Great clip of day 5 of training day: WRs vs DBs

[keasley45]

Should we be concerned that all our DBs looked like they were getting destroyed in that clip?

Nope. They haven't studied tendencies of the guys across from them (Bryant the exception), haven't done a deep dive on film, and... they're going up against what might just end up being 3 of the top 20 players in the game at their position.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

HOF corners get beat at practice.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I think there have been quite a few folks who've gotten peeved when he'd caught the ball and then just sat down on it because he didn't see the point in risking injury for maybe going for an additional yard or two...Lockett plays smart, not careless football.

Yup. I'm one of them.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/receiving?sort=recyac

For those that think it's a useless statistic, or that I just piss on Tyler for laughs. Go to the link. Now that I actually have that grid, I might slice and dice it in Excel.

What it tells me is that Tyler has YAC of 26% of total yards. Let's float in the middle of the grid. I'll pick Dallas Goedert as an example. He's middle of the pac for yac. He's got 60% YAC of total yards. He's the middle. So, using his number, Tyler should have, and let's take 50% as a number for a target - approximately 516 YAC. He's got 274. So, he's leaving 242 yards in YAC on the 'table' making business decisions. So, 242/1033 is 23% of his YAC job that he's 'not doing'.

If I had an employee (when I did) - if they said to me - can I just show up and do 75% of my job, and would that be cool with you? 'Cause I gotta stay fresh for my other job?

They track YAC for performance across players. I'm quite sure that some performance bonuses are keyed around this number also - or for sure total yards.

So, no, I'm not cool with it. Neither are 2 or 3 articles that I've posted on the matter. Neither is Murph from Top Billin' - irrespective of what you think of him.

If you're telling me that between DK (no analysis done) and Tyler that the sewing circle isn't affecting game results with another 500-700 yards between them potentially YAC - they you're delusional. That might have been the difference in tilting 2-4 games into the win column.

Anyhow - I'd say rant off - but don't let a little bit of factual analysis burn too much.

And as a final clarification - I do not hate Tyler. I wish he would do his ENTIRE job. See JSN get immediate Vert after the catch on the camp videos? THAT.

 

[12AngryHawks]

Should we be concerned that all our DBs looked like they were getting destroyed in that clip?

One could easily ask the same question about the WR's if they were the ones getting "destroyed". If the DB's are consistently getting burned practice after practice, then it might be concerning.

On a related note, I love this "problem" that the Seahawks have. A WR room with 2 (possibly 3) elite receivers, and a stacked secondary, these 2 groups are gonna make each other better.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yup. I'm one of them.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/receiving?sort=recyac

For those that think it's a useless statistic, or that I just piss on Tyler for laughs. Go to the link. Now that I actually have that grid, I might slice and dice it in Excel.

What it tells me is that Tyler has YAC of 26% of total yards. Let's float in the middle of the grid. I'll pick Dallas Goedert as an example. He's middle of the pac for yac. He's got 60% YAC of total yards. He's the middle. So, using his number, Tyler should have, and let's take 50% as a number for a target - approximately 516 YAC. He's got 274. So, he's leaving 242 yards in YAC on the 'table' making business decisions. So, 242/1033 is 23% of his YAC job that he's 'not doing'.

If I had an employee (when I did) - if they said to me - can I just show up and do 75% of my job, and would that be cool with you? 'Cause I gotta stay fresh for my other job?

They track YAC for performance across players. I'm quite sure that some performance bonuses are keyed around this number also - or for sure total yards.

So, no, I'm not cool with it. Neither are 2 or 3 articles that I've posted on the matter. Neither is Murph from Top Billin' - irrespective of what you think of him.

If you're telling me that between DK (no analysis done) and Tyler that the sewing circle isn't affecting game results with another 500-700 yards between them potentially YAC - they you're delusional. That might have been the difference in tilting 2-4 games into the win column.

Anyhow - I'd say rant off - but don't let a little bit of factual analysis burn too much.

And as a final clarification - I do not hate Tyler. I wish he would do his ENTIRE job. See JSN get immediate Vert after the catch on the camp videos? THAT.

Tyler is literally one of the best WR's in team history. End of story

 

[scutterhawk]

Should we be concerned that all our DBs looked like they were getting destroyed in that clip?

Nope, not when the D-Backs are pulling up on plays to avoid injuring one of their own at Training sessions, Now, when comes the REAL games when full contact is not only allowed, but encouraged, and if they're not mixing it up with the opponents Receivers? then there's reason for Concern.

 

[hoxrox]

Should we be concerned that all our DBs looked like they were getting destroyed in that clip?

Ya Coby looked like he was beat on a couple of plays, but this is limited footage / sample size. We're not seeing all the reps out there.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Even the almighty Richard Sherman got beat in practice. It's PRACTICE

 

[toffee]

Witherspoon was humbled by our WRs, top ranked WR coro in the league. This is a very good thing, as rookie in his first couple of days in training camp being humbled should led improvement.

Go Spoon

 

[BASF]

Witherspoon was humbled by our WRs, top ranked WR coro in the league. This is a very good thing, as rookie in his first couple of days in training camp being humbled should led improvement.

Go Spoon

According to whom? Bengals are better.

 

[keasley45]

According to whom? Bengals are better.

I think he's drawing a distinction between top ranked and 'THE top ranked'. As in, we have one of the 'top ranked' wr corps in the league, rather than we have 'the top ranked' wr corps...

I think.

 

[AROS]

I heard Witherspoon had a whale of a day yesterday in practice. He's going to be just fine.

 

[Okieseahawk]

HOF corners get beat at practice.

Yeah it’s August practice and let’s wait for the thread about how Jalen Carter would be dominating by now and how Spoonman was such a reach and just a wasted pick.

 

[themunn]

Yup. I'm one of them.

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/receiving?sort=recyac

For those that think it's a useless statistic, or that I just piss on Tyler for laughs. Go to the link. Now that I actually have that grid, I might slice and dice it in Excel.

What it tells me is that Tyler has YAC of 26% of total yards. Let's float in the middle of the grid. I'll pick Dallas Goedert as an example. He's middle of the pac for yac. He's got 60% YAC of total yards. He's the middle. So, using his number, Tyler should have, and let's take 50% as a number for a target - approximately 516 YAC. He's got 274. So, he's leaving 242 yards in YAC on the 'table' making business decisions. So, 242/1033 is 23% of his YAC job that he's 'not doing'.

If I had an employee (when I did) - if they said to me - can I just show up and do 75% of my job, and would that be cool with you? 'Cause I gotta stay fresh for my other job?

They track YAC for performance across players. I'm quite sure that some performance bonuses are keyed around this number also - or for sure total yards.

So, no, I'm not cool with it. Neither are 2 or 3 articles that I've posted on the matter. Neither is Murph from Top Billin' - irrespective of what you think of him.

If you're telling me that between DK (no analysis done) and Tyler that the sewing circle isn't affecting game results with another 500-700 yards between them potentially YAC - they you're delusional. That might have been the difference in tilting 2-4 games into the win column.

Anyhow - I'd say rant off - but don't let a little bit of factual analysis burn too much.

And as a final clarification - I do not hate Tyler. I wish he would do his ENTIRE job. See JSN get immediate Vert after the catch on the camp videos? THAT.

Does YAC really matter? Or is YPC more important? Would you rather a 1 yard catch with 10 yards after catch or a 15 yard catch with 0?

Tyler's 13.3 career avg matches Doug Baldwin, is slightly behind DK (13.8), but compares favourably to other top receivers such as Davante Adams (12.5), DeAndre Hopkins (13.2), Cooper Kupp (12.5), Steffon Diggs (12.5), CeeDee Lamb (13.1).

Of the top receivers only Tyreek Hill (13.9), Justin Jefferson (14.9) and AJ Brown (16.5!) have higher career averages. Incidentally 2 of those 3 were first team all pro last year, and the other (Brown) 2nd team.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah it’s August practice and let’s wait for the thread about how Jalen Carter would be dominating by now and how Spoonman was such a reach and just a wasted pick.

Oh it's coming. Spoon could have 10 straight amazing practices and all we would hear about is him getting burnt by Tyler.

 

[AROS]

More on Witherspoon from The Athletic's Michael Shawn-Dugar:

1. Rookie first-round pick Devon Witherspoon has had his energy level turned up to the maximum in these padded practices. Playing backup nickel during a run period, Witherspoon flew in and recorded what would have been a huge tackle for loss on quarterback Drew Lock, then strutted back to the huddle. On the first play of a blitz period in the red zone, Witherspoon — playing left cornerback — was animated after preventing Tyler Lockett from catching a touchdown from Smith.

Later in the drill, Witherspoon leveled Dee Eskridge on the sideline, then went helmet to helmet and exchanged words with the receiver as the two ran back to the line of scrimmage. Witherspoon blew up a run by Dallas in another team period and roared in celebration. Being able to cover as both a nickel and an outside cornerback, play the run and bring fire to every play is making Witherspoon stand out nearly every day.

“I love his spirit and the energy that he brings playing this game,” Hurtt said. “It’s infectious with this young kid, that’s just how he is all the time. That’s something that everybody else will build off of. He had a heck of a day. Super competitive. He’s going to tackle, he’s going to get in fits and obviously, we know what he can do as a cover guy. Really impressed with him.”

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Tyler is literally one of the best WR's in team history. End of story

It's not the end of the story just because you say so.

'literally one of the best WR's in team history' - is a pretty broad umbrella.

Never said he wasn't good. My problem is with him doing 100% of his job. Talk to me in 3 months when JSN eats his lunch.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Whatever man. You just like to argue. Lighten up man. He IS one of the best in team history. Don't let the truth get in the way.
You just don't like the guy, and that's fine. Good luck with that. Where will you be when he's in the Ring of Honor? Will you yell that he's overrated from your seat? JSN eats his lunch? What are you even talking about? Now I've heard it all. Tyler effin Lockett doesn't do his job

 

[Mad Dog]

Should we be concerned that all our DBs looked like they were getting destroyed in that clip?

The only DB that was consistently giving up position and space was Coby. Spoon, Jackson, Brown were consistently with their man. Spoon got beat a little on a comeback but if it was pads and hitting, I doubt that would happen.

I guess your expectations for DB play and the realities of the new rules (which aren't that new anymore) are a bit disparate right now.

And JSN and Lockett are otherworldly as far as route runners.

 

[fenderbender123]

I don't know what my expectations are. Hence why I asked.