closer. He has a lot of QB sneaks because he is huge.

Jim Brown and Barry Sanders are the only players in NFL history to have 500 yards, 5.0+ YPC, and 5+ TDs five times in their entire careers. Cam did it in his first four seasons, narrowly missing the 5.0 YPC (4.8) this year despite rushing for more yards than he did the two years prior.

If your rushing stats put you in Jim Brown/Barry Sanders company, one could argue that to NOT sacrifice your body and NOT use that insane ability to help your team when need be would be selfish.

when you have a top 10 Rb and that RB only has 6 tds while your QB calls his own number, yeah that is shellfish.

Stewart was held out the last 3 weeks, so Cam actually only had 7 (to Stew's 6) while they were both active. If you watched Stewart's reaction in the moment, and, later, here with Jim Rome, his reaction was far more ecstatic and unglued over Cam's front flip than Cam himself. http://jimrome.com/2015/09/22/jonathan- ... rome-show/

 

[jlwaters1]

I get where you're coming from. I would take a SB MVP all day over league MVP too for what its worth

Also the League MVP hasn't had much success winning the Super Bowl. Look back over the last decade and a half, only Aaron Rodgers has won the MVP and the Super Bowl in the same year. So let Cam win it, we all know they'll be 1 and done in the playoffs.

 

[Seanhawk]

Too short.

Seriously though, the Seahawks have been the best team over the last 4 years going to 2, maybe 4 Super Bowls and have won 0 coach of the year awards, 0 Front Office of the Year awards, 0 MVPs, 0 Offensive Player of the Year. The only accolade they've really received is the Defensive Player of the Year for Sherman.

Of course Wilson doesn't belong in the discussion because that's just the way it is.

Forgot to mention...Sherman hasn't technically ever won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year Award...JJ Watt actually won the award for 2014. Sherman only won the NFC Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2014.

Is NFC Defensive Player of the Year award even a thing?

 

[kearly]

Is the OP serious? Wilson was by far the most valuable player on by far the best team (by DVOA) in football. Of course he belongs in the discussion.

As far as Newton getting it, I think he's deserving like a few other players, but personally he would place pretty far from 1st on my MVP ballot. He's basically the favorite for two reasons: 15-1 and 45 TDs. The 15-1 record comes largely from having the easiest schedule in the NFL while also being very lucky in close games, and the 45 TDs, while impressive, is a bit like RBI in baseball, it's as much of a team stat as an individual stat.

My vote for MVP would be Palmer or Wilson. I'm not sure who, I'd probably have to flip a coin.

 

[DavidSeven]

the 45 TDs, while impressive, is a bit like RBI in baseball, it's as much of a team stat as an individual stat.

This argument is more persuasive if Carolina had a lot of talent on offense that was contributing to these numbers. Their receivers are among the worst in the league in drop-rates and overall efficiency.

I read a stat where Ted Ginn had close to 400 yards of dropped yardage, which was far and away the most in the NFL. And he's their best wideout! I've watched plenty of Carolina this year. Ginn isn't dropping speed balls. He's dropping balls that are floated into his lap.