Jimmy Graham "Barely Practiced" during the week before games

[Siouxhawk]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

 

[hawknation2017]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Why are you "sure" of this?

 

[Hawks46]

So 6 touchdowns and over 900 yards with such limited practice -- I think he was utilized quite well. Offseason time spent with Russ will make him that much sharper.

That's a hot taek there. He led our TE group in snaps played, and by a wide margin. There's seriously no debate that he wasn't utilized well enough in the red zone.

We finished near the bottom of the league in red zone efficiency. Graham and Dez Bryant were 1 and 2 in the entire NFL for receiving TDs from 2010-2014. He didn't all of a sudden lose that skill when he got to Seattle.

Ultimately it comes down to play calling and overall scheme inside the red zone. Did his injury play into his production? Of course it did, but he was literally on the field for the majority of plays. He was out there blocking and running routes, it's disingenuous to now point to this to fit your narrative after the fact. Utilization continues to be a problem.

Please let Darrell know that he's allowed to watch tape of him while he was in New Orleans.

Don't you see you contradict the point you seem to be making when you say he was out there blocking and running routes on nearly every red zone play and then you insist he was underutilized? Which is it?
I think the truth of the matter is that the combination of him drawing bracket coverage, not being as sharp while still recovering from the knee injury, limited reps and rhythm with Russ and overall team philosophy to help out an inexperienced offensive line in blocking duties kept his red zone numbers a little lower than career averages.
But he still finished just 2 TDs shy of the best tight end producer in the league and his catch and reception yardage set a team season record for his position, so he was actually utilized very well all things considered. He'll be even stronger next year and will get a contract extension.

You have to watch the plays, not just throw out some generic excuse.

1. First and foremost, yes Graham gets bracketed. Want to know why ? Bevell has him line up close to the line, even if he's not in a 3 point stance. When you split him close, you can cover him off the line with a LBer, then catch him with a safety over the top. I've seen teams shade over the slot CB, knowing that the slot WR on that side won't cut inside towards Graham and clog up the middle of the field. So you can have 3 guys covering Graham, while all playing zone. Because, you know, there's not as much room in the Red Zone.

2. saying he's still recovering from his knee is also a bit facile. He's always used his size and boxed out and out jumped defenders in the end zone. He doesn't need explosion to do that. Also, he averaged 14.5 ypc which was a career high for him. So he was explosive enough to average almost 15 ypc (which was also the highest for a TE in the league) but not explosive enough to get open in the Red Zone ? Sounds legit.

3. saying he's just 2 TDs shy of the best TE is out of context. He had the 2nd lowest TD total of his career, shy of only his rookie year when he only started 6 games. This is the problem; we're so used to Bevell's vanilla play calling and inability to use offensive personnel to their utmost potential (Jermaine Kearse was targed 3x as much as Graham in the red zone) that we're just comparing Graham to other TE's. The only TE's you can compare Graham to are Olson and Gronk. There's no excuse to not have him at 10 TD's a year. It's not like we don't get to the red zone. Our lack of a running game should mean even more targets for him. If you try to force him the ball, or it doesn't work, you're still going to kick a FG. Guess what....we're still only kicking FG's.

4. yes the OLine is inexperienced. That's yet another reason to split Graham out and create a 1 on 1 mismatch. If Wilson gets the ball out in 2 seconds, not many defenders are going to be able to cover Graham. Or it's a DPI. Wilson also gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds, which defeats the pass rush. See: Brady, Tom and Manning, Peyton. Watch the Atlanta playoff game. They split Graham out wide and had Keanu Neal on him, one of the better (and larger) SS's in the game. Graham scored on him easily. They promptly went away from that and never tried it again.

It's a mix of Bevell's poor play calling, and Wilson's unwillingness to target someone besides Kearse or Baldwin. Both have to change.

 

[Siouxhawk]

So 6 touchdowns and over 900 yards with such limited practice -- I think he was utilized quite well. Offseason time spent with Russ will make him that much sharper.

That's a hot taek there. He led our TE group in snaps played, and by a wide margin. There's seriously no debate that he wasn't utilized well enough in the red zone.

We finished near the bottom of the league in red zone efficiency. Graham and Dez Bryant were 1 and 2 in the entire NFL for receiving TDs from 2010-2014. He didn't all of a sudden lose that skill when he got to Seattle.

Ultimately it comes down to play calling and overall scheme inside the red zone. Did his injury play into his production? Of course it did, but he was literally on the field for the majority of plays. He was out there blocking and running routes, it's disingenuous to now point to this to fit your narrative after the fact. Utilization continues to be a problem.

Please let Darrell know that he's allowed to watch tape of him while he was in New Orleans.

Don't you see you contradict the point you seem to be making when you say he was out there blocking and running routes on nearly every red zone play and then you insist he was underutilized? Which is it?
I think the truth of the matter is that the combination of him drawing bracket coverage, not being as sharp while still recovering from the knee injury, limited reps and rhythm with Russ and overall team philosophy to help out an inexperienced offensive line in blocking duties kept his red zone numbers a little lower than career averages.
But he still finished just 2 TDs shy of the best tight end producer in the league and his catch and reception yardage set a team season record for his position, so he was actually utilized very well all things considered. He'll be even stronger next year and will get a contract extension.

You have to watch the plays, not just throw out some generic excuse.

1. First and foremost, yes Graham gets bracketed. Want to know why ? Bevell has him line up close to the line, even if he's not in a 3 point stance. When you split him close, you can cover him off the line with a LBer, then catch him with a safety over the top. I've seen teams shade over the slot CB, knowing that the slot WR on that side won't cut inside towards Graham and clog up the middle of the field. So you can have 3 guys covering Graham, while all playing zone. Because, you know, there's not as much room in the Red Zone.

2. saying he's still recovering from his knee is also a bit facile. He's always used his size and boxed out and out jumped defenders in the end zone. He doesn't need explosion to do that. Also, he averaged 14.5 ypc which was a career high for him. So he was explosive enough to average almost 15 ypc (which was also the highest for a TE in the league) but not explosive enough to get open in the Red Zone ? Sounds legit.

3. saying he's just 2 TDs shy of the best TE is out of context. He had the 2nd lowest TD total of his career, shy of only his rookie year when he only started 6 games. This is the problem; we're so used to Bevell's vanilla play calling and inability to use offensive personnel to their utmost potential (Jermaine Kearse was targed 3x as much as Graham in the red zone) that we're just comparing Graham to other TE's. The only TE's you can compare Graham to are Olson and Gronk. There's no excuse to not have him at 10 TD's a year. It's not like we don't get to the red zone. Our lack of a running game should mean even more targets for him. If you try to force him the ball, or it doesn't work, you're still going to kick a FG. Guess what....we're still only kicking FG's.

4. yes the OLine is inexperienced. That's yet another reason to split Graham out and create a 1 on 1 mismatch. If Wilson gets the ball out in 2 seconds, not many defenders are going to be able to cover Graham. Or it's a DPI. Wilson also gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds, which defeats the pass rush. See: Brady, Tom and Manning, Peyton. Watch the Atlanta playoff game. They split Graham out wide and had Keanu Neal on him, one of the better (and larger) SS's in the game. Graham scored on him easily. They promptly went away from that and never tried it again.

It's a mix of Bevell's poor play calling, and Wilson's unwillingness to target someone besides Kearse or Baldwin. Both have to change.

Your 10 touchdowns could have been attained had Jimmy not dropped a couple and if Russ had spotted him open in the end zone such as Brock spotlighted in the Falcons game.

Comparing him to his Saints days is pure folly anyhow as he's never going to match those numbers in our more-balanced offense. And he's going to be asked to block going further, that's just the fact of who this team is.

And I do believe his injury came into play, especially earlier in the season. If he could barely run in practice and got few, if any reps with Russ, leading up to gameday, it's not unusual that he didn't get very many targets.

And extra blocking help was certainly needed this year to protect Russ. And I don't think Jimmy was adverse to that role. It makes him a more well-rounded player. I don't mind your idea of splitting him wide and I think we might see more of that next year when our line becomes more consistent, but he was pretty much confined to that role this year. And by the way, Gronk lines up tight to the line more often than not in the red zone and he doesn't seem to have many problems when healthy.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Why are you "sure" of this?

He's got the power of belief, which by its very nature, cannot be argued. Don't bother.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Why are you "sure" of this?

He's got the power of belief, which by its very nature, cannot be argued. Don't bother.

Isn't that what's expected in a fan forum oh mighty one? Seems you have all the answers.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Isn't that what's expected in a fan forum oh mighty one? Seems you have all the answers.

Naw, just an occasional answer here and there. However, I'm pretty sure that beliefs are not the overriding expectation of an NFL team fan forum.

I do like the "oh mighty one" moniker, though. Maybe I'll ask a mod to finally change my beloved FCC Liaison title to it.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Isn't that what's expected in a fan forum oh mighty one? Seems you have all the answers.

Naw, just an occasional answer here and there. However, I'm pretty sure that beliefs are not the overriding expectation of an NFL team fan forum.

I do like the "oh mighty one" moniker, though. Maybe I'll ask a mod to finally change my beloved FCC Liaison title to it.

I guess I'm under presumptions that beliefs and opinions are the fuel of a fan forum. I could be wrong. And you should go for the title idea. IT would look good on you.

 

[RiverDog]

It seems like the Jimmy Graham thread quickly evolved into a Darrell Bevell thread.

I'm no Bevell fan, but I have to stick up with him somewhat with regard to his play calling. Russell's injuries, our horrendous offensive line play, especially at tackle, the weak spot of our weak spot, where the tight end is frequently called upon to support, and a lack of a consistent running game, all conspired to limit play calling.

For example, split Graham out as was mentioned above and you can't count on Russell having anymore than 3 seconds to get rid of the ball, especially those times when his knee injury was affecting his mobility. That limits what kind of pass patterns our receivers can run.

Another example. With Russell injured, the read option, or at least him keeping on the read, was not respected by defenses. For the past 4 years, the read option and variants off the read has been one of our primary bread and butter plays that had to be scratched until the last few weeks of the season.

Play calling with this offense is a little like putting lace around a bowling ball.

 

[nash72]

Why in God's name did we even sign him?

I would imagine just to piss you off

And Jimmy

Yeah, I'm sure Jimmy is pretty pissed about cashing a $950,000 check EACH WEEK.

Probably more upset that he's pissing any kind of chance of a gold jacket and a bust in Canton away by playing in Seattle.

 

[nash72]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Yeah his sideline tantrums confirm this.

 

[Ozzy]

I think he was utilized quite well.

Seriously, are you Darrell Bevell IRL, or do you know him or are related to him? I'm actually asking, it's not a joke question.


In any case...Graham's a baller, hope we start targeting him more, and in better situations.

I'm fully convinced at this point lol.

I still think he was under utilized and has been his whole time here. His 16 red zone td's in New Orleans compared to 2-3 here in the same time frame is proof of that. Regardless I think he has a monster year next year and the passing offense goes through him. If not I hope Souix gets fired. :twisted:

 

[scrummymustard]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Why would he be pleased? He's putting up less numbers than 1. He ever has, and 2. Than he should be, even in this offense. He's barely a part of the game plan for nearly half our games. He had 5 targets or less in 8 games this year.

We aren't in the super bowl either. We score on the our first possession in the red zone in Atlanta and then ignore him the rest of the game. He had 3 targets in that game, when Russell threw 30 times. There is little chance he is "happy" with how he's used or how the season went.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I'm sure Jimmy was pleased with his season and how he was used.

Why would he be pleased? He's putting up less numbers than 1. He ever has, and 2. Than he should be, even in this offense. He's barely a part of the game plan for nearly half our games. He had 5 targets or less in 8 games this year.

We aren't in the super bowl either. We score on the our first possession in the red zone in Atlanta and then ignore him the rest of the game. He had 3 targets in that game, when Russell threw 30 times. There is little chance he is "happy" with how he's used or how the season went.

Considering he had more offensive snaps than anyone but Russ or the OLine, he was very much a part of the gameplan. And for where he was health wise for most of the season we've learned, I'm sure he was very self-satisfied for making that much of a contribution. He did set team records and made the Pro Bowl on a strong playoff team after all.
And let's not follow the crowd and confuse targets with gameplay in the Atlanta game. Watch Brock Huard's chalk talk about how Jimmy was wide open for TD No. 2 against the Falcons, but Russ couldn't identify it. That will be worked on next year.

 

[Ozzy]

Offensive snaps and usage are two totally different things. Look at my red zone TD differences when he was on the Saints and while he's been here. That's not all on Russ "missing him". John Lynch after studying tape was baffled at how we use him and didn't understand why we don't more with him. I expect it to get better next year all around. At least I hope so.

 

[Siouxhawk]

There's no doubt his numbers will get better as his health improves and our offensive line becomes more consistent.

 

[Ozzy]

Do you honestly believe that Bevell can't do slightly better at finding ways to get him the ball? I get not thinking he's the problem overall or that he is severely limited because of the line or whatever but what makes it tough with you is that you can't concede that Bevell shares even a fraction of the blame for this or anything. You don't think literally anyone on the planet would do a better job then Bevell has done? McDaniels, Shanahan? Anyone?

 

[Siouxhawk]

Do you honestly believe that Bevell can't do slightly better at finding ways to get him the ball? I get not thinking he's the problem overall or that he is severely limited because of the line or whatever but what makes it tough with you is that you can't concede that Bevell shares even a fraction of the blame for this or anything. You don't think literally anyone on the planet would do a better job then Bevell has done? McDaniels, Shanahan? Anyone?

Part of it is that you and a few others on here have this obsession with blame. It's as though if the team doesn't win the Super Bowl, you have to take out your magnifying glasses and hyper-analyze everything.

As myself and others have said here, we are in the midst of the most prosperous era in Seahawks history. Bevell has been one of the building block coaches who have been there pretty much from the beginning and helped build this machine. We will begin next season again as one of the premier NFC favorites and I credit much of that to entire coaching staff.

As I've said, a big upcoming task for Bevell and Carl Smith will be to find a way to get Russ to have full confidence in delivering a pass to a receiver in a tight window or before the break has been made. I think that's especially important for Jimmy, who thrives on those timing routes where he beats his defender at the last possible second.

 

[Ozzy]

That's flat out wrong. I don't think Bevell was the main problem or the one deserving the most blame. I think the health of Wilson and the offensive line were far and away the biggest issues. You can also give credit the coaching staff and still be objective. We're not talking in terms of infallibility here. Everyone, including Bevell can do better, to say otherwise borders on delusion.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Do you honestly believe that Bevell can't do slightly better at finding ways to get him the ball? I get not thinking he's the problem overall or that he is severely limited because of the line or whatever but what makes it tough with you is that you can't concede that Bevell shares even a fraction of the blame for this or anything. You don't think literally anyone on the planet would do a better job then Bevell has done? McDaniels, Shanahan? Anyone?

Of course he can do better...........when you lose everyone can do better, including Graham.

Have you watched how Graham runs his routes? Not exactly Mr. crisp exact route runner. He more lumbers out into coverage, and thus it takes time for him to get open or find a seam.

Time Russell doesn't have for 80% of the plays cause he has .5 seconds to throw it.

But to answer your question, of course Bevell can do better. So can Pete, and Russell, and the O-line, and Graham himself.

btw, dude had almost 1,000 yards of receiving, why are so many people here acting like he didn't have a good year?