Everyone says how the Bengals O-line is worst than the Seaha

[Tokadub]

I'm rewatching that Bengals vs Kansas City game right now...

Their O-Line looks better than the Seahawks...

Is there some kind of conspiracy going on how the Bengals have the Worst O line? I think the Seahawks O line is worst?

Can anyone explain please?

Yes I understand we had a few weeks of run blocking.

 

[massari]

PFF gave the Bengals a slightly better pass block grade than the Seahawks for the season, and a slightly better run block grade as well.

From the sounds of it, not sure anyone can say either is better or worse than the other. They both suck.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021 ... e-rankings

 

[Tokadub]

PFF gave the Bengals a slightly better pass block grade than the Seahawks for the season, and a slightly better run block grade as well.

From the sounds of it, not sure anyone can say either is better or worse than the other. They both suck.

Wilson was under pressure close to 40% of his dropbacks

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021 ... e-rankings

Ok, thanks that's all I needed to hear. The Bengals have a better O-line (maybe or barely) than the Seahawks.

But the story will be how the Bengals O-line sucked if they lose...

Maybe the Seahawks management and coaches should work on our blatant O-line weakness.

I think the Bengals have a punchers chance, Stafford might blow it :stirthepot: :les: :irishdrinkers:

 

[nutluck]

People say it because Burrows was the most sacked QB in the league. I have not checked the numbers myself so I don't know if it is true but I have repeatedly heard that.

 

[Yxes1122]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

 

[seabowl]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

100%. Aaron Rodgers had a terrible OL, almost all backups at one point but he gets rid of the ball so quick that the pass rush on him was minimal. Russ hold on too long looking for the big play. Back in the 80's Marino was hardly ever sacked as he too got it out quick. If Russ just took what they gave he would be happier and healthier qb.

 

[massari]

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

Dak Prescott has one of the top OLs in the league....

 

[toffee]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

so you are hinting Burrow is more OL friendly than our Russ? you do know that Russ can do no wrong here, don't yo?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He does plenty wrong. Just not as much as some say. He can be a lot better, period. And will be in 2022.
And healthy.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It sure looks like Burrow holds the ball longer than Wilson, so not sure what the 'OL friendly thing' is.

Burrow seems to be also sacked more, behind a better line.

Last year, weren't we last in time to pressure? Isn't that essentially independent of the QB but defines when the OL blocking breaks down?

Isn't time to pressure also an issue in addressing the consistency of the QB because the QB has to alter his internal clock?

 

[John63]

So its already been posted once so you can find the post with the links

Seattle had an avg time to throw/pressure of 2.4 seconds
Bengals had an avg time to throw/pressure of 2.6

What this means is given an avg oline should be able to give their QB 2.5 seconds it shows Seattle is under avg and Bengals over avg. Meaning Bengals oline is better.

Things that can impact the time to throw or pressure

Wr
Te
RBs
oline
The play
the scheme
down and distance
the QB

QB is only one factor of many.

PFF had the Bengals oline ranked 20th
Seahawks ranked 25th
5 spots is bigger than you think

 

[John63]

It sure looks like Burrow holds the ball longer than Wilson, so not sure what the 'OL friendly thing' is.

Burrow seems to be also sacked more, behind a better line.

Last year, weren't we last in time to pressure? Isn't that essentially independent of the QB but defines when the OL blocking breaks down?

Isn't time to pressure also an issue in addressing the consistency of the QB because the QB has to alter his internal clock?

We were not last in time to pressure but were bottom 5. Cincy was middle of the pack.

 

[John63]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

as I posted this is not totally true

Seahawks' time to throw or pressure was 2.4 an avg oline should hold 2.5 so our is underperforming.

 

[Yxes1122]

It sure looks like Burrow holds the ball longer than Wilson, so not sure what the 'OL friendly thing' is.

Burrow seems to be also sacked more, behind a better line.

Last year, weren't we last in time to pressure? Isn't that essentially independent of the QB but defines when the OL blocking breaks down?

Isn't time to pressure also an issue in addressing the consistency of the QB because the QB has to alter his internal clock?

How is Time to Pressure judged when the QB fails a quick game concept?

I'll pull up the Arizona fumble again. That's instant pressure off the right side by design. And DK has the defender out leveraged with a clear throwing lane between Lewis and Brown. Russ has time throw that and beat the pressure. Instead he tries to spin out and gets strip sacked.

And this is true of Russ even in success. He's one of the best outside of structure players of all time. But there's a bunch of examples of Russell Wilson missing quick game concepts. If you're Pete Carroll, you live with this because Russell might miss an open underneath route, break the play, and hit DK down the field.

But if you're an OL, executing a quick game concept, and you do it by design, but Russell breaks the play, it's going to show up as a black mark on your grade sheet. And you've seen Duane Brown clearly upset after Russ breaks the protection.

Maybe I misspoke about just throwing quicker. It's that Burrow is a QB that pretty much exclusively plays in structure. Russell is not. Again, that doesn't mean Russell Wilson is worse than Burrow. It's just different styles of QB. You could go back and say the same thing about Brett Farve. You live with the chaos because it benefits you, but it's going to come at the detriment of other things.

And that's what I mean by QB play impacts OL execution.

Edit: I'm not trying to enter the Russell Wilson debate. I contend that he is an elite QB with a very unique skillset. And like all QBs, when you reach the elite level, the tiniest differences in play styles make a difference. Go back and watch Russell Wilson at NC State and you see many of the same quirks to his game as you do in the NFL. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, all have pros and cons to their game. There is not a perfect QB.

Russell Wilson will regularly break structure because he's great at it. But if you are going to break structure, it is going to show up as negatives when the metrics that are charting it--are meant to chart in structure.

 

[John63]

It sure looks like Burrow holds the ball longer than Wilson, so not sure what the 'OL friendly thing' is.

Burrow seems to be also sacked more, behind a better line.

Last year, weren't we last in time to pressure? Isn't that essentially independent of the QB but defines when the OL blocking breaks down?

Isn't time to pressure also an issue in addressing the consistency of the QB because the QB has to alter his internal clock?

How is Time to Pressure judged when the QB fails a quick game concept?

I'll pull up the Arizona fumble again. That's instant pressure off the right side by design. And DK has the defender out leveraged with a clear throwing lane between Lewis and Brown. Russ has time throw that and beat the pressure. Instead he tries to spin out and gets strip sacked.

And this is true of Russ even in success. He's one of the best outside of structure players of all time. But there's a bunch of examples of Russell Wilson missing quick game concepts. If you're Pete Carroll, you live with this because Russell might miss an open underneath route, break the play, and hit DK down the field.

But if you're an OL, executing a quick game concept, and you do it by design, but Russell breaks the play, it's going to show up as a black mark on your grade sheet. And you've seen Duane Brown clearly upset after Russ breaks the protection.

Maybe I misspoke about just throwing quicker. It's that Burrow is a QB that pretty much exclusively plays in structure. Russell is not. Again, that doesn't mean Russell Wilson is worse than Burrow. It's just different styles of QB. You could go back and say the same thing about Brett Farve. You live with the chaos because it benefits you, but it's going to come at the detriment of other things.

And that's what I mean by QB play impacts OL execution.

Edit: I'm not trying to enter the Russell Wilson debate. I contend that he is an elite QB with a very unique skillset. And like all QBs, when you reach the elite level, the tiniest differences in play styles make a difference. Go back and watch Russell Wilson at NC State and you see many of the same quirks to his game as you do in the NFL. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, all have pros and cons to their game. There is not a perfect QB.

Russell Wilson will regularly break structure because he's great at it. But if you are going to break structure, it is going to show up as negatives when the metrics that are charting it--are meant to chart in structure.

Let me make this easy

time to throw or pressure

An avg oline should be able to hold for 2.5 seconds

If they do their job and the Qb holds it that time to pressure or throw will be higher than the 2.5 Wilson is lower at 2.4


The breaking structure is irrelevant for this. Also, the question is why is he breaking structure is it pressure? the stats sure do make it seem so.

 

[scutterhawk]

100%. Aaron Rodgers had a terrible OL, almost all backups at one point but he gets rid of the ball so quick that the pass rush on him was minimal. Russ hold on too long looking for the big play. Back in the 80's Marino was hardly ever sacked as he too got it out quick. If Russ just took what they gave he would be happier and healthier qb.

^^^THIS^^^
And the proof is in how Rodgers held onto the ball for just a split second too long in that last playoff game, & why they lost that game to the 49rs.
Rodgers was playing too much for his Legacy in that game, and it was that hesitancy that screwed him up.
Timing is everything.
Mahomes hung onto the ball for too long, running to buy time in the game he played against the Bengals...Reminiscent to some of RW 's play.

 

[John63]

100%. Aaron Rodgers had a terrible OL, almost all backups at one point but he gets rid of the ball so quick that the pass rush on him was minimal. Russ hold on too long looking for the big play. Back in the 80's Marino was hardly ever sacked as he too got it out quick. If Russ just took what they gave he would be happier and healthier qb.

^^^THIS^^^
And the proof is in how Rodgers held onto the ball for just a split second too long in that last playoff game, & why they lost that game to the 49rs.
Rodgers was playing too much for his Legacy in that game, and it was that hesitancy that screwed him up.
Timing is everything.
Mahomes hung onto the ball for too long, running to buy time in the game he played against the Bengals...Reminiscent to some of RW 's play.

and yet I just showed proof to the contrary. The point is a Qb just holding the ball is one thing. A QB holding it because he has pressure in under 2.5 seconds is another.

Our Time to throw or pressure was 2.4 that is the problem. An Avv oline should hold for 2.5

 

[Elemas]

Bengals line is better but, since they are in the spotlight, you’re going to hear about how bad it is.

Russ haters will disagree all day.

 

[AgentDib]

I don't think Burrow is better than Russ but he is much cheaper. That allows the rest of his team to be better around him, and that advantage will go away in three seasons. Then he'll be playing on hard mode like Russ does, and like Mahomes will be doing starting next year. I don't begrudge any NFL players getting as much money as they can but the cost of getting a huge payday is that your team has less money to spend on other players.

An avg oline should be able to hold for 2.5 seconds

I think you're missing Yxes's point here. 2.5 seconds is fine as an average number that includes a wide variety of plays. Some of those are quick throws where the OL needs to block for 0.0 seconds and some of them are downfield shots that the OL needs to block for 4-5 seconds on.

The play being mentioned is the one where Chandler Jones had a free lane to the QB by design and the ball needed to come out immediately, not after 2.5 seconds. Maybe Russ was fooled by the look and assumed Jones would be dropping back or maybe something else threw him off. But that's an example of a nearly immediate pressure that was not the OL's fault, even though it happened in one second.

 

[toffee]

When it comes to OL, dot net wisdom dictated ours is always the worst in the league

When it comes to QB, dot net wisdom dictated ours is always the best in the league.

When stats do not support the above, it's because OL prevents our QB to become all he could be.

Got it?

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