ESPN rates Wilson the 8th best QB

[Overseasfan]

It is honestly not that far off. Russ has the tendency to make big plays when necessary and is by far the best runner out of the QBs but he is simply not as reliable as most of the others.

I would but Rodgers, Brady and Big Ben above him and then put him in the next tier with Brees, Romo and Luck. Rivers is a tier lower in my opinion and Manning in the form we have seen him in recently certainly does not belong near Russ either.

 

[scutterhawk]

Lists and rankings have become so popular with the emergence of technology and the internet. I remember way back in the day when I would rank players with friends at school, now people make livings ranking players on twitter, blogs, internet, etc.

There isn't a right or wrong answer, but 8 seems about right. I will say that Wilson is probably one of the hardest QB's to rank. He plays on such a dominant team. How would he fair without the league's top RB and run game? How would he fair without the best defense behind him? Obviously both the run game and defense benefit RW, but people often knock Wilson for it. It's not RW's fault that he plays on the Seahawks. But I understand the skepticism. He is also an unconventional QB. Most these rankings focus on pure passing. RW is a dual threat QB. Last I checked he ran for over 800 yards last year (ranked #16), led the NFL in yards per rush attempt, and ranked 7th with 8 runs of 20 yards or more.

All I know is that RW is probably the best fit for the Seahawks. Only other QB who could probably do the job better on our team is Aaron Rodgers, and that's because I think he could be the greatest QB of all time. Put Peyton or Brady behind our Oline and they would be getting sacked at a very high rate.

Don't kid yourself into believing that Rodgers could have made our existing Receivers a whole lot better than they have been, or that he wouldn't be hit, pressured and sacked at a pretty high rate, what with the O-Line frequently caving in, (except for the Running game aspect), he might be mobile, but he's no Russell Wilson when it comes to escaping pressure, and the nearly 900 yards is the reason for the Seahawks Running game being one of the most explosive in the NFL.
With RW, and his "Dual Threat" the running game is maximized, without RW, ? not quite so dangerous.

Several of these Quarterbacks are rated as high or higher than Wilson, but the overall numbers (games won, Passer ratings, TD's /Interceptions action under pressure) just don't back up some of their inflated rankings.
Should Russell Wilson get paid ridiculous money?, I think not, but, downgrading by some people ( not insinuating that that's what you're saying) on Wilson's attributes are just as ridiculous.
As you noted, Russell Wilson is indeed a perfect fit for what the Seahawks need....and his dual threat play has also proven to be good for Tom Cable's style of Offense.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This is about where I would rank Wilson. He is a hard QB to peg down due to his unique style. He does so many things well, yet he is sorely lacking in some fundamentals as a passer. He's more of a play maker than a field general, which is not a bad thing by any means. For these reasons I think ESPN was justified giving Wilson the 8th ranking.

Sorely lacking in what 'fundamentals,' pray tell. Good gawd.

I'll humour you and elaborate on that point. Wilson is imperfect as a passer, though because of his unique abilities, and ability to throw darts on the run he is able to compensate.

Wilson is severely lacking in a couple of areas that every top tier QB has mastered. These skills are fundamental pillars to playing QB in the NFL. The biggest area he's struggles in is his inability to recognize certain coverages. Cover 1 is the coverage that he seems to struggle with the most. He has a hard time adjusting, and finding open receivers if he cannot get out of the pocket against this particular coverage.

Wilson is does not manage the game at the LOS very well. He's not great at directing traffic and changing plays based on the situation. This is a skill-set that every good Quarterback should have. Towards the end of the year he was thrust into this roll more than usual, but still demonstrated that this is not a strength in his game. This goes back to recognizing what strategy a defense is trying to employ against him. Both of these are related, this is not an area that he excels in.

Wilson struggles over the middle of the field. This may be due to his stature, but I'm more of the opinion that it is due to his playing style. Even when Wilson can step up into the pocket he does not. He prefers to stay deep in the pocket even when he has one, and bail when pass rushers start closing on him. This approach is hit and miss. It can create opportunities down the field, but it also creates many missed opportunities as well. Wilson's pocket management skills are quite possibly the weakest part of his game. If he can master pocket management it will bring his passing game to a different level.

Wilson really struggles with structure, specifically timing routes. The entire offense is geared towards this fact, it's designed to let him ad lib until a receiver pops open. This style creates big plays, but on the other hand it also creates stalled drives. Wilson especially seems to struggle with slant routes, this is not just the last play of the super bowl coloring my view either. His ball placement and timing is off on slants, I contend this is usually where we turn the ball over. He just isn't that great at short timing routes such as the slant.

Essentially, the point I'm trying to drive home is he relies too much on his ability to improvise, and make things happen outside the pocket. This is both a good, and bad thing for Wilson. Wilson will never take the next step as a QB unless he corrects some of the points I mentioned above. He can get away with not being that great at those thing because of his unique talent. He needs to become more refined in the passing department, if he can do that, and balance structure with his magical state of chaos then he can make Manning, and Brady an afterthought in the modern NFL. Right now he is not there yet, and he is lacking in very important these fundamentals.

 

[themunn]

The running back and the tight end can help him.

The TE? They say that as if he's had Jimmy Graham for the last 3 years.

If you can make the game one-dimensional for him where he has to be a total pocket passer, it gets tough.”

Yeah and if you can wrap Marshawn Lynch up with two guys at the LoS then he won't go far. Easier said than done.
In reality what they mean anyway is "if you can make the game into a situation where he has to be a pure pocket passer, blitz the hell out of him and also hope to keep the WRs covered then he might struggle. but generally he doesn't".

 

[RichNhansom]

This is about where I would rank Wilson. He is a hard QB to peg down due to his unique style. He does so many things well, yet he is sorely lacking in some fundamentals as a passer. He's more of a play maker than a field general, which is not a bad thing by any means. For these reasons I think ESPN was justified giving Wilson the 8th ranking.

Sorely lacking in what 'fundamentals,' pray tell. Good gawd.

I'll humour you and elaborate on that point. Wilson is imperfect as a passer, though because of his unique abilities, and ability to throw darts on the run he is able to compensate.

Wilson is severely lacking in a couple of areas that every top tier QB has mastered. These skills are fundamental pillars to playing QB in the NFL. The biggest area he's struggles in is his inability to recognize certain coverages. Cover 1 is the coverage that he seems to struggle with the most. He has a hard time adjusting, and finding open receivers if he cannot get out of the pocket against this particular coverage.

Wilson is does not manage the game at the LOS very well. He's not great at directing traffic and changing plays based on the situation. This is a skill-set that every good Quarterback should have. Towards the end of the year he was thrust into this roll more than usual, but still demonstrated that this is not a strength in his game. This goes back to recognizing what strategy a defense is trying to employ against him. Both of these are related, this is not an area that he excels in.

Wilson struggles over the middle of the field. This may be due to his stature, but I'm more of the opinion that it is due to his playing style. Even when Wilson can step up into the pocket he does not. He prefers to stay deep in the pocket even when he has one, and bail when pass rushers start closing on him. This approach is hit and miss. It can create opportunities down the field, but it also creates many missed opportunities as well. Wilson's pocket management skills are quite possibly the weakest part of his game. If he can master pocket management it will bring his passing game to a different level.

Wilson really struggles with structure, specifically timing routes. The entire offense is geared towards this fact, it's designed to let him ad lib until a receiver pops open. This style creates big plays, but on the other hand it also creates stalled drives. Wilson especially seems to struggle with slant routes, this is not just the last play of the super bowl coloring my view either. His ball placement and timing is off on slants, I contend this is usually where we turn the ball over. He just isn't that great at short timing routes such as the slant.

Essentially, the point I'm trying to drive home is he relies too much on his ability to improvise, and make things happen outside the pocket. This is both a good, and bad thing for Wilson. Wilson will never take the next step as a QB unless he corrects some of the points I mentioned above. He can get away with not being that great at those thing because of his unique talent. He needs to become more refined in the passing department, if he can do that, and balance structure with his magical state of chaos then he can make Manning, and Brady an afterthought in the modern NFL. Right now he is not there yet, and he is lacking in very important these fundamentals.

This is an excellent write up and I agree with nearly every word.

A couple things though. While I agree on your eval of his slant passes I do question about using the middle of the field for a couple reasons. First off he has never had an elite receiving corp or TE who could make this as easy as most of the so called elite QB's. Even with Baldwin who I believe is an excellent slot receiver, he (Baldwin) has had to compete with opponents best CB's and often double coverage. With Jimmy here I think that changes and B, I believe Pete has much to do with staying away from the middle of the field where the chance of Int's increases significantly. So factoring that in I would probably give him an incomplete on the middle of the field thing at least until after next year.

Pocket presence and ability is spot on but it gets a little worse when you figure our O-line struggles are very much contributed to Wilson's actions. Above someone mentioned if Rogers or Brady were here they would struggle behind our line also but I doubt that is true. A true pocket passer of that caliber makes his line better. They would definitely struggle with the receiving corp Wilson had last year though. How do you fix this problem is the real question. I believe the way you fix it is getting the ball out faster but to do so you need to have a receiving corp that is capable of getting open and reliable at catching balls in that situation unlike the NFCC game where Kearse was popping everything up in the air for easy Int's. It's the chicken and the egg scenario. The Line will improve as Wilson gets better at using the pocket and Wilson will be better in the pocket as the line improves. In the mean time it will look awkward.

I do agree Wilson struggles to pick up the blitz and especially the delayed blitz. As well as reading defenses which is part of this but that is an area that should improve if things calm down in the passing game and become more structured.

Overall though I agree with your assessment.

 

[aawolf]

But look at the guy above Wilson: Rivers. Can we honestly say Wilson is a better QB ? I think the total package with his legs is better than Rivers, but Rivers is a better QB. He's more accurate, he reads the field better and more quickly, and he has a better pocket presence.

I think Wilson has a few advantages over Rivers:

(1) Wins. Rivers has never led his team to a Super Bowl.

(2) Turnovers. Rivers is coming off an 18-INT season.

(3) QB rating. Wilson's career rating of 98.6 is better than Rivers' 95.7.

(4) Running ability. Rivers is not much of a scrambler, especially compared to the league's best running QB.

But, Rivers started FOUR YEARS at NC State.

 

[aawolf]

This is about where I would rank Wilson. He is a hard QB to peg down due to his unique style. He does so many things well, yet he is sorely lacking in some fundamentals as a passer. He's more of a play maker than a field general, which is not a bad thing by any means. For these reasons I think ESPN was justified giving Wilson the 8th ranking.

Sorely lacking in what 'fundamentals,' pray tell. Good gawd.

I'll humour you and elaborate on that point. Wilson is imperfect as a passer, though because of his unique abilities, and ability to throw darts on the run he is able to compensate.

Wilson is severely lacking in a couple of areas that every top tier QB has mastered. These skills are fundamental pillars to playing QB in the NFL. The biggest area he's struggles in is his inability to recognize certain coverages. Cover 1 is the coverage that he seems to struggle with the most. He has a hard time adjusting, and finding open receivers if he cannot get out of the pocket against this particular coverage.

Wilson is does not manage the game at the LOS very well. He's not great at directing traffic and changing plays based on the situation. This is a skill-set that every good Quarterback should have. Towards the end of the year he was thrust into this roll more than usual, but still demonstrated that this is not a strength in his game. This goes back to recognizing what strategy a defense is trying to employ against him. Both of these are related, this is not an area that he excels in.

Wilson struggles over the middle of the field. This may be due to his stature, but I'm more of the opinion that it is due to his playing style. Even when Wilson can step up into the pocket he does not. He prefers to stay deep in the pocket even when he has one, and bail when pass rushers start closing on him. This approach is hit and miss. It can create opportunities down the field, but it also creates many missed opportunities as well. Wilson's pocket management skills are quite possibly the weakest part of his game. If he can master pocket management it will bring his passing game to a different level.

Wilson really struggles with structure, specifically timing routes. The entire offense is geared towards this fact, it's designed to let him ad lib until a receiver pops open. This style creates big plays, but on the other hand it also creates stalled drives. Wilson especially seems to struggle with slant routes, this is not just the last play of the super bowl coloring my view either. His ball placement and timing is off on slants, I contend this is usually where we turn the ball over. He just isn't that great at short timing routes such as the slant.

Essentially, the point I'm trying to drive home is he relies too much on his ability to improvise, and make things happen outside the pocket. This is both a good, and bad thing for Wilson. Wilson will never take the next step as a QB unless he corrects some of the points I mentioned above. He can get away with not being that great at those thing because of his unique talent. He needs to become more refined in the passing department, if he can do that, and balance structure with his magical state of chaos then he can make Manning, and Brady an afterthought in the modern NFL. Right now he is not there yet, and he is lacking in very important these fundamentals.

I get what you're saying. Wilson is not an elite pocket QB. But, he's capable of being one. How many of those "slant route" incompletions were a result of drops? He's been plagued by drops by the WRs throughout his career. When its 3rd down, and we have to throw, I've become accustomed to drops by the TEs and WRs and seeing the ball bounce off shoulder pads, fingertips, and helmets. When he's in rhythm, I think Wilson is just as accurate and aware as any QB. Also, as the article states, when the chips are down and we need points to win, Wilson is among the best.

 

[jdblack]

So then that means he should be good with accepting 8th best QB money, right?

No, because then the average rank of his contract after it is done would be more like 16.

 

[hawkfan68]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. Luck is very good but not first tier at this point. Just my 2 cents.

 

[lobohawk]

Luck is too high and Wilson could shuffle up a few spots, but it's fair enough. They have benefited from either a weak schedule or great supporting defense, but have still shown themselves as rare talent.

Both Luck and Wilson have some growing to do at presnap reads, etc. Basically you depend on experience to grow in this area, so they'll get better here. This is why players like Rivers, Romo, Ben can be viewed as possibly more deserving of high rankings. They've been playing at a generally high level for a long time and with the whole range of supporting cast (good, bad).

Russell and Luck are still defining what they bring so being in the second tier is fair. For a while they'll still be judged on potential (especially Luck), but that's ok cause these are all just opinions.

Tier 1
Rogers
Brady (as much due to the perfect match with coaching staff)

Tier 2 (no particular order)
Peyton (aging out of Tier 1)
Ben
Rivers
Brees
Russell
Romo
Luck

 

[HawkFan72]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. Luck is very good but not first tier at this point. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. They are trying too hard to make him the new face of the NFL elite QBs. He will likely get there with time, but he's not there yet.

 

[Popeyejones]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. .

I agree. They are trying too hard to make him the new face of the NFL elite QBs.

These rankings come from Sando having polled NFL coaches, GMs, and personnel evaluators.

If there's a conspiracy to make Luck appear better than he is, it's coming from opposing coaches, GMs, etc.

What's their motivation?

 

[hawknation2015]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. .

I agree. They are trying too hard to make him the new face of the NFL elite QBs.

These rankings come from Sando having polled NFL coaches, GMs, and personnel evaluators.

If there's a conspiracy to make Luck appear better than he is, it's coming from opposing coaches, GMs, etc.

What's their motivation?

They're buying into the hype. Luck has not played well in the playoffs, throws a lot of INTs, and is not as accurate as any of those other seven QBs on this list.

 

[lobohawk]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. .

I agree. They are trying too hard to make him the new face of the NFL elite QBs.

These rankings come from Sando having polled NFL coaches, GMs, and personnel evaluators.

If there's a conspiracy to make Luck appear better than he is, it's coming from opposing coaches, GMs, etc.

What's their motivation?

They are also susceptible to hype and as we have seen in the past, they can overstate players' skills or undervalue others. I also think they fall into traditional evaluation and are projecting future value against current value. Luck right now isn't better than Rivers, Romo, and Ben, though he may in the very near future.

 

[HawkFan72]

Having Andrew Luck in the first tier discredits the ESPN ranking. .

I agree. They are trying too hard to make him the new face of the NFL elite QBs.

These rankings come from Sando having polled NFL coaches, GMs, and personnel evaluators.

If there's a conspiracy to make Luck appear better than he is, it's coming from opposing coaches, GMs, etc.

What's their motivation?

They're buying into the hype. Luck has not played well in the playoffs, throws a lot of INTs, and is not as accurate as any of those other seven QBs on this list.

This exactly.

 

[joeshaney]

I agree that if you make Russell Wilson a pocket passer he is not as good.

I also believe that if you make Peyton Manning a scrambling quarterback he is not as good.

And lastly, if you can make Earl Thomas a defensive tackle he would not be quite as good, either.

:roll:

Sarcasm aside, I agree Wilson among the top of the tier 2 group. This logic though is just putrid.

 

[edogg23]

Seems pretty fair although I think Russ is better than Rivers. Put any of those 7 qbs on the Seahawks instead of Russ the last couple years and I would bet we would still have at least one SB championship to our name. A lot of those QBs are on the downslope of their career though so Russ will pass them due to age.

 

[mbaguy]

Complete text below, hypothetical arguments are silly IMO. Which is what a lot of the rating below is premised on

8. Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks

Average rating: 1.71 | Change in rating: +23.2%

2014 Rank: T-8

Last year, more than one-third of voters placed Wilson in the third tier, questioning whether he could carry a pass-oriented offense week after week, as the better quarterbacks have been able to do. Only one voter placed Wilson in the third tier this time, as other voters acknowledged the role Wilson played in the Seahawks reaching back-to-back Super Bowls. In total, 11 of 35 voters said Wilson was a 1, up from three of 26 voters one year ago.

"At the end of the day, the won-lost record of your quarterback and the leadership goes hand-in-hand," a former GM said. "He has been in the last two Super Bowls. You can say all you want about the defense, but the Bills had a good defense the last two years. What did it get them? Wilson has that late-game magic."

Why did one coordinator leave Wilson in the third tier?

"Because I think he needs Marshawn Lynch and the defense [to be great] to do what he has done," the coordinator replied. That same coordinator said his college scouting report on Wilson read like a report would read for a top-tier prospect, but he gave a lower grade overall based on concerns over Wilson's height. An offensive coach said "the bubble is going to burst" for Wilson if the day comes when the team needs him to throw the ball frequently.

"He is not a 1," a head coach said. "He cannot win the whole thing. Is that why they are not paying him? I think you could make an argument to put him down as a 3, but I would say he is a 2. The running back and the tight end can help him. If you can make the game one-dimensional for him where he has to be a total pocket passer, it gets tough. Green Bay had four interceptions on him [in the NFC Championship]."

Another head coach called Wilson a 1 in Seattle's current system, but a 2 in any other. A defensive coordinator who placed Wilson in the top tier said he thought Wilson could succeed as primarily a pocket passer. He called Wilson a winner and a player able to make every throw needed. He also thought throwing from the pocket consistently wasn't necessarily a requirement.

"They do not make him sit in the pocket and win games, but his combination of smarts, poise and athletic ability makes him a 2," a GM said. "I think he is a good 2. I do not see him taking over games from a throwing standpoint. He is in the right place because of the defense and run game, which plays to his strengths."

An offensive coordinator who has worked with traditional pocket passers placed Wilson in the top tier without reservation. Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Romo, Joe Flacco and both Mannings were also 1s on this coordinator's ballot.

"If they were throwing it like New Orleans, he'd have as many yards as Brees," this coordinator said. "He beats you doing the things he does. He is a 1, and he is up there with Aaron and Luck because of his uniqueness and all the s--- he can do."

 

[Rocket]

I hate to say it, but if you transplanted this team in New York, Wilson would easily be ranked in the top 5 and this team would be considered a dynasty. And all the things that Wilson is ridiculed for would be the same reasons these know-it-alls would glorify him for.
BTW-Exactly how do these guys rate a QB for his pre-snap reads? Are they so f'ing smart that they can read a QB's thought processes? And for a guy who is known for his hours of film room time and his brains, they gave him a 7?!
It's kind of hard to take this crap too seriously.

The location comment would be true if fan input was considered... but Sando didn't poll fans. He claims to have talked to coaches, GM's and personnel folk. I see no reason to believe he's lying. So there's something to it.

 

[DavidSeven]

I do think Luck is a little high, but you have to remember this a poll of GMs and coaches. While I think he still plays too recklessly, you cannot deny the fact that he has every "tool" that is desired in a Franchise QB. From a desirability standpoint, I can't begrudge any personnel guy who has Luck near the top of the list, even if I think he and Russ are actually a lot closer when you factor in intangibles and producing results.

I don't think you can really argue against any of these other guys. Sure, many of them are on the downslope, but as a reflection of TODAY, it seems pretty fair.