Hawks trying to trade WR Kearse

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mrt144

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Sgt. Largent":2v2f9wsq said:
mrt144":2v2f9wsq said:
I think if you did league wide comparisons with other teams you'd find Kearse is singularly unique in the missed opportunities - Take any team with a Top 10 QB (as you define it) and try and find a WR that has similar amount of missed opportunities both in volume and conversion. Allowing for the possibility that so many of Kearse's opportunities are harder ones than most other comparable players, is he the right player to take those harder plays on? I think the output suggests he isn't but for lack of other options on the team and schematic reluctance to adjust, he is.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

But bottom line for me is Kearse had 80 targets last year, and only a 50% completion percentage...........and the WORST red zone catch rate of any WR in the entire league vs targets.

Yes he blocks, yes he's durable. But it's time to move on and give someone else a shot to become a more dynamic #2 option for us. Cause I'm sure as hell tired of seeing him swallowed up by DB's seemingly every play cause he can't get separation, especially in the red zone.

AND it might save us 2.2M? Yes please.

Okay, yeah, I wasn't totally clear so I'll give it another shot

Q: Why does JK have such a low catch rate, especially in the RZ?
A: Because he is receiving a lot of hard targets from RW under duress.

Q: Okay, so JK is a sin eater for broken plays - are there similar players on other teams that fulfill that role and have similar context with having a good to great QB? Being outlets for a QB under duress? How are they performing?
A: Oh, you see, any other receiver would similarly flail haplessly if plugged into that position and role on this team.

Q: Are you saying that JK gets the worst of the worst from RW's passing attempts and this is unique specifically to the Seahawks - having a starting WR that functions as a go to player, who eats the sins of his OL and QB? A QB who otherwise does as well if not better with his stable of other receivers than comparable QBs do?
A: Yes.

I don't buy that though. First, I don't buy that JK is possibly the best person on the team for that role - I feel vindicated in that belief by his stats. If he was as good in that role as some are intimating, I wouldn't expect two totally bogus seasons out of 4. I wouldn't expect him to receive so many targets and fail to convert him. Secondly, I am not seeing other players on other teams with good QBs have similarly profiled WRs but I'm sure the role of sin eater exists to some extent - a go to guy when things get hot for the QB. The trick is identifying these types of players that get hard targets and make the most of them. By virtue of Kearse's bad seasons in the RZ, it is a safe assumption to me at least, he is probably one of the LEAST suited to be the guy you would want to look for as a chaos outlet across the league. Again, nobody seemingly matches Kearse's profile of being a go to player who does so little because almost every other highly targetted WRs actually convert and low targeted ones generally do not.

I feel like the hard target argument is faulty because it invokes special pleading that Kearse is getting the worst possible opportunities from RW and that this dynamic singularly unique to the Seahawks. In fact looking at some of the bad teams in the league like the Browns, I see WR's who are similar to Kearse in the RZ - high volume of targets lower catch % but they are not the only player on the team suffering like this. They are one of three or four players on the team suffering with sub 40% catch rates. That simply isn't happening with the Hawks though.

So to reiterate:

If JK is getting all the hardest targets maybe he isn't the right player to get them based on his historical output of getting them. I don't understand how that point is contentious. It surely mucks up where blame lies taking some of it off of Kearse and putting it into the hands of RW and Bevell to correct for. Even if you can't personally blame Kearse for not being a better receiver, you can blame RW and Bevell for blithely trying to make hard things happen with a WR who can't.
 

Seymour

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Sgt. Largent":3qk91k2f said:
Seymour":3qk91k2f said:
I get the desire, but they still in that case would have been better off letting Ifedi "cut his teeth' on Frank Clark and take Sunday off.

Not even starting your first round pick would have not only been a drafting failure, but you're stunting his growth.

Only way to gain experience and know if you made the right pick is games.

I get that Evans had a good year, and in hindsight we should have kept him. But we drafted Ifedi, you gotta play him, or else why waste a first rounder on him in the first place?

Exactly....
 

jdemps

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I find myself pretty torn about Kearse but I feel like I'm too attached to the clutch catches of yesteryear. TBH, he's a guy that does the dirty work, but he's the guy that has to do the dirty work because he can't get any separation himself. His crazy catch last Friday.... zero separation. He shielded the defender using his body and Russell dropped him a dime. I think his problem with the red zone is just that Russ is bad on Red Zone fades, so I discount that argument. He can't hit anyone on these.

In the end, 6'1" guy who can't get separation are a dime a dozen in the NFL. We currently have 2 guys with similar builds who could develop to have higher ceilings. Those players are Kasen Williams and Darboh (who is the biggest disappointment of the preseason. I think we drop Kearse and develop these 2. You know who does have a different body type that will be cut if we keep Kearse, Tanner McEvoy. Pete (and I) love 6'5" receivers.

Final point: this is a lot of hand wringing over a guy that SHOULD be the 5th or 6th guy to be targeted. Here's a list of guys who I would rather target than Kearse in order: Baldwin, Graham, Lockett, Procise, and Richardson. I might include Carson and Willson on this list as well.
 

Overseasfan

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SInce 6 receivers is the most likely scenario this looks to be a move to be able to keep all 3 of Williams, McEvoy and Darboh. All 3 are similar to Kearse in the role they play. Williams and McEvoy have played too well to cut and Darboh looks to be a guy the FO (and so was I during the draft) wants to develop as a future starter as the reliable high point pass catcher Kearse was supposed to be.

If we can get any kind of value for Kearse then this situation is probably the best we could get as none of the 3 above would ever make the PS.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Overseasfan":16i49px3 said:
SInce 6 receivers is the most likely scenario this looks to be a move to be able to keep all 3 of Williams, McEvoy and Darboh. All 3 are similar to Kearse in the role they play. Williams and McEvoy have played too well to cut and Darboh looks to be a guy the FO (and so was I during the draft) wants to develop as a future starter as the reliable high point pass catcher Kearse was supposed to be.

If we can get any kind of value for Kearse then this situation is probably the best we could get as none of the 3 above would ever make the PS.


This pretty much nails Pete and John's thought process, and why they're shopping Kearse.

Pete's always preached upside, and Kearse has long reached his upside potential ceiling, there's nothing else to see. You get a WR with a below average skill set that does the dirty work...........or you can see if we can upgrade the position with 2-3 other WR's that have a higher upside.

Yes Darboh hasn't done anything, but;

- he's been dinged up
- he's had one target
- you're not going to cut a 3rd round pick that you were super high on during the draft process

My guess is we'll see a LOT of Darboh tonight.
 

jammerhawk

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Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
 

massari

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jammerhawk":1u7bdjgq said:
Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
I'd give Kearse and a 3rd rounder for Gordon's rights.
 

iigakusei

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massari":2qp8i73k said:
jammerhawk":2qp8i73k said:
Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
I'd give Kearse and a 3rd rounder for Gordon's rights.
You would give a 3rd rounder for a guy who hasn't played in three years and might never play again?
Interesting choice.
 

StoneCold

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iigakusei":2zijhigb said:
massari":2zijhigb said:
jammerhawk":2zijhigb said:
Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
I'd give Kearse and a 3rd rounder for Gordon's rights.
You would give a 3rd rounder for a guy who hasn't played in three years and might never play again?
Interesting choice.

[youtube]U7Pr8qFkkHQ[/youtube]
 

SoulfishHawk

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Kearse for JJ Watt, straight up. My friend's uncle's cousin's dad's girlfriend's best friend is a solid source :irishdrinkers:
 

Mojambo

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Steve2222":12e68pby said:
lol I'd easily take Gordon's rights over a 5th rounder

I can't believe there are still people who believe that Josh Gordon will ever play another down of NFL football.
 

Seymour

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massari":1pmflequ said:
jammerhawk":1pmflequ said:
Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
I'd give Kearse and a 3rd rounder for Gordon's rights.

We're not going to let you do that.
 

massari

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iigakusei":24j78k5t said:
massari":24j78k5t said:
jammerhawk":24j78k5t said:
Meh! Headcase with drug issues.

I'd rather have a 5th rd. pick.
I'd give Kearse and a 3rd rounder for Gordon's rights.
You would give a 3rd rounder for a guy who hasn't played in three years and might never play again?
Interesting choice.
He'll play again and could get reinstated by late September. I wouldn't count on that but would count on him being back by next season. When he plays, he's a proven top tier WR and good in the locker room. Given his PROVEN talent, I'd say it's no more a risk than a guy picked in the late 3rd round who doesn't have a weed problem.
 

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