Everyone says how the Bengals O-line is worst than the Seaha

[Throwdown]

Firing a drafted, playing NFL player for being "below average" is still firing someone with tremendous talent. And finding a replacement may be extremely difficult. If RW has a stat that is below average then, he should be fired.

Not necessarily, Russ is exceptional, maybe the best at some things. But to deny he needs some help to help the team be successful is ridiculous and irresponsible.

I really hope the coaching staff doesn’t subscribe to that kind of thinking anymore or else we’re gonna be garbage again.

 

[John63]

Well if they want a top 5 line they won’t be able to spend on DK and Diggs. Unless everyone is willing to take less. Which I don’t blame them for not. Signing FA lineman might work but who knows. And drafting. Well that’s a crap shoot.

I think they should break the bank and sign every top FA lineman avail and hope the cap goes up a lot to afford anyone else.


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Or you commit to a run game and rebuild the RB room to make things easier for Russ to work his magic without leaving the defense out to dry cuz the QB has always struggled on 3rd downs and having him throw 40x a game is going to put you behind the sticks more times than he’s gonna be on schedule.

Again this is false our Qb has not always struggled don 3rd down as has been shown already in multiple threads in this forum. He was at or above league avg in complete % and ypa on 3r down in 8 of his 10 seasons.

What about CONVERTING them? You can complete passes til your hearts desire but how about converting the 3rd down on a consistent basis?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1482838590216450051[/tweet]

Russ is 30th on that list, he has a 3rd down problem

He is avg over 7 ypa on 3rd down. Perhaps the issue is 3rd and long. Also that stats still does not say it's a Wilson thing. Is it Wilson's fault if a WR runs the route short? It's not his fault if the only one open is short? Is it his fault if the play called for routes that relies on YAC but we got none. For example, it has been posted many times we are in the top 5 in 3rd and long.


In fact, that very chart you showed says we avg 7.8 yards to go on 3r/4th down for a 1st. which is 2nd worst in the league. It also shows that we should avg 28% first downs based on yards needed and Wilson avg 35% which is more than the avg. So there you go. Wilson is overperforming based on the distance needed for a 1st down

https://bit.ly/34HQbSW

 

[John63]

The whole not having ad high a pressure rate does not mean it is a direct problem.of Wilson's. The play call and design can impact that. The wrs can impact that etc.

Also it's irrelevant if the avg oline is supposed to hold up for 2.5 and Wilson is getting g pressured in 2.4 that means the oline is not doing its job. I.am.prwtty sure if you were doing your job below avg you would be fired.

You think companies fire employees who do their job extremely close to "average," as defined by a single metric that you keep spamming because you think it proves something that it doesn't?

What a fascinatingly inaccurate, borderline insane worldview.

again avg 2.5 we are 2.4 below avg and if you don't think companies don't fire people when they can not perform even at an avg level then you don't get much. You are right though you do have a fascinatingly inaccurate, borderline insane worldview.

These posts of yours aren't based in reality. They are dissociative nightmares that strive solely to reinforce a persecution complex centered around a football player.

No one gets fired for being slightly below average, and no sane person thinks an average of about .1 seconds MAX ruins the performance of a supposedly transcendental talent at quarterback.

If he were as good as Burrow, maybe he'd find a way. Maybe he'd convert some third downs while he's at it.

On top of this, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "average." Unemployment is like, what? 7%? You think 93% of individuals are average or better at their jobs? That's not how numbers work. Thats not how reality works.

This is elementary logic. An absolutely infinitesimal amount of critical thinking is needed to see just how flawed your premise is here, yet you continue to dig your heels in. It's degrading to everyone trying to read the other posts in the thread, honestly.

elementary if you're supposed to hold for 2.5 and you only hold for 2.4 you are not ding your job period!

 

[Maelstrom787]

You think companies fire employees who do their job extremely close to "average," as defined by a single metric that you keep spamming because you think it proves something that it doesn't?

What a fascinatingly inaccurate, borderline insane worldview.

again avg 2.5 we are 2.4 below avg and if you don't think companies don't fire people when they can not perform even at an avg level then you don't get much. You are right though you do have a fascinatingly inaccurate, borderline insane worldview.

These posts of yours aren't based in reality. They are dissociative nightmares that strive solely to reinforce a persecution complex centered around a football player.

No one gets fired for being slightly below average, and no sane person thinks an average of about .1 seconds MAX ruins the performance of a supposedly transcendental talent at quarterback.

If he were as good as Burrow, maybe he'd find a way. Maybe he'd convert some third downs while he's at it.

On top of this, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "average." Unemployment is like, what? 7%? You think 93% of individuals are average or better at their jobs? That's not how numbers work. Thats not how reality works.

This is elementary logic. An absolutely infinitesimal amount of critical thinking is needed to see just how flawed your premise is here, yet you continue to dig your heels in. It's degrading to everyone trying to read the other posts in the thread, honestly.

elementary if you're supposed to hold for 2.5 and you only hold for 2.4 you are not ding your job period!

Russ being an absolute dogshit garbage fire on third down indicates he isn't "ding" his job, period! You agree, surely.

 

[John63]

Firing a drafted, playing NFL player for being "below average" is still firing someone with tremendous talent. And finding a replacement may be extremely difficult. If RW has a stat that is below average then, he should be fired.

Not necessarily, Russ is exceptional, maybe the best at some things. But to deny he needs some help to help the team be successful is ridiculous and irresponsible.

I really hope the coaching staff doesn’t subscribe to that kind of thinking anymore or else we’re gonna be garbage again.

No one said firing any player the point was everyone says the problem with the oline is Wilson I showed clear-cut irrefutable facts showing otherwise. Some here tried to twist it or ignore it so I tried to lay it out for them in child speak. again some here have chosen to ignore the point and blow it out of context again. So I will try one more time.

If an oline is supposed to hold for 2.5 seconds and only holds for 2.4 they are not doing their job period.

If you work for a garbage collection service and you are supposed to service 200 houses a day and yet you constantly only do 190 your job will be in jeopardy because you are not maintaining the standard.

Pretty simple. Now the question is why can't they even be avg?

Well, that could be the scheme, the play calls, the line calls, the oline players etc. but not the QB

Now if the oline was 2.5 or higher then the list shifts to, Scheme, play calls, line calls, WRs, RBs, TEs, and QB but not the oline.

 

[John63]

again avg 2.5 we are 2.4 below avg and if you don't think companies don't fire people when they can not perform even at an avg level then you don't get much. You are right though you do have a fascinatingly inaccurate, borderline insane worldview.

These posts of yours aren't based in reality. They are dissociative nightmares that strive solely to reinforce a persecution complex centered around a football player.

No one gets fired for being slightly below average, and no sane person thinks an average of about .1 seconds MAX ruins the performance of a supposedly transcendental talent at quarterback.

If he were as good as Burrow, maybe he'd find a way. Maybe he'd convert some third downs while he's at it.

On top of this, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "average." Unemployment is like, what? 7%? You think 93% of individuals are average or better at their jobs? That's not how numbers work. Thats not how reality works.

This is elementary logic. An absolutely infinitesimal amount of critical thinking is needed to see just how flawed your premise is here, yet you continue to dig your heels in. It's degrading to everyone trying to read the other posts in the thread, honestly.

elementary if you're supposed to hold for 2.5 and you only hold for 2.4 you are not ding your job period!

Russ being an absolute $h!t garbage fire on third down indicates he isn't "ding" his job, period! You agree, surely.

again child speaks as you saw we are the 2nd worse on 3rd down as far as distance to first. Wilson is above the mark of getting the first based on that long-distance so he is far from garbage. But keep trying please ethe more you say false hoods the easier it is to find FACTS to show you wrong.

 

[Maelstrom787]

These posts of yours aren't based in reality. They are dissociative nightmares that strive solely to reinforce a persecution complex centered around a football player.

No one gets fired for being slightly below average, and no sane person thinks an average of about .1 seconds MAX ruins the performance of a supposedly transcendental talent at quarterback.

If he were as good as Burrow, maybe he'd find a way. Maybe he'd convert some third downs while he's at it.

On top of this, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "average." Unemployment is like, what? 7%? You think 93% of individuals are average or better at their jobs? That's not how numbers work. Thats not how reality works.

This is elementary logic. An absolutely infinitesimal amount of critical thinking is needed to see just how flawed your premise is here, yet you continue to dig your heels in. It's degrading to everyone trying to read the other posts in the thread, honestly.

elementary if you're supposed to hold for 2.5 and you only hold for 2.4 you are not ding your job period!

Russ being an absolute $h!t garbage fire on third down indicates he isn't "ding" his job, period! You agree, surely.

again child speaks as you saw we are the 2nd worse on 3rd down as far as distance to first. Wilson is above the mark of getting the first based on that long-distance so he is far from garbage. But keep trying please ethe more you say false hoods the easier it is to find FACTS to show you wrong.

Interesting to call someone a child in a post that has all of the grammatical accuracy of a third grade essay.

Anyway, please, feel free to cherry pick your single stat to draw a concrete conclusion as if that's sane, logical, or defensible in any way. The ones watching the games can see. 28th in completion percentage on 3rd down, but yeah, SOOO above the mark and certainly not partially at fault for PUTTING them so far off schedule to begin with.

You think third and longs absolve him? Are you joking? They indict him!

 

[toffee]

elementary if you're supposed to hold for 2.5 and you only hold for 2.4 you are not ding your job period!

Russ being an absolute $h!t garbage fire on third down indicates he isn't "ding" his job, period! You agree, surely.

again child speaks as you saw we are the 2nd worse on 3rd down as far as distance to first. Wilson is above the mark of getting the first based on that long-distance so he is far from garbage. But keep trying please ethe more you say false hoods the easier it is to find FACTS to show you wrong.

Interesting to call someone a child in a post that has all of the grammatical accuracy of a third grade essay.

Anyway, please, feel free to cherry pick your single stat to draw a concrete conclusion as if that's sane, logical, or defensible in any way. The ones watching the games can see. 28th in completion percentage on 3rd down, but yeah, SOOO above the mark and certainly not partially at fault for PUTTING them so far off schedule to begin with.

You think third and longs absolve him? Are you joking? They indict him!

Why do you debate with John63? he is the man with direct access to sideline conversation between HC and QB? The man who claimed that Wilson only has 2.4 sec when Rodgers, Brady and Big Ben had seconds less?

Why are you debating with John?

 

[olyfan63]

I don't think Burrow is better than Russ but he is much cheaper. That allows the rest of his team to be better around him, and that advantage will go away in three seasons. Then he'll be playing on hard mode like Russ does, and like Mahomes will be doing starting next year. I don't begrudge any NFL players getting as much money as they can but the cost of getting a huge payday is that your team has less money to spend on other players.

Current version of Joe Burrow is already significantly better than the current version of Russell Wilson. Burrow reads defenses and throws on time and accurately to whichever receiver is open vs that defense. Wilson runs around 5 seconds and then either gets sacked or finds Tyler. Russell was *awful* on 3rd downs this year.

For Wilson to succeed, Waldron had to figure out how to get teams out of coverages that Russell struggles against, like the 2-High that's been Russell's kryptonite. Against the Bears, the late-season emergency of Rashaad Penny, along with Jake Curhan and the OL, gave Waldron the weapons to do it. It worked. Then Wilson takes a bonehead sack, Myers misses a FG, and Chicago drives down the field and wins it on a TD and 2 point conversion.

What was Russell, like 0-for-6 in 4th quarter potential game-tying or game-winning drives this season?
Burrow went 2-for-2 against Tennessee and KC in the playoffs, divisional round and AFCCG. Sadly, Burrow was only 2 for 3 in the playoffs overall, thanks to Aaron Donald. Jamarr Chase has beaten Ramsey for a TD if Burrow has one more second to throw, and Bengals win.

Wilson with the read-option run threat and Marshawn and that elite LOB defense, Russell on his rookie contract, cheap but road-grader run game OL that's crap at pass-pro, that was the 2013-2014 Seahawks formula for success. The Bengals' success this year was due to an approximation of that model, but mostly to Joe Burrow, AND to Burrow being on a cheap rookie contract that let Cincy pay enough other talent to be competitive.

When the Bengals have to pay Burrow and Chase? fuhgeddaboudit. No $$ to pay D. Bengals will be lucky to make playoffs.

2nd Year Burrow > 2013 2nd Year Wilson even with Wilson R-O threat and Wilson mobility
Burrow leadership > 2013 Wilson leadership (but it's close)
2013 Lynch > Mixon (but it's surprisingly close);
2013 LOB > Cincy D;
2022 Cincy OL > 2013 Hawks OL--remember Bowie and Bailey? Russell running for his life vs Rams and Robert Quinn?

On topic, I'd have to say the Bengals OL is slightly *worse* than the Seahawks OL, but it's close, nearly a draw, and whichever one has more healthy starters available is better on any given day. Burrow throws the ball on time much more than Wilson, which helps his OL.

Bengals O-Line whiffed on Aaron Donald on that final 4th down play despite *trying* to double-team him. Ballgame. Championship. For Rams.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Against the Bears, the late-season emergency of Rashaad Penny, along with Jake Curhan and the OL, gave Waldron the weapons to do it. It worked. Then Wilson takes a bonehead sack, Myers misses a FG, and Chicago drives down the field and wins it on a TD and 2 point conversion.

Lol. Yeah the missed FG and the defenses inability to stop anything is all Wilsons fault.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, because a 39 yard field goal is SOOOO hard to make. He's the one who got them down there. But now you can add missed field goals to the things are his fault. It was a dumb sack to take, but it's somehow HIS fault that Myers sucks? And his fault that the defense couldn't stop a cold against a crap team? FFS.......

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah, because a 39 yard field goal is SOOOO hard to make. He's the one who got them down there. But now you can add missed field goals to the things are his fault. It was a dumb sack to take, but it's somehow HIS fault that Myers sucks? And his fault that the defense couldn't stop a cold against a crap team? FFS.......

Exactly

 

[John63]

Yeah, because a 39 yard field goal is SOOOO hard to make. He's the one who got them down there. But now you can add missed field goals to the things are his fault. It was a dumb sack to take, but it's somehow HIS fault that Myers sucks? And his fault that the defense couldn't stop a cold against a crap team? FFS.......

THIS^^^ But you forgot PCs not knowing the difference between a phone and the red flag is also his fault.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh. Go Hawks

 

[olyfan63]

Against the Bears, the late-season emergency of Rashaad Penny, along with Jake Curhan and the OL, gave Waldron the weapons to do it. It worked. Then Wilson takes a bonehead sack, Myers misses a FG, and Chicago drives down the field and wins it on a TD and 2 point conversion.

Lol. Yeah the missed FG and the defenses inability to stop anything is all Wilsons fault.

Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant situational football for Wilson to pass up an EZ 5 yard completion with RAC potential for a 1st down to bail out of pocket and take a 15 yard sack for a net loss of 20 yards, to make the FG *attempt* to make it a 2-score game that much longer in cold windy crappy conditions.

Your hero worship of Wilson knows no bounds. Russell singlehandly cost the team that game on that bonehead play. Wilson's desire to play hero-ball outstripped all common sense and situational awareness. Waldron had a great game plan, and everybody executed their part well, Penny, OL, everyone except Wilson.

So while you're at it, are you advising Wilson should be paid an extra bonus, on top of his $35M or whatever for going 0-for-6 in 4th quarter game-winning drive opportunities during 2021? Or was it 0-for-5? The 0-fers just kind of blend together after a while. Yup, that's *elite* QB play right there, 0-for-the-season on what he's paid the big bucks to do.

 

[John63]

Against the Bears, the late-season emergency of Rashaad Penny, along with Jake Curhan and the OL, gave Waldron the weapons to do it. It worked. Then Wilson takes a bonehead sack, Myers misses a FG, and Chicago drives down the field and wins it on a TD and 2 point conversion.

Lol. Yeah the missed FG and the defenses inability to stop anything is all Wilsons fault.

Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant situational football for Wilson to pass up an EZ 5 yard completion with RAC potential for a 1st down to bail out of pocket and take a 15 yard sack for a net loss of 20 yards, to make the FG *attempt* to make it a 2-score game that much longer in cold windy crappy conditions.

Your hero worship of Wilson knows no bounds. Russell singlehandly cost the team that game on that bonehead play. Wilson's desire to play hero-ball outstripped all common sense and situational awareness. Waldron had a great game plan, and everybody executed their part well, Penny, OL, everyone except Wilson.

So while you're at it, are you advising Wilson should be paid an extra bonus, on top of his $35M or whatever for going 0-for-6 in 4th quarter game-winning drive opportunities during 2021? Or was it 0-for-5? The 0-fers just kind of blend together after a while. Yup, that's *elite* QB play right there, 0-for-the-season on what he's paid the big bucks to do.

LOL yeah what 4 yar completion there was none even the announcers said it. Let's forget the defense could not hold a 7 point lead with under 4 minutes to go or the 2 points conversion. Or the holding penalties, false start making it harder, Oh and by the way, the sack happened when we had a 7 point lead.

So basically forget the defense giving up the lead with under 2 minutes
forget the holding and false start
Forget the missed FG
the only thing in your mind that matters is a sack, that happened when we still had the lead.

Fyi no one was open at all they were all covered. I just rewachted

Again we had a 7 point lead with under 4 minutes, but you want to blame Wilson because the defense could not stop the other team not just from scoring but also a 2 point conversion. either stop we win. and they both happened way after the sack.

 

[WarHawks]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

Excellent post. Agree 100%

 

[toffee]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

Excellent post. Agree 100%

Our OL provided Wilson with above average pocket time, sure was more than Big Ben, Rodgers, and Brady. But Wilson suffered the highest QB pressure. Easy translation, our QB didn't rid the ball like the Brady bunch. Some said Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady will suffer playing with our OL, may be, but may be our OL could also rank higher protecting the Brady bunch.

 

[John63]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

Excellent post. Agree 100%

Our OL provided Wilson with above average pocket time, sure was more than Big Ben, Rodgers, and Brady. But Wilson suffered the highest QB pressure. Easy translation, our QB didn't rid the ball like the Brady bunch. Some said Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady will suffer playing with our OL, may be, but may be our OL could also rank higher protecting the Brady bunch.

Except they did not provide above avg pocket them as has been shown. The provided 2.4 seconds that is below an avg oline.

 

[toffee]

Two words. QB play.

Burrow is a better quick game QB than Wilson. Wilson’s sack fumble against the Cards was his failure in quick game execution.

The QB has a lot to do with the performance of the OL, and when your QB tends to see the field deep to short, your OL is going to be impacted.

This is not to say Joe Burrow is better than Wilson. I’m not trying to wade into those waters. But the style in which they play is different. Burrow is on the Brady-Manning-Ryan spectrum of QBs and he helps mitigate deficiencies on the OL with quick execution. Wilson’s improvisational style and favoring of shot plays negatively impacts the OL.

Pass blocking (or even run blocking) is not a “who has the best bodies” on the line. There’s a lot of chemistry between the 5 OL, the QB, and even the RB that makes it work.

Excellent post. Agree 100%

Our OL provided Wilson with above average pocket time, sure was more than Big Ben, Rodgers, and Brady. But Wilson suffered the highest QB pressure. Easy translation, our QB didn't rid the ball like the Brady bunch. Some said Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady will suffer playing with our OL, may be, but may be our OL could also rank higher protecting the Brady bunch.

Except they did not provide above avg pocket them as has been shown. The provided 2.4 seconds that is below an avg oline.

Big Ben had 2.1 sec
Brady and Rodgers but less than 2.4

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