Mr.Hawkbrah":2s5u6uhr said:
...give me 2 kearses on the team instead of db and we still win the superbowl. its not saying kearse is better or worse, its saying the difference that it makes to the team is negligible in the big picture of how good we are and especially when considering how cap effects teams. ...cause neither are worth (to our offense not implying skill set) over 5 mill a year that a lot of number 2s go for. our team will survive without 5 tds a year from either of them imo.
The problem is that we would not have made it to the Super Bowl in the first place with 2 Kearses and no Baldwin. We would have lost 2 more games during the regular season that were Baldwin-only plays. We would have been a wild card. Then we would have stood a good chance of losing to San Fran in the conference championship, playing them at their house.
We also would not have made it to the Super Bowl without the emergence of Kearse picking up some of the slack for Sidney Rice. But 2 Kearses and no Baldwin--that combination leaves us at home watching the 49ers pounding the Broncos in the Super Bowl. Probably also true for 2 Baldwin's and no Kearse.
Baldwin is the quickest, cut-on-a-dime-est player on the Seahawks. Not the flat-out-speed fastest, but the quickest at the 3-cone time on the team, of all the ones I looked at. And he has developed chemistry with Russell Wilson. Not saying he can't be replaced, just saying he is a higher value to this team than some people are giving him credit for. We'd pretty much need to have a 2nd round pick to be assured of getting a comparable talent. And then there is the risk factor of drafting a bust, plus the ramp-up-speed risk factor of having a new WR take 2 years to get familiar with the system and making plays, like the 2 years it took Golden Tate to get to being a productive receiver.
SDHawk":2s5u6uhr said:
Where would you rank DB in this list?
Sidney Rice
Braylon Edwards
Mike Williams
Deion Branch
Deon Butler
Ben Obomanu
Brandon Stokley
Nate Burleson
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Slot WR's:
1. Baldwin
2. Stokely/Branch
3. Butler ("sort of" a slot guy)
WR Overall Value to Seahawks (during their Seahawks tenure, including WR and special teams)
1. Sidney Rice
2. Doug Baldwin
3. Mike Williams (for that part of one glorious year he had)
4. Nate Burleson
5. Brandon Stokely
6. Deion Branch (injured so much it's hard to recall his contributions)
6. Braylon Edwards (for that part of one season)
6. Ben Obomanu (special teams factor)
7. Nearly all the remaining, including Housh,
8. Deon Butler, at the bottom
Recall that we also let 4th rounder Chris Harper walk, T.O. failed to make the team, and cut Kris Durham after a year, and he became a starting WR for the Lions.
Baldwin came in as a rookie and was instantly productive, even with TJack throwing to him.
Are we assuming relative to where each was when they came to the Seahawks?
If so, really his competition is Branch, Butler, Stokely, and sort-of-but not-really Obomanu.
Rice, Williams, Burleson, Braylon, and Housh are all different types of receivers.
Of the slot guys, I would put DB at the top, just barely above both Branch and Stokely as Seahawks. Branch was good when he had Tom Brady throwing to him. When Hasselbeck was throwing to him, Branch wasn't as good, plus he was injured a lot in Seattle IIRC. Stokely seems like a fair comparison, and I'd put DB slightly above Stokely.
In terms of overall value to the team, the only guys above Baldwin would be Rice (when healthy) and Mike Williams during the prime of his one good year, but obviously not now. Housh sucked as a Seahawk. Burleson had his moments, but as a Seahawk, I don't recall him making nearly as many key plays as Baldwin.
Does the world end if Baldwin leaves? No, but he is a key part of the machine, and we should do everything we reasonably can to keep him, at least long enough to have another high quality slot receiver ready to step in. I think it would be better to keep Baldwin + Kearse and let Tate go, if push comes to shove. Tate and Kearse have some overlap in their game. Baldwin's abilities and role are a little more distinct and unique within the Seattle WR personnel group.
Again, remember the typical 2-year learning curve for many rookie WR's... We need to keep Baldwin at least until his replacement is ready.
If push comes to shove, keep Baldwin if we can make a good deal with him, and let Tate get paid elsewhere.