Earl Thomas best defensive Seahawks player ever?

[vin.couve12]

FWIW:

Had a chance to talk with former San Francisco 49er and one of the best safeties of all-time, if not the best, Ronnie Lott. Lott is a fan of Kam Chancellor.


Here’s what Lott had to say about Chancellor, after calling Chancellor and Earl Thomas “the best safety tandem in the league.”

“Kam Chancellor right now is as good as any safety that’s played in the game of football,” Lott said. “It’s hard for me to say this, but there was only one guy that I know that’s better and that’s Kenny Easley. He was defensive player of the year and best player to play the safety position, ever. He is getting to close to being in that community of greatness. And that is hard for me to say that because I have the utmost respect for Kenny Easley. That group, those two (Chancellor and Thomas), they’re playing at that level.

“Those two will be playing a role in (the Super Bowl) because they attack people. They will have a chance to make plays or they will have a chance to not make plays. I’m hoping for their sake, they do what they’ve done all season long. Tackling well, doing just the basics. They are fun to watch.”

Reminded he was a pretty good safety, Lott reluctantly agreed before talking more about Easley.

“I would tell you I look up to Kenny. When I look at Kenny and I look at myself, the only thing that separates us is Kenny didn’t get a chance to do it as long. That’s the only thing.”

“If Kam can do it for 10-plus years? And which it looks like he can, he will go down as a great, great football player. He clearly has shown up not only with his striking ability, not only his ability to dissect plays, and he’s playing a very instrumental role in being able to understand the pass and the running game. People know where the corners are, they also know where these two safeties are.”

 

[Ozzy]

I can't believe Sherman doesn't get more love currently. He might be the best ever at corner and he's rarely talked about in here. I love Chancellor but he's no Sherman.

 

[warden]

Thomas may be good but he just does not dominate the game the way Easley and Tez did

 

[themunn]

Whilst I agree that it's hard to proclaim ET the best ever given guys like Tez and Easley exist, at the same time, we've NEVER seen a Pete Carroll defense without ET, he's played every single game for 6 straight seasons now, already has the same number of All-Pro awards as both, and has helped preside over a record-setting defense.

Let's not forget that just 1 year ago he missed ALL of training camp and EVERY preseason game, and he still played at an elite level.

For the reasons above among others, I have absolutely no problem with him being proclaimed the greatest ever - and I think if he has another 3-4 years of the same level of play, it will be a fairly easy decision.

 

[Ozzy]

Thomas may be good but he just does not dominate the game the way Easley and Tez did

Or Sherman.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Although there is lots of love I think people may understate the importance of a player of Thomas' abilities to our passing scheme. While Sherm has unbelievable skills in his own right, Sherm's game depends on having a guy like Thomas in the middle. He just isn't as effective when not playing that left side in cover 3. That's not to say he is a bum when he travels into the slot but just to say Sherm's greatness is much more scheme dependent than Thomas'. I think Sherm may not be in the league if he was drafted by the Saints compared to an almost sure HOFer for the Seahawks whereas Thomas would be a multiple Pro Bowler on any team in the league.

I think free safeties are also just difficult to appreciate because much of what they do we don't see or never materializes. If a free safety does their job then the QB doesn't throw their way. Earl Thomas not getting picks should not be an indictment - it means he is in the right position and QBs aren't throwing his way often. Compared that to JJ Watt who, when he does his job, get lots of attention.

Therefore, I think it will be difficult for Thomas to ever surpass Kennedy because of differences in eras and positions (and the opportunity for a defensive MVP) but he will be a solid second with Sherman and Easley close behind.

Also, I think not penalizing Easley a bit for longevity isn't quite fair. When you play like Thomas and Chancellor combined - you're gonna have a short shelf life - especially with pain management and trainers they had in the 1980s. That being said, I think Easley will go in the Hall of Fame as a veteran's committee selection in the future.

 

[Tical21]

I can't believe Sherman doesn't get more love currently. He might be the best ever at corner and he's rarely talked about in here. I love Chancellor but he's no Sherman.

If Deion is a 10, Sherman is a 7 at best.

 

[vin.couve12]

Dunno about that. I've literally seen Deion get put to the ground 3 times in one play while in Dallas. He was worthless as a tackler and run defender. One of the best pure cover corners ever, but also a pretty boy wuss.

 

[Ozzy]

I can't believe Sherman doesn't get more love currently. He might be the best ever at corner and he's rarely talked about in here. I love Chancellor but he's no Sherman.

If Deion is a 10, Sherman is a 7 at best.

I couldn't disagree more. Part of a CB's game is also stopping the run and that was an even bigger responsibility in Deion's day. He was terrible at it while Sherman is arguably the best in the league against the run. His advanced stats are also very similar to Sanders and he can't put his hands on the receiver like Sanders could. Sherman>Sanders.

 

[Tical21]

Lol @ CB's being judged by how they stop the run. This is a passing league. Was then, is now. Corners are ultimately judged by one thing and one thing only. Is Antoine Winfield one of the best corners to ever play the game?

There is not one single receiver, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer to be covered by Richard Sherman instead of Deion Sanders. There is not one quarterback, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer Richard Sherman was covering his best receiver instead of Deion Sanders.

 

[HansGruber]

Lol @ CB's being judged by how they stop the run. This is a passing league. Was then, is now. Corners are ultimately judged by one thing and one thing only. Is Antoine Winfield one of the best corners to ever play the game?

There is not one single receiver, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer to be covered by Richard Sherman instead of Deion Sanders. There is not one quarterback, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer Richard Sherman was covering his best receiver instead of Deion Sanders.

Deion got abused by Rice, Irvin, Keyshawn, and other great receivers of his day. He once gave up something like 10 catches for 150 yards and 3 TDs to Rice.

Deion was more like Patrick Peterson than Sherm. Really good sometimes but with the tendency to get absolutely dominated by better receivers.

 

[HansGruber]

Lol @ CB's being judged by how they stop the run. This is a passing league. Was then, is now. Corners are ultimately judged by one thing and one thing only. Is Antoine Winfield one of the best corners to ever play the game?

There is not one single receiver, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer to be covered by Richard Sherman instead of Deion Sanders. There is not one quarterback, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer Richard Sherman was covering his best receiver instead of Deion Sanders.

Deion got abused by Rice, Irvin, Keyshawn, and other great receivers of his day. He once gave up something like 10 catches for 150 yards and 3 TDs to Rice.

Deion was more like Patrick Peterson than Sherm. Really good sometimes but with the tendency to get absolutely dominated by better receivers.

Looked it up. Rice had 13 catches for 255 yards and 5 TDs. At the time, it was a record breaking day. I still remember him cutting and juking Deion out of his shoes.

Sherman has never had a game like that. Sherm also has better stats in every category and will end his career with more INTs, PDs, wins, etc.

So Your argument would be purely sentimental. Those of us who actually watched both play know the truth. Deion was great at marketing PrimeTime but he wouldn't even be average in today's NFL because he sucked against larger faster receivers. He relied on speed but didn't have the agility to deal with guys who could cut etc. He also took advantage of the old rules which allowed contact down field. That's why better receivers like Irvin and rice would put up big numbers against him, they'd fight back, get a few steps on him and be gone. I've never seen receivers do that for s whole game against Sherm just like Deion never had a day like Sherm did against calvin Johnson.

I find it absurd when people rank Deion better than Sherman. Deion would be average in today's NFL.

 

[Ozzy]

Lol @ CB's being judged by how they stop the run. This is a passing league. Was then, is now. Corners are ultimately judged by one thing and one thing only. Is Antoine Winfield one of the best corners to ever play the game?

There is not one single receiver, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer to be covered by Richard Sherman instead of Deion Sanders. There is not one quarterback, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer Richard Sherman was covering his best receiver instead of Deion Sanders.

I didn't say that was the only reason he was great. Statistically he's as good as anyone has been. Your point about who a current or past QB wouldn't want to cover their WR is sort of a strange one as well. How many current or past QB's have played against both corners?

My point was coverage wise Sherman is right up there with Sanders, Revis etc as one of the handful of guys who have been truly elite in coverage. Factor in that he is also league best at stopping the run is icing on the cake but you knew that and you're just being obtuse for the sake of it.

I think you can make an argument for Sherman, Thomas, Easley etc. I just think Sherman deserves a little more credit than he gets in these discussions. I'll let Tical continue to talk about Sanders in a discussion about the greatest Seahawks defender ever.....

 

[scutterhawk]

I think Easley is the best. He would have been a HoF lock if he had played 4 more years at a mediocre level. He only lacked longevity. Hell, Ronnie Lott (yes, that Ronnie Lott) said Kenny Easley was the best safety to EVER play the game. I honestly think he belongs in the Hall of Fame, and I think he was the most talented player in Seahawks history.

THIS ^^^^
I love me some ET, but when you get REAL sound bites from REAL experts like Ronnie Lott, it lends a lot of credibility to the discussion.
To those who've never had the experience of watching Kenny Easley ripping it, you've been shortchanged.

 

[Ozzy]

Easley was a monster for sure and underrated from a national perspective.

 

[Tical21]

Lol @ CB's being judged by how they stop the run. This is a passing league. Was then, is now. Corners are ultimately judged by one thing and one thing only. Is Antoine Winfield one of the best corners to ever play the game?

There is not one single receiver, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer to be covered by Richard Sherman instead of Deion Sanders. There is not one quarterback, past or present, not one, that wouldn't prefer Richard Sherman was covering his best receiver instead of Deion Sanders.

Deion got abused by Rice, Irvin, Keyshawn, and other great receivers of his day. He once gave up something like 10 catches for 150 yards and 3 TDs to Rice.

Deion was more like Patrick Peterson than Sherm. Really good sometimes but with the tendency to get absolutely dominated by better receivers.

Looked it up. Rice had 13 catches for 255 yards and 5 TDs. At the time, it was a record breaking day. I still remember him cutting and juking Deion out of his shoes.

Sherman has never had a game like that. Sherm also has better stats in every category and will end his career with more INTs, PDs, wins, etc.

So Your argument would be purely sentimental. Those of us who actually watched both play know the truth. Deion was great at marketing PrimeTime but he wouldn't even be average in today's NFL because he sucked against larger faster receivers. He relied on speed but didn't have the agility to deal with guys who could cut etc. He also took advantage of the old rules which allowed contact down field. That's why better receivers like Irvin and rice would put up big numbers against him, they'd fight back, get a few steps on him and be gone. I've never seen receivers do that for s whole game against Sherm just like Deion never had a day like Sherm did against calvin Johnson.

I find it absurd when people rank Deion better than Sherman. Deion would be average in today's NFL.

All six TD's Rice had that year were against Charles Dimry. Maybe you misremembered.

 

[formido]

If you look at Seattle's team defensive passer rating, in the season and a half before Sherman, it was near the bottom of the league. Inflected at the game Sherman stepped onto the field, in the middle of his rookie season, it vaulted to the top of the league and has been near the top ever since.

It's pure ignorance to downplay what Sherman has done. The facts have hardly ever been more in someone's favor.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Easley for me with ET, Sherm and Tez not far behind. Next tier would include guys like B Wagz, Jacob Green, etc.

 

[hawker84]

I think Easley is the best. He would have been a HoF lock if he had played 4 more years at a mediocre level. He only lacked longevity. Hell, Ronnie Lott (yes, that Ronnie Lott) said Kenny Easley was the best safety to EVER play the game. I honestly think he belongs in the Hall of Fame, and I think he was the most talented player in Seahawks history.

I couldn't agree more. Easley not only laid out big hits, but was an INT machine. He was all over the field, and he masked some pretty bad defensive teams he was on. He was also on some damn good ones.

Yep, 100%

 

[hawker84]

I can't believe Sherman doesn't get more love currently. He might be the best ever at corner and he's rarely talked about in here. I love Chancellor but he's no Sherman.

If Deion is a 10, Sherman is a 7 at best.

I would give him an 8 or 9. Sherman is great, HOF potential no doubt. but to compare him to the greats, he's not at that level IMO.