For all those blaming Pete.....

Sgt. Largent

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The FAKE HOLDING CALL on Cross says that YOU are mistaken about shitty Ref calls.
RE Watch that play in particular, and you'll clearly see that the Ref was BEHIND Cross, and could NOT HAVE SEEN a hold from there, yet it was his damned yellow rag that got thrown.
The "BLAME" for that crap call should have gone to WHO if not the Ref then?
NO EXCUSES, Players aren't the only ones that screw up.

I said there were sketchy calls.

Sorry I'm not part of your everyone hates us tinfoil hat wearing club. The league doesn't give a rat's ass if we win or a bad Saint's team that's also not going anywhere this week wins.

The refs have sucked for years. This isn't breaking news.
 

chris98251

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They sent the training crew to this game, Seahawks not suppose to do anything Saints a broken team at the moment.

Nobody is going to watch anyway well except the whiney Seattle people, Saints are used to getting hosed so it won't matter anyway.
 

bigskydoc

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That botched play was on Tanner Muse. He came off his block too early, and started downfield. He holds that block for another second, and Dickson would have had time to make the kick.
 

RiverDog

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Been seeing it in college for a few years now. When the other guys' rush is getting too strong, you adjust the formation to block heavy to one side and the punter goes "rugby style" by stepping a bit to that side and kicking the ball almost on the move. That part of it is valid.

It being the first time in actual action I think Ryan got a little nervous looking at those guys rushing from the left and panicked a bit. I think he still could have gotten the kick off, but he didn't.

Pete said they'd been working on that for a while. It didn't work that time. Oh well. Trying to find someone to blame is kind of a lame fan excercise.
Ryan got a little nervous?...hehe. Hit the fast forward button, my friend.

I've seen it in college for some time, too, but I always thought it was to disrupt the return, not to avoid a rush. I can only recall one time when Dickson has a punt blocked in his career with the Hawks, so that rationale still doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

m0ng0

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It was not a fake, you can see after it breaks down a little he lowered the ball again to try and get one off but thought better of it and channeled his inner Barry Sanders and got squashed :)
 

Nunya

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But when he has he ever gone to the side when it was suppose to be a regular traditional punt? Why would he do that unless it was a called fake or on the 50 or something and he was trying to angle one out of bounds?

1. If the opposing team has a powerful edge rusher...or can put together a bull rush down the center. You roll out to the opposite edge to give your punter time to kick the ball.
2. It is used when you want to "fake" a fake punt in order to open lanes for coverage.
3. Or maybe the were trying to set something up for later.

If you remember, Dickson did the roll out rugby kick thing a couple of times in his first season. However I have not seen him do it in any of his later seasons.
 
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Sgt. Largent

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1. If the opposing team has a powerful edge rusher...or can put together a bull rush down the center. You roll out to the opposite edge to give your punter time to kick the ball.
2. It is used when you want to "fake" a fake punt in order to open lanes for coverage.
3. Or maybe the were trying to set something up for later.

If you remember, Dickson did the roll out rugby kick thing a couple of times in his first season. However I have not seen him do it in any of his later seasons.

Right, which means it wasn't set up for a traditional punt, they had something going there and Dickson didn't get the memo to cancel it because of the penalty.

Death
Taxes
Pete has at least one stupid brain fart per game via stupid challenge, TO or special teams blunder.

He said yesterday "yeah I could have done something about that." Wtf does that mean if it was just suppose to be a regular punt.
 

chrispy

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Dickson practices that regularly, like dozens of times a day. Watch him if you ever get a chance to go to TC. My guess is that it was to get on tape to allow a fake punt either later this game or later in the season. ST needs some attention but drafting a hot shot MLB sends Barton back to ST Capt and solves 2 problems.
 

Maelstrom787

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Right, which means it wasn't set up for a traditional punt, they had something going there and Dickson didn't get the memo to cancel it because of the penalty.

Death
Taxes
Pete has at least one stupid brain fart per game via stupid challenge, TO or special teams blunder.

He said yesterday "yeah I could have done something about that." Wtf does that mean if it was just suppose to be a regular punt.
I... really, really can't get behind this one. It makes no sense that they'd slow roll a rugby style kick if it was an all-out fake. It simply doesn't track.

It was pretty clearly a Dickson option thing, where Dickson chose the very very wrong option and Pete did his standard sword falling.
 

Sgt. Largent

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I... really, really can't get behind this one. It makes no sense that they'd slow roll a rugby style kick if it was an all-out fake. It simply doesn't track.

It was pretty clearly a Dickson option thing, where Dickson chose the very very wrong option and Pete did his standard sword falling.

Aren't we saying the same thing?

The only history of Dickson doing the side style is when he ran for the TD a couple years ago on the fake. So what other conclusion could we come to other than that option to run was still a go? And by Pete saying "I could have stopped it" means it was still on even after the penalty? Idk, but either way it wasn't just Dickson going rogue like a lot of people on here are saying.

Either Pete kept the option fake on after the penalty, or he didn't communicate clearly to Dickson that it was off after the penalty.
 

bigskydoc

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He definitely practices it. Even does so in pre-game. But yeah, I scratch my head to think of any time he has used it, even at Texas. He wasn't a rugby player, either.

I think it's a total red herring. I'm not even sure why you would choose that style of kick in that situation.

Dickson has a bit of an odd form to his punts. He's not flexible enough to kick with a straight leg, like most punters. I remember Schneider commenting on that being one of the things that made it difficult to scout him.

He is also unlike other punters in that he approaches each kick by feel, rather than trying to refine his technique to do it the exact same way every time. He doesn't even watch his own tape. That may make him more sensitive to adjusting when he feels that something is off with his protection. Not necessarily a bad thing. The adjustment may move him out of a position that would have otherwise resulted in a block. In fact, that may be exactly what happened on this play.

At the risk of sounding like John 6:3, I think it most likely not that Dickson was on the wrong page, but that the blocking was, and he was reacting to blown protection.

Before the penalty, I think they called for a fake. After the penalty was assessed, I think they called a regular punt, but didn't change the blocking scheme. Dickson recognized this, after the snap, and started to adjust, to kick off to the right side. Then he saw Muse come off his block (the correct technique if a fake was in progress), and knew he didn't have a chance to get a kick off. He did what he could at that point. Had it been a fake, Dickson wouldn't have danced around in the backfield, he would have taken off, and would have been near the line of scrimmage when Muse came off his block.

Alternatively, it was a supposed to be a fake, and everyone but Dickson ran the called play.
 

TwistedHusky

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It looked like some of the defensive rushers came free and Dickson tried to move away from the pressure. He wouldn't have gotten that kick off either way.
 

scutterhawk

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I said there were sketchy calls.

Sorry I'm not part of your everyone hates us tinfoil hat wearing club. The league doesn't give a rat's ass if we win or a bad Saint's team that's also not going anywhere this week wins.

The refs have sucked for years. This isn't breaking news.
It's not "Tinfoil Hat' shit at all, just ask Tyler Lockett.
When the Officiating is swayed by the home field crowd, and the MOST PENALIZED TEAM in the NFL this season gets 80% of the benefit of doubt calls, THAT IS SCREWED UP OFFICIATING, and that is near impossible to overcome.
Geno and the Offense did enough to win but, taking away 6 points on a PHANTOM HOLDING CALL on Cross is NOT TINFOIL HAT SHIT, Sgt.
The other play that was a chickenshit call by the officials, AGAIN was when DK's forearm was on the turf BEFORE the ball was punched out, REPLAY proved it.
When the Defense is playing like crap, you cannot "OVERCOME" that many screwed up calls...It's like you have to be able to not only BEAT the Opposition (the other team), you have to be able to accept the biased MISTAKES from the 'Striped Jersey Squad' in the boot.
Geno & the Seahawks Offense put up OVER 70+ points in the last TWO games, without a whole lot of help from the Special Teams & Defense, they SHOULDN'T HAVE TO put up with blatant bad calls too.
It was more than the "Some Bad Calls" it was BAD CALLS that erased GOOD CLEAN PLAY.
 

Sgt. Largent

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It's not "Tinfoil Hat' shit at all, just ask Tyler Lockett.
When the Officiating is swayed by the home field crowd, and the MOST PENALIZED TEAM in the NFL this season gets 80% of the benefit of doubt calls, THAT IS SCREWED UP OFFICIATING, and that is near impossible to overcome.
Geno and the Offense did enough to win but, taking away 6 points on a PHANTOM HOLDING CALL on Cross is NOT TINFOIL HAT SHIT, Sgt.
The other play that was a chickenshit call by the officials, AGAIN was when DK's forearm was on the turf BEFORE the ball was punched out, REPLAY proved it.
When the Defense is playing like crap, you cannot "OVERCOME" that many screwed up calls...It's like you have to be able to not only BEAT the Opposition (the other team), you have to be able to accept the biased MISTAKES from the 'Striped Jersey Squad' in the boot.
Geno & the Seahawks Offense put up OVER 70+ points in the last TWO games, without a whole lot of help from the Special Teams & Defense, they SHOULDN'T HAVE TO put up with blatant bad calls too.
It was more than the "Some Bad Calls" it was BAD CALLS that erased GOOD CLEAN PLAY.

Tyler Lockett just said the refs sucked Sunday, he didn't tie it into some grand everyone hates the Seahawks conspiracy like you and others on here are doing.

Big difference.

Did you watch MNF last night? A DOZEN awful calls. It's just bad all over the league.
 

TwistedHusky

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NEWSFLASH:
Poor refereeing almost always favors the home crowd.

Are you watching the NFL lately?

Did you see the Falcons game?

Any others?
Bad calls are literally deciding 1 or 2 games a week, if not more. It ain't just us.
Visiting teams are taking it in the shorts.
However, when games are close - a bad call can make the difference in a score or not. And that decides the outcome.
Saints got lots of calls. Because of terrible refs that are swayed by the home crowd.

Like many other NFL games this year. It is an epidemic.
 

AgentDib

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After rewatching the play quite a few times my take is that Dickson just had a huge mental lapse. The alternative if it was actually a fake punt is that four players (44, 46, 57 and 58) had the mental lapse instead in releasing off blocks to go downfield and that's way less likely.

When Dickson first caught the ball and began rolling to the right there were acres of empty space in front of him. So much room, in fact, that in the heat of the moment I bet he completely forgot about the false start that just happened and thought he saw an easy four yards for a first down. So he takes a couple steps forwards instead of punting. Unfortunately, at that point the blockers naturally break off to go cover downfield and the defenders release right into the gap. That's the point where Dickson realizes that's not an easy four yards after all and he just royally screwed up. In the next half of a second he goes back and forth about whether he should still try to get a punt off, finally decides he can't, and then gets clobbered.

I do think based off that play Dickson has been given a green light to scramble for a first down if it looks like a sure thing, and it initially looked like a sure thing if you're a bit optimistic and also think you just need four yards instead of nine.
 

RiverDog

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I do think based off that play Dickson has been given a green light to scramble for a first down if it looks like a sure thing, and it initially looked like a sure thing if you're a bit optimistic and also think you just need four yards instead of nine.
I sure hope that he doesn't have a green light to scramble for a first down. It was 4th and 9 on our own 21. You don't give a punter that is not used to being a ball carrier the green light in that situation.

This is the 2nd time in the past few weeks that we've had a trick, or at the very least unconventional, play backfire on us. Remember the DJ Dallas pass vs. the Niners?
 
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