Isn't the Seahawks mantra "We reward our own..."?

[Rocket]

The differences between botched and ignored ain't semantics, they're different concepts entirely.
One is an an action, the other inaction.

 

[kearly]

'Reward our own' has always been duplicitous politician speak. Miller, Rice, Bryant, and Clemons still had value to Seattle when their contracts were terminated. Bryant actually had the best year of his career before being cut. Cutting Lynch wouldn't undermine anything because there was never any credibility there anyway. But the players know the business and they understand, so it's not a big deal.

What is a big deal is letting the best player on your team, arguably the best player in the history of your team, walk to save $7 million. This would be a foolish move to say the least. Cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Could Lynch hit the RB wall at any time? Sure. But why care about that on what amounts to a 1 year deal? And if Seattle does extend Lynch, it's not terribly hard to write the contract for an easy out after a season or two.

I could be totally wrong, but I think that players who are exceptions to the norm tend to do things the norm cannot. 5'10" QBs aren't supposed to have success in the NFL. But Wilson is clearly exceptional. RBs aren't supposed to be getting better every single year, into their 8th NFL season. That just doesn't happen, unless you are a HoFer.

Lynch is a HoFer by talent. I could care less if fringe RBs have less than 3 years shelf life in the NFL, that has no bearing on a unique individual like Lynch. The same way that the failures of previous short QBs has no bearing on Wilson.

Maybe Lynch's back gives out, or maybe he loses his fire, but his athleticism and toughness are going nowhere. You can't compare him to other backs, you just can't.

Further, Lynch's career workload is not as high as people think, he'd still need two more seasons like this one to reach the career carries that Corey Dillon had, as a random example (and Dillon played pretty well even during his final seasons).

 

[hawkfan68]

Tell me another RB in the league that makes this type of run.
I'll wait.

And your going to be waiting for a long time. The point is as great as that run was, he was limited to 3.2 YPC that game. Thats not against him, but that was poor lineplay because once we saw Okung and Unger come back, you saw him run at a 6.7 YPC clip. I dont call that a coincidence. You need more than just an elite back for an elite running game.

Yards per carry (YPC) is such a meaningless stat. It doesn't give the whole picture of what may truly be occurring. For example, if a rb had 30 carries and rushes for 100 yds but scores 3 tds. His ypc is low but he has had a big impact on the game scoring and touches wise. Gravitating toward ypc as "the primary statistic to use" for running backs evaluation is useless. Maurice Morris had better ypc than Shaun Alexander....who was the better back? No doubt it was Shaun.

 

[SonicHawk]

If the Hawks cut Lynch next year, I won't be surprised. However, I don't think even Lynch knows how much longer he's got as a top RB.

 

[kearly]

I believe Brock Huard said he's scheduled to make 8 Million in 2015.

That would have been true in July. But after the restructure compromise, Lynch now earns $7 million in 2015. $5 million base, $2 million in roster bonuses.

They sign him to big long money and he goes bad (as almost all normal running backs do at that age) and their championship window slams shut fast and hard.

Not at all. Did Flynn sink the Seahawks? Because his contract was worth $10 million in dead money. Charlie Whitehurst was a good waste of coin as well. How about Sidney Rice and Zach Miller on those big ass contracts from 2011-2013?

Lynch failing to earn every cent of $7 million isn't going to hurt much. And if Lynch does fall off the cliff, the Hawks still have Turbin and Michael to fall back on.

 

[NJSeahawk]

'Reward our own' has always been duplicitous politician speak. Miller, Rice, Bryant, and Clemons still had value to Seattle when their contracts were terminated. Bryant actually had the best year of his career before being cut. Cutting Lynch wouldn't undermine anything because there was never any credibility there anyway. But the players know the business and they understand, so it's not a big deal.

What is a big deal is letting the best player on your team, arguably the best player in the history of your team, walk to save $7 million. This would be a foolish move to say the least. Cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Could Lynch hit the RB wall at any time? Sure. But why care about that on what amounts to a 1 year deal? And if Seattle does extend Lynch, it's not terribly hard to write the contract for an easy out after a season or two.

I could be totally wrong, but I think that players who are exceptions to the norm tend to do things the norm cannot. 5'10" QBs aren't supposed to have success in the NFL. But Wilson is clearly exceptional. RBs aren't supposed to be getting better every single year, into their 8th NFL season. That just doesn't happen, unless you are a HoFer.

Lynch is a HoFer by talent. I could care less if fringe RBs have less than 3 years shelf life in the NFL, that has no bearing on a unique individual like Lynch. The same way that the failures of previous short QBs has no bearing on Wilson.

Maybe Lynch's back gives out, or maybe he loses his fire, but his athleticism and toughness are going nowhere. You can't compare him to other backs, you just can't.

Further, Lynch's career workload is not as high as people think, he'd still need two more seasons like this one to reach the career carries that Corey Dillon had, as a random example (and Dillon played pretty well even during his final seasons).

Great post, as always.

 

[kpak76]

Tell me another RB in the league that makes this type of run.
I'll wait.

And your going to be waiting for a long time. The point is as great as that run was, he was limited to 3.2 YPC that game. Thats not against him, but that was poor lineplay because once we saw Okung and Unger come back, you saw him run at a 6.7 YPC clip. I dont call that a coincidence. You need more than just an elite back for an elite running game.

Yards per carry (YPC) is such a meaningless stat. It doesn't give the whole picture of what may truly be occurring. For example, if a rb had 30 carries and rushes for 100 yds but scores 3 tds. His ypc is low but he has had a big impact on the game scoring and touches wise. Gravitating toward ypc as "the primary statistic to use" for running backs evaluation is useless. Maurice Morris had better ypc than Shaun Alexander....who was the better back? No doubt it was Shaun.

So I'm wondering why your harping on something I agree with, but rather to choose to ignore the point I was making. The point of bringing up the YPC was to point out the improvment of the line play. We all know what kind of runner Lynch is. But even a beast like him cant get yards when the line sucks ballz.

Makes me think people never read others comments, only want to react to them.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If the Hawks cut Lynch next year, I won't be surprised. However, I don't think even Lynch knows how much longer he's got as a top RB.

Nobody in the league knows how much longer they have, that's why when you're playing amazing football like Lynch you leverage it into a new deal.

That's the NFL. No one honors their contract unless both sides want to........and Lynch will not want to, and I don't think the Hawks will want to either. A position as important on how this team is built, Pete and John are going to want at least a 2-3 year answer at RB as far as who's going to be there.

 

[kpak76]

If the Hawks cut Lynch next year, I won't be surprised. However, I don't think even Lynch knows how much longer he's got as a top RB.

Nobody in the league knows how much longer they have, that's why when you're playing amazing football like Lynch you leverage it into a new deal.

That's the NFL. No one honors their contract unless both sides want to........and Lynch will not want to, and I don't think the Hawks will want to either. A position as important on how this team is built, Pete and John are going to want at least a 2-3 year answer at RB as far as who's going to be there.

Tell me what kind of leverage Lynch has over the Hawks? He can demand a new contract all he wants, but I HIGHLY doubt we give him an extension. At best I can see us guaranteeing his money for next year is about it.

 

[hawkfan68]

Tell me another RB in the league that makes this type of run.
I'll wait.

And your going to be waiting for a long time. The point is as great as that run was, he was limited to 3.2 YPC that game. Thats not against him, but that was poor lineplay because once we saw Okung and Unger come back, you saw him run at a 6.7 YPC clip. I dont call that a coincidence. You need more than just an elite back for an elite running game.

Yards per carry (YPC) is such a meaningless stat. It doesn't give the whole picture of what may truly be occurring. For example, if a rb had 30 carries and rushes for 100 yds but scores 3 tds. His ypc is low but he has had a big impact on the game scoring and touches wise. Gravitating toward ypc as "the primary statistic to use" for running backs evaluation is useless. Maurice Morris had better ypc than Shaun Alexander....who was the better back? No doubt it was Shaun.

So I'm wondering why your harping on something I agree with, but rather to choose to ignore the point I was making. The point of bringing up the YPC was to point out the improvment of the line play. We all know what kind of runner Lynch is. But even a beast like him cant get yards when the line sucks ballz.

Makes me think people never read others comments, only want to react to them.

How do you know that improved line play is the reason for improvement in ypc? It could be or not. There are other factors that go in to ypc that doesn't necessarily reflect improved line play. The defense may be weaker, the running back may be healthier, etc. I've been agreeing with you about OL. I said earlier that Lynch's biggest atrribute is yards after contact. He is absolutely the best at that. They flashed a stat during yesterday's game while Lynch had 87 yards and of those 63 of them came after initial contact. Yards after contact is Lynch by himself most of the time. Maybe you should learn to abide by your advice.

 

[HawkFan72]

You guys assume Lynch wants to play longer. I know for a fact that the rumors of Lynch wanting to retire last year after the Super Bowl are very real. Even if the Seahawks were open to keeping him, he may not want to play anymore after this year. He was very close to walking away on his own terms after last season.

 

[kpak76]

How do you know that improved line play is the reason for improvement in ypc? It could be or not. There are other factors that go in to ypc that doesn't necessarily reflect improved line play. The defense may be weaker, the running back may be healthier, etc. I've been agreeing with you about OL. I said earlier that Lynch's biggest atrribute is yards after contact. He is absolutely the best at that. They flashed a stat during yesterday's game while Lynch had 87 yards and of those 63 of them came after initial contact. Yards after contact is Lynch by himself most of the time. Maybe you should learn to abide by your advice.

Your right I don't know. I'm using deductive reasoning, and its a scenerio similar to 1+1=2 for me. Normally when the lineplay improves the rushers rush better. The lineplay improved when we added our 2 pro-bowlers and the rushing improved. So I think I am going to stick with that the imroved play in our line contributed to the improved running attack.

Once again its not about Lynch and his YPC, its comparing one game from another. One game we didn't have our pro-bowlers and his YPC was below acceptable. Then we added those two guys back and we skyrocketted. Both games were played against similar competition (bottom dwellers in the NFL). You can harp all you want on why YPC is a crappy stat (which your right and wrong, there is no one stat that tells the entire story anyways), but it doesn't effect my argument about lineplay improving the rushing attack.

 

[kpak76]

You guys assume Lynch wants to play longer. I know for a fact that the rumors of Lynch wanting to retire last year after the Super Bowl are very real. Even if the Seahawks were open to keeping him, he may not want to play anymore after this year. He was very close to walking away on his own terms after last season.

This is also a possiblity that can come into play this offseason.

 

[jammerhawk]

I could see the team extending Lynch for another year and giving him a good bit of guaranteed money, or for a bit longer and crafting the the deal so if the wheels do fall off he could be jettisoned w/o much dead money. Typically it is a mistake to sign older RBs to long deals b/c the performance cliff is steep when they get older. Roster bonus guaranteed $ deals start to look better. Lynch though is a very unusual player who seemingly still has healthy wheels unlike a lot of RBs as they get older. His high contact running style is unusual and must be causing some wear and tear though he seems to be a punisher rather than the guy punished.

I could see him easily having 3 more years of effectiveness after this season if he stays healthy which the team may be able to control if the right deal can be arranged. As noted he's under contract for another year and if he wants another big contract to close out his career he will need to keep playing as well as he can. At least if nothing else the team may be able to control the best part of the time he has left in his career.

Like many I'd prefer the team to keep him and I"m sure the FO is mulling over what to do with him. He is a huge part of the nasty swagger the team has developed under Pn'J. If he's going to not be kept I think he's worth a relatively early pick from another team who I hope won't be in our division.

Yesterday was the best he's run in some time. Let's all be patient, he's under contract until 2016.

 

[chris98251]

Just thinking if Schneider thought that this guy is 28 need to cut him after this season, Ben to Tomlin, with Lynch we win the Super Bowl, Peyton to Elway, we dominate with Lynch, he doesn't have to carry the ball a lot either but when he does our offense is going to be unstoppable.

 

[rideaducati]

I've seen this thread before. Only the names have changed. If a player loses value as time goes on, it's best to let the player go too early than too late. Some people hate Shawn Alexander because of his last couple years in Seattle. I don't want to hate Marshawn because his contract hurts the team and he isn't playing like he used to.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I've seen this thread before. Only the names have changed. If a player loses value as time goes on, it's best to let the player go too early than too late. Some people hate Shawn Alexander because of his last couple years in Seattle. I don't want to hate Marshawn because his contract hurts the team and he isn't playing like he used to.

This is my worry. It got horrible until Pete arrived and I don't ever want to go through a Mora era again no matter how short.It was almost as bad as Behring and Flores almost...

 

[volsunghawk]

I've seen this thread before. Only the names have changed. If a player loses value as time goes on, it's best to let the player go too early than too late. Some people hate Shawn Alexander because of his last couple years in Seattle. I don't want to hate Marshawn because his contract hurts the team and he isn't playing like he used to.

I don't think people hated Alexander for his last couple of years. I don't think people "hated" him at all. I think they were frustrated by his tendency to run out of bounds or fail to break tackles (i.e., going down at first contact), and that they felt that it was a failure to give 100% in a game out of a desire for self-preservation. In other words, they viewed him as uber-talented, with great vision, deceptive speed, but lacking in desire/toughness. And when the superior blocking in front of him was no longer superior, his play fell off drastically.

I just can't see Lynch in the same scenario. Does anyone remember the Giants game in 2010? Lynch had been a Seahawk for about a month, and the jury was still out (at least here at .NET) about whether he was worth anything. He had a garbage YPC against the Bears, but some folks were lauding his play in that game. Against the Raiders, he carried 9 times for 7 yards. A lot of people were saying that we had gotten fleeced by Buffalo. And in that Giants game, we were starting Charlie Whitehurst, and we were down almost immediately by 3 TDs. I remember one run where Lynch only gained a couple of yards. He had been hit about 5 yards deep in the backfield by a slew of Giant defenders, and he BULLED his way forward past the line of scrimmage, finally falling forward after being hit by what seemed like 8 different Giants.

That's the huge difference between Alexander and Lynch, and why I don't agree with the sentiment that Lynch has no leverage or that he can be replaced if he holds out. His running in 2010 and 2011, along with the Beastquake run, helped define the personality of our team. He never looks like he's making "business decisions" out there. He looks like he wants to run through a defender on every single play. And he seems like he's all about the game. He doesn't want to be, as Cam Newton so mindlessly put it, "an icon and entertainer." He wants to ball. The game is what's important to him... not all the trappings that go along with it. Having a guy like that is rare, imo.

I can't see the future, and I can't guarantee that Lynch will be effective/avoid injury for the next several years (though he's been pretty durable thus far, especially considering his running style). But I think it's clear that our offense works best when it revolves around Beast Mode (not just "the run game", but Lynch himself). He doesn't seem like he's slowing down, based on his work this season. And I don't see any reason the FO can't structure a smart deal around, say, 3 years that gives Lynch his due while giving the team some protection. Because it's clear to me that regardless of the history of RB careers breaking down, or salary cap issues, or whatever, this team is not ready to move on from Lynch on the field. It just isn't.

 

[NJSeahawk]

I've seen this thread before. Only the names have changed. If a player loses value as time goes on, it's best to let the player go too early than too late. Some people hate Shawn Alexander because of his last couple years in Seattle. I don't want to hate Marshawn because his contract hurts the team and he isn't playing like he used to.

I don't think people hated Alexander for his last couple of years. I don't think people "hated" him at all. I think they were frustrated by his tendency to run out of bounds or fail to break tackles (i.e., going down at first contact), and that they felt that it was a failure to give 100% in a game out of a desire for self-preservation. In other words, they viewed him as uber-talented, with great vision, deceptive speed, but lacking in desire/toughness. And when the superior blocking in front of him was no longer superior, his play fell off drastically.

I just can't see Lynch in the same scenario. Does anyone remember the Giants game in 2010? Lynch had been a Seahawk for about a month, and the jury was still out (at least here at .NET) about whether he was worth anything. He had a garbage YPC against the Bears, but some folks were lauding his play in that game. Against the Raiders, he carried 9 times for 7 yards. A lot of people were saying that we had gotten fleeced by Buffalo. And in that Giants game, we were starting Charlie Whitehurst, and we were down almost immediately by 3 TDs. I remember one run where Lynch only gained a couple of yards. He had been hit about 5 yards deep in the backfield by a slew of Giant defenders, and he BULLED his way forward past the line of scrimmage, finally falling forward after being hit by what seemed like 8 different Giants.

That's the huge difference between Alexander and Lynch, and why I don't agree with the sentiment that Lynch has no leverage or that he can be replaced if he holds out. His running in 2010 and 2011, along with the Beastquake run, helped define the personality of our team. He never looks like he's making "business decisions" out there. He looks like he wants to run through a defender on every single play. And he seems like he's all about the game. He doesn't want to be, as Cam Newton so mindlessly put it, "an icon and entertainer." He wants to ball. The game is what's important to him... not all the trappings that go along with it. Having a guy like that is rare, imo.

I can't see the future, and I can't guarantee that Lynch will be effective/avoid injury for the next several years (though he's been pretty durable thus far, especially considering his running style). But I think it's clear that our offense works best when it revolves around Beast Mode (not just "the run game", but Lynch himself). He doesn't seem like he's slowing down, based on his work this season. And I don't see any reason the FO can't structure a smart deal around, say, 3 years that gives Lynch his due while giving the team some protection. Because it's clear to me that regardless of the history of RB careers breaking down, or salary cap issues, or whatever, this team is not ready to move on from Lynch on the field. It just isn't.

Great post, these two paragraphs hit the nail on the head. Shaun and Marshawn are two completely different players and can't be compared. Marshawn wants to ball.

 

[LawlessHawk]

Nice post Volsung, pretty much my thoughts exactly from the beginning of this thread. Lynch is a totally different cat and although some people on this board think they know who he is, what he wants and what he's going to do... No one has a clue.