Jazzhawk
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Was a Defensive Coach with the Seahawks for 3 years, including our Championship season.
No wonder their Defense is good.
No wonder their Defense is good.
Interesting Fact: Robert Selah (49ers DC)
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Jazzhawk":28qdedve said:
Um...not sure that's news. He was also in Jacksonville with Gus Bradley.
The 49ers run an offshoot of the same D that Seattle runs. That's why Richard Sherman signed in SF. They've moved to a bit of a wide 9 under D-Line coach Kris Kocurek, but still very similar.
Should also be noted that Carroll runs a D that was an offshoot of George Seiferts D in SF (and Carroll was a DC in SF). The Leo is effectively the Elephant that Charles Haley made famous.
That's not to claim Seattle success...more just to illustrate that everyone copies everyone when it works and everyone makes their own little tweaks here and there.
Marvin49":1u3s7imd said:
Seifert is one underrated mofo. After all these years, I've retroactively bumped him up to #2 all time HC for SF. Harbaugh, Mariucci, Kyle Shanahan were all great, but George has 5 rings with the team and was a DB guru before such a thing was really a thing.
The 49er dynasty was a top 5 defensive unit with two Hof QBs, CB/FS, then WR. They were never a true offensive light 'em up smoke show. And Seifert was a huge reason why, while Walsh got all the credit.
Anyway, Carroll was a good DC for SF. Maybe his highlight there was the ass kicking the 49ers took to the Cowboys in Dallas with Grbac filling in for Young. Some big time play calls from Pete in that game.
I saw some pundit claim the Seattle 4-3 Under Cover 3 is obsolete based on the stats of Seahawks, Chargers, Falcons this year. Someone should have told him the 49ers are keeping it afloat. :irishdrinkers:
Sports Hernia
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Bradley was a good coach but crappy defensive play caller, he loved the soft zone crap.Marvin49":9o33vjam said:
Quinn isn’t a very good HC once the league caught up to him, but I really liked him as the DC, he worked well with one of the best defenses of all time. I like Norton better as a linebackers coach than a DC.
Sports Hernia":38h7yqdy said:
I think Quinn was exposed when he lost Kyle Shanahan. Their D sucked even the year they went to the SB but he's never been able to build a defense there.
Atlanta would have been better off letting Quinn go and elevating Shanahan instead of letting him walk out the door.
RolandDeschain
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Ken Norton Jr. just knows the Seahawks are a better organization to spend your career with. Don't hate on him for that fact. :lol:NINEster":2gy94f18 said:
It's important to remember that much of Pete's defense was learned from Monte Kiffin. Although, Pete's clearly borrowed from his time with the 49ers, his defense is hardly an offshoot of Seiferts. It's more of a hybrid of Monte Kiffin's defense with a few of Seifert's concepts sprinkled in (among other things).
As for Saleh; I don't know if his success tells us much about him as a coach. He's overseen the 25th and 28th ranked defenses prior to this season, and he's currently coaching one of the more talent laden defenses in quite some time. They have five 1st round picks in their front 7, and three of those five are top 10 picks. One thing we know about PC disciples is that they typically struggle when they don't have elite talent. So is it Saleh? or does this scheme require a high amount of talent to be successful?
To be fair, the same could be applied to Pete post LOB. However, what separates Pete from his disciples (IMO), is his ability to coach situational defense at a high level regardless of the defense's overall talent.
As for Saleh; I don't know if his success tells us much about him as a coach. He's overseen the 25th and 28th ranked defenses prior to this season, and he's currently coaching one of the more talent laden defenses in quite some time. They have five 1st round picks in their front 7, and three of those five are top 10 picks. One thing we know about PC disciples is that they typically struggle when they don't have elite talent. So is it Saleh? or does this scheme require a high amount of talent to be successful?
To be fair, the same could be applied to Pete post LOB. However, what separates Pete from his disciples (IMO), is his ability to coach situational defense at a high level regardless of the defense's overall talent.
kobebryant
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Marvin49":13wwbsib said:
Regardless of how it ends for Quinn now, I think it's been an objectively successful tenure for him.
There's something to consider though about how most branches of Pete's defenses, including Seattle, aren't looking too good aside from Saleh. Pete, DQ, Gus(LAC) , Wash(Jax). The league may have it figured out and Seattle doesn't have the all-decade personnel that they did.
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Jazzhawk
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Sure it is to the casual Seahawks fan.Marvin49":2h1xfobk said:
As for the other comment, that's well known, and something I've pointed out a few times before. Plus, I grew up on 49ers games, Siefert, Haley, and many others, so no news. (bailed on them when the league forced DeBartolo out and the York family took over and I coincidentally moved to Seattle).
Neener, neener, neener.
knownone":26ptn7sf said:
The point was that everyone steals from everyone.
If it works, someone will ATTEMPT to duplicate it. Can't always be done as we are seeing with former Seattle DCs.
IMO I think the defense is sound (obviously) and its simplicity is its strength. It allows players to play fast and not have to think out there.
That's all great, but you need horses out there. You need talent.
Its not a shock that the 49ers have taken off this year by adding Nick Bosa, Dee Ford, and Kwon Alexander. The difference isn't Saleh. The difference is those three guys added to Buckner, Armstead, Warner and Sherman.
Now they finally have Jimmie Ward on the field and he looks fantastic...which he seemingly always does, but he can never STAY on the field. I've never seen a guy hurt as much as he is.
ivotuk
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I would expect the 49ers to be good on defense, with all of the high 1st round picks they've had recently. And kudos to them, they've chosen very well.
Granted, it takes a good coach to make those guys play as a unit, and Selah looks like he's going to be a star in this league. But let's temper this a bit with the ingredients being part of the cook's repertoire.
2019 #2 Nick Bosa DE Ohio State
2018 #9 Mike McGlinchey Tackle Notre Dame
2017 #3 Solomon Thomas DL Stanford
2016 #7 DeForest Buckner DE Oregon
2016 #28 Joshua Garnett G Stanford
2015 #17 Arik Armstead DE Oregon
2014 # 30 Jimmie Ward
Granted, it takes a good coach to make those guys play as a unit, and Selah looks like he's going to be a star in this league. But let's temper this a bit with the ingredients being part of the cook's repertoire.
2019 #2 Nick Bosa DE Ohio State
2018 #9 Mike McGlinchey Tackle Notre Dame
2017 #3 Solomon Thomas DL Stanford
2016 #7 DeForest Buckner DE Oregon
2016 #28 Joshua Garnett G Stanford
2015 #17 Arik Armstead DE Oregon
2014 # 30 Jimmie Ward
ivotuk":2sy2fdp9 said:
Totally....
...but Prior to this year the only guys on that list that had come close to producing at all were DeForest Buckner and Mike McGlinchey.
Thomas? Bust so far (tho showed signs of life vs Rams).
Garnett? Released. Bust.
Armstead? Pretty good when healthy, rarely healthy, monster so far this year.
Ward? See Armstead.
Sgt. Largent
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NINEster":2pzsyc7a said:
It's funny how much credit coaches and coordinators get with very little mention of personnel. Hasn't Saleh been in SF since 2017? Where was all the praise for him the past two seasons when the Niners were getting their head's kicked in defensively? 14th in total defense in 2018 and 24th in total defense in 2017.
Gee, have #1 picks all over your roster and buckets of free agent cap space to spend filling in needs, and voila, all of a sudden this dude's a defensive genius.
knownone":1tdrm84s said:
Yes, I agree entirely, along with the hiring of Kris Kocurek this year on the D-Line.
The Niners have had inside rushers for a few years now. Buckner had 12 sacks last year.
What they have been missing is edge rushers. Its not often that you go out and make a trade and that guy plays exactly as you hoped or that you draft a guy really high and he plays like gangbusters as a rookie, but that's what has happened with Ford and Bosa.
Perfect example this year...On the first pass attempt of the game by Goff, both Bosa and Ford bullrushed their guys right into Goff. He scrambled forward, tripped over and offensive lineman (who unfortunately was hurt on the play when Alexander rolled into his legs), and was tagged down for the sack by Ronald Blair.
They just didn't have that last year. Those two guys have made an ENORMOUS difference.
Watch both DEs.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/StevenVanOver/status/1183482490960273408[/tweet]
Exactly...good teams are built with available money and the best available talent to spend it on . Coaching is many times blamed for things out of their control . They need a core of great players to have a great team . The best coach in the world can't do much with a locker room full of UDFAs that they got for cheap .Sgt. Largent":35pevf2w said:
xray":tpnhe0ih said:
So true, especially in this D. The whole point is to make it simple so players can play fast. If you don't have the horses, it doesn't matter.
That's Why Seattle was good in that system. That's why the Jags were good in that system and thats why now the Niners are good in that system.
It doesn't matter if you get the coach if you don't spend the resources to get the horses. I mean tell me if I'm wrong, but yes, the draft was great for Seattle in picking up 3/4 of the LOB and Bobby Wagner, but it seems to me they REALLY took off when they acquired Avril and Bennett.
I wish I could remember who said it (Bill Walsh? Bill Parcells? I can't remember) but SOMEBODY once said "You can scheme offense, but on D you need athletes".
