Fire Bevell

[justafan]

What plays, exactly, would be immediately successful behind this o-line?

Plays with designed hot routes, checkdowns, dumpoffs. That sort of thing.

Far too many plays are without those. Instead the play design sends four or five guys downfield and expects the line to block for three seconds when Bevell knows they can't. He's exacerbating the problem.

And defenses know it. They're blitzing all day. They're not afraid of Wilson beating the blitz because they know Bevell isn't giving him the options to do it. And after today, nobody will be afraid of the running game either.

Next week vs. Cincy, pay special attention to how often they send a fifth guy. Usually our OL holds up just fine when they send only four. Send in a fifth and I can almost guarantee what the play will look like.

THIS......listen, the offensive line IS A PROBLEM....but an adequate Offensive Coordinator is going to adjust to the line problems and put their offense in a position to succeed with the tools that are available. And Bevell doesn't seem make those adjustments

This x100. Everyone knows the OL is an issue. By now, Pete and Bevell should know Wilson's strength, etc. We know what the WRs are. And so on......

It's up to the coaching staff to find a way to maximize the strengths and hide the weaknesses. Unfortunately, the Offense doesn't seem to do this very well. Keeps calling plays that the OL can't handle.

Xs and Os only go so far.You still win with blocking and tackling.It has always been that way and it always will be.

 

[Optimus25]

The 3 step drop would be nice,,,, BUT our qb is so damn short he can't see the middle of the field on said 3 step drop.

So he needs to start out in the gun and then drop......

hmmm. after watching so many Jimmy highlights this offseason, i coulda swore drew brees had no problem finding Jimmy on quick hitters. brees is what??? 6'5" or something like? oh wait, no. not even close.

And wasn't NO's offensive line so bad they just traded away one of the single greatest weapons they've EVER had for line help?

so short quarterback in brees plus quick throwing to graham plus terrible offensive line = new orleans powerful offense

hmmm. interesting.

 

[marko358]

The 3 step drop would be nice,,,, BUT our qb is so damn short he can't see the middle of the field on said 3 step drop.

So he needs to start out in the gun and then drop......

hmmm. after watching so many Jimmy highlights this offseason, i coulda swore drew brees had no problem finding Jimmy on quick hitters. brees is what??? 6'5" or something like?

And wasn't NO's offensive line so bad they just traded away one of the single greatest weapons they've EVER had for line help?

so short quarterback plus quick throwing to graham plus terrible offensive line = new orleans powerful offense

hmmm. interesting.

He is listed at 6' even.

 

[Optimus25]

The 3 step drop would be nice,,,, BUT our qb is so damn short he can't see the middle of the field on said 3 step drop.

So he needs to start out in the gun and then drop......

hmmm. after watching so many Jimmy highlights this offseason, i coulda swore drew brees had no problem finding Jimmy on quick hitters. brees is what??? 6'5" or something like?

And wasn't NO's offensive line so bad they just traded away one of the single greatest weapons they've EVER had for line help?

so short quarterback plus quick throwing to graham plus terrible offensive line = new orleans powerful offense

hmmm. interesting.

He is listed at 6' even.

sorry for the confusing sarcasm. i edited to make it more clear.

 

[lobohawk]

"Turning trash into diamonds" is possible.

The problem is the process has costs.

And the upside requires patience, which is a problem if you have contracts that expire.

Look at Sweezy. Sweezy can be a very good if not dominant guard because of his athletic ability, aggression and physicality. But being green, he is going to make mistakes. That isn't a problem when you have other decent OL around you because they compensate for that and the gains offset the mistakes. Eventually you make less and then you start producing net positive benefits.

But what happens when 1/2 the line is reclamation? Assume you make 6-8 big mistakes in a game, that probably translates into 2-3 negative plays. You can live with that. But with 4 players doing the same thing? Suddenly we are at 30+ mistakes and because of the snowball effect, the negative plays turn from 2-3 for every 6-8 mistakes to 3-4 (or 4-5!). Now we are looking at 15+ bad plays, which is enough to account for drive killing plays (since by % that means at least 30% of those are 3rd downs right?) So you lose at least 4 drives to this.

Worse, because the players start worrying about the mistakes, they start dialing back - which removes the very aggression + physicality you have them there for in the first place.

Clearly Bevell is stuck with what he has, but then trying to make a bunch of lefts to make a right isn't helping. Use your best players to win games, throw to the good receivers instead of making them decoys (or worse), like another poster pointed out : call drag routes, hots and dumpoffs ). orl quick developing plays like slants.

But anything other than a 3 step drop is going to get Wilson hit, since he gets pressured in at least half the snaps he takes.

All of this is well known by everyone but our 32 point IQ OC, who I honestly consider the stupidest person in the stadium. Not even sure how he made it this far in his career but clearly a Peter Principle exhibit if ever there was one. At some point, this team needs the OC to do more than just be another obstacle our QB, RB and Defense have to overcome to win.

The trash from diamonds argument might hold water except he is choosing the trash to start over players he and JS liked in the draft.

Why cant he turn a second round tackle into a decent guard,why not turn his 4th round players like Poole and Glow into serviceable starters instead of using college TEs or DL.

It isnt solving problems he is creating the problems.

If the entire management structure is giving Cable so much leeway, that needs to change, much less Cable himself.

Good saying:

If you owe the bank a million dollars it's your problem, if you owe the bank a billion dollars it's their problem. The size of the problem and Cable's 'ability' to pick his projects speaks more about organizational dysfunction than just his own inability to deliver on the projects.

You could say that Cable is making something out of nothing. Which position groups on the Hawks get the least money? The OL is the worst position group and it gets paid the least (discounting for number of players). If you paid the DL like that, you wouldn't have Avril, Bennett. For the LBs you'd have to give up Wags, KJ, or Irvin. Which DB do you keep, Kam, Sherman, or Earl?

I'm not happy about the OL play, but keep in mind that we get what we pay.

 

[MVP53]

I was at the game last night and several people were pissed about the play calls as myself, more stupid bubble screens-although the one to Lockett got decent yards but why do them when you have a guy like Graham? Jet sweeps? really? I get Lockett is fast but that's not our offense. I just feel like Bevel refuses to use his weapons to they're greatest advantage. The running game was starting to work in the 2nd half so why we didn't stick to it is beyond me, Rawls isn't Lynch but he was starting to get some decent runs in. With the way the Lions were blitzing youd think we'd do more traditional screens and hot reads like what we did to Arizona last year at home. Nope, same drop backs, instant pressure, sack, fumble.

I counted 2. Lockett went for 9 and one to Baldwin went for about 3.

People sure hate bubble screens.

 

[mrt144]

"Turning trash into diamonds" is possible.

The problem is the process has costs.

And the upside requires patience, which is a problem if you have contracts that expire.

Look at Sweezy. Sweezy can be a very good if not dominant guard because of his athletic ability, aggression and physicality. But being green, he is going to make mistakes. That isn't a problem when you have other decent OL around you because they compensate for that and the gains offset the mistakes. Eventually you make less and then you start producing net positive benefits.

But what happens when 1/2 the line is reclamation? Assume you make 6-8 big mistakes in a game, that probably translates into 2-3 negative plays. You can live with that. But with 4 players doing the same thing? Suddenly we are at 30+ mistakes and because of the snowball effect, the negative plays turn from 2-3 for every 6-8 mistakes to 3-4 (or 4-5!). Now we are looking at 15+ bad plays, which is enough to account for drive killing plays (since by % that means at least 30% of those are 3rd downs right?) So you lose at least 4 drives to this.

Worse, because the players start worrying about the mistakes, they start dialing back - which removes the very aggression + physicality you have them there for in the first place.

Clearly Bevell is stuck with what he has, but then trying to make a bunch of lefts to make a right isn't helping. Use your best players to win games, throw to the good receivers instead of making them decoys (or worse), like another poster pointed out : call drag routes, hots and dumpoffs ). orl quick developing plays like slants.

But anything other than a 3 step drop is going to get Wilson hit, since he gets pressured in at least half the snaps he takes.

All of this is well known by everyone but our 32 point IQ OC, who I honestly consider the stupidest person in the stadium. Not even sure how he made it this far in his career but clearly a Peter Principle exhibit if ever there was one. At some point, this team needs the OC to do more than just be another obstacle our QB, RB and Defense have to overcome to win.

The trash from diamonds argument might hold water except he is choosing the trash to start over players he and JS liked in the draft.

Why cant he turn a second round tackle into a decent guard,why not turn his 4th round players like Poole and Glow into serviceable starters instead of using college TEs or DL.

It isnt solving problems he is creating the problems.

If the entire management structure is giving Cable so much leeway, that needs to change, much less Cable himself.

Good saying:

If you owe the bank a million dollars it's your problem, if you owe the bank a billion dollars it's their problem. The size of the problem and Cable's 'ability' to pick his projects speaks more about organizational dysfunction than just his own inability to deliver on the projects.

You could say that Cable is making something out of nothing. Which position groups on the Hawks get the least money? The OL is the worst position group and it gets paid the least (discounting for number of players). If you paid the DL like that, you wouldn't have Avril, Bennett. For the LBs you'd have to give up Wags, KJ, or Irvin. Which DB do you keep, Kam, Sherman, or Earl?

I'm not happy about the OL play, but keep in mind that we get what we pay.

Totally, and I agree with you. We are totally getting what we pay for which is why blaming Cable wholly strikes me as off the mark. While he hasn't converted projects to be even serviceable, you can't kneecap a position coach on his position and then blithely let shit roll downhill on him.

 

[xgeoff]

What plays, exactly, would be immediately successful behind this o-line?

Exactly, not a whole hell of a lot. Even Marshawn isn't going anywhere with the way these plays are just absolutely blown up in the backfield.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I thought Bevell called him a great game and I'd give him an extension. The bail-out plays are also there, but when Russ is forced to do a spin move immediately after his third drop step, even those plays are doomed to work. But both Jimmy and Lockett were in for 6 on the run-option had Russell decided to go to them, as he should have. So Bevell had a nice gameplan drawn up, but the line has to hold its blocks another 2 seconds for those plays to develop and work.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I thought Bevell called him a great game and I'd give him an extension. The bail-out plays are also there, but when Russ is forced to do a spin move immediately after his third drop step, even those plays are doomed to work. But both Jimmy and Lockett were in for 6 on the run-option had Russell decided to go to them, as he should have. So Bevell had a nice gameplan drawn up, but the line has to hold its blocks another 2 seconds for those plays to develop and work.

That is almost never the job of the offensive line.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Perhaps not all. But far too few of them.

It's an important distinction. If they're available in the play, then that isn't on Bevell. It's on execution.

That's what I'm saying. They're NOT even designed into far too many plays.

 

[Uncle Si]

Fire Twisted Husky!

(I'm going to start my own thread.. sticky it in the shack)

 

[nrayorr]

We can all make supporting arguments in the firing of Bevell and Cable. However, IMO the weakest link is our OL. Plays cannot develop effectively without the OL providing both run blocking and pass protection in which our OL is struggling at both... I wouldn't even say struggling, they simply can't do either. So, we need to fix our O-line which hasn't been truly dominant since Walter Jones and Hutchison were on the line. Projects need to go now, let's start drafting lineman that play the position and get some FA's that play the position. I'm getting really tired of weak OL play.

 

[justafan]

Arnt most hot routes built into all pass plays.I thought they were sight adjustment routes that depend on both QB and WR to see the same thing and adjust on the fly.

I dont think its a playcall i think its a matter of the WR cutting his route and the QB getting it out on time.

 

[Seahawks4life]

So we needed the ref bailout call to save the game, in a game against an injury depleted team that we should have been able to walk through.

At home. Against the worst team in the league.

Meanwhile I saw a lot of Graham being underutilized again in a game where lack of TDs almost caused us to choke it away. But instead while our OC was choking, the defense rose up and tried to save us from our own ineffective OC.

Even the offense we got came from Wilson improvs, only a handful of effective plays otherwise were successful at all.

Look I agree how Bevell just cant call a full game and does make calls that make you scratch your head, but to say any team in the NFL is horrible and we should walk through them is not true. This is a team that some predicted to go deep into playoffs. They have lots of talent and gave us EVERYTHING they had last night because its there season on the line. 0-4 is a long hill to climb up from and luckily while we are playing some horrible Offense we still WON.

Celebrate, This team will get better, We were 3-3 last season and actually had worse stats than we do now believe it or not that Hawkblogger posted. Our D is finding its stride and our Offense will follow!

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

This thread is embarrassing for Seahawks fans.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

This thread is embarrassing for Seahawks fans.

As so many here are these days.

 

[Siouxhawk]

This thread is embarrassing for Seahawks fans.

It is embarrassing in a fan sense, but it's really not unexpected when you consider there are about 4 or 5 on here who don't have an inkling of the Seahawks way and expect the team to score 45 points an outing. Anything short of that, they blame Bevell. They are unrealistic, but I've accepted that they've learned the bulk of their knowledge of football from Madden 14-20.
A good example of their instant-gratification mentality is that 3rd and 22 play, in which a draw was called to Rawls, who picked up about 4. They think it's the worst play in the world. Why? Because they have the Madden Curse and believe hitting the A button and Y simultaneously would pick up that first down on 8 out of 10 chances. Those of us living in the real world, know that a high-risk play such as that would more likely end up resulting in an interception or another sack of Russell, exposing him to injury or turnover. The real Seahawks' offense plays off its defense, so the prudent move was the one we went with, punting it to pin the Lions deep in their own territory and let our defense keep them in check, resulting in a punt and further good field position for us to reload with a fresh set of downs on offense. It's been the Seahawks' way for the last 3 years or so.