Kearly's Random Thoughts

[MontanaHawk05]

God, let this be done with by kickoff. :34853_doh:

Way to dodge responsibility for your actions.

I went back and found the basis for your incense...it's not as explicit as you mention, but it's there...but the fact remains that you stirred up the whole hornet's nest with an unnecessary challenge in the first place and are still trying to wriggle out of it. I'm disappointed.

 

[hawknation2015]

God, let this be done with by kickoff. :34853_doh:

Way to dodge responsibility for your actions.

I went back and found the basis for your incense...it's not as explicit as you mention, but it's there...but the fact remains that you stirred up the whole hornet's nest with an unnecessary challenge in the first place and are still trying to wriggle out of it. I'm disappointed.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

Yes, that was snarky as hell . . . and Seahawks football is almost here.

 

[hawk45]

Kearly didn't start a thread on the topic of bringing back his Random Thoughts. Hard to see how it's fair to ask him not to explain why he stopped doing it, if the difficulty and accumulation of negative comments over the years were the reasons. They sound like pretty good reasons to me, especially for someone not being paid to do it.

 

[hawk45]

Kearly didn't start a thread on the topic of bringing back his Random Thoughts. Hard to see how it's fair to ask him not to explain why he stopped doing it, if the difficulty and accumulation of negative comments over the years were the reasons. They sound like pretty good reasons to me, especially for someone not being paid to do it.

Understandable, my point was it just breeds more arguments. Moving on...

Headed downtown now, hoping to not get soaked in the meantime.

Good for you!

Radio said it's supposed to get dry 1 hr before kickoff for what that's worth, so stay warm and dry in a bar until then maybe.

 

[Rocket]

I started reading a thread asking someone to write up his thoughts on the game,... like he used to before people got too ugly in their criticism of his opinion. His writings were fantastic, by the way.

Ain't it funny how that same thread started to get ugly in it's criticism of both history and opinions.
This really sucks because his opinion was worth dozens of those who got ugly.

 

[Rob12]

Unfortunately, kearly has shown that he finds it extremely difficult when his "truth" conflicts with someone else's "truth" and is willing to resort to some outlandish tactics to prevent that reoccurrence. But other than that, our disagreements of opinion give me no reason to think negatively of him or anyone else here with whom I enjoy discussing Seahawks football.

Kip put up with much more than disagreement, though. And the fact that you reduce it to simple differences in opinion shows that you are leaning one way and not towards being biased on why he called it quits. You must not pay very close attention, because Kip is easily one of the most levelheaded posters here when it comes to responding to those who disagree with him. It's when folks don't have any candor or respect that creates the problems and muddies the water. I can't imagine that his Random Thoughts posts took any less than a couple of hours to construct, and to get flyby comments that were nothing more disrespectfully intended is uncalled for, and as he said, over the years that will wear incredibly thin.

You know, you can't insult someone by saying he "resort[ed] to some outlandish tactics to prevent [disagreements]," and in the same breath say that you don't think negatively of him. You think that it was 'outlandish' of him to cease the Random Thoughts because of some simple disagreements, and you're wrong. You're reducing him to a man that can't handle an opposing view and that is so far base it's not even funny.

That's really nearsighted and borders on the intellectually dishonest. Or, no disrespect intended, you just weren't paying close enough attention.

But yes, as J said... Posts like yours will be the eternal nail in the coffin for what was once a bright shining star on .NET.

 

[hawknation2015]

Unfortunately, kearly has shown that he finds it extremely difficult when his "truth" conflicts with someone else's "truth" and is willing to resort to some outlandish tactics to prevent that reoccurrence. But other than that, our disagreements of opinion give me no reason to think negatively of him or anyone else here with whom I enjoy discussing Seahawks football.

Kip put up with much more than disagreement, though. And the fact that you reduce it to simple differences in opinion shows that you are leaning one way and not towards being biased on why he called it quits. You must not pay very close attention, because Kip is easily one of the most levelheaded posters here when it comes to responding to those who disagree with him. It's when folks don't have any candor or respect that creates the problems and muddies the water. I can't imagine that his Random Thoughts posts took any less than a couple of hours to construct, and to get flyby comments that were nothing more disrespectfully intended is uncalled for, and as he said, over the years that will wear incredibly thin.

You know, you can't insult someone by saying he "resort[ed] to some outlandish tactics to prevent [disagreements]," and in the same breath say that you don't think negatively of him. You think that it was 'outlandish' of him to cease the Random Thoughts because of some simple disagreements, and you're wrong. You're reducing him to a man that can't handle an opposing view and that is so far base it's not even funny.

That's really nearsighted and borders on the intellectually dishonest. Or, no disrespect intended, you just weren't paying close enough attention.

But yes, as J said... Posts like yours will be the eternal nail in the coffin for what was once a bright shining star on .NET.

Not what I was referring to . . . see above.

 

[Rob12]

Unfortunately, kearly has shown that he finds it extremely difficult when his "truth" conflicts with someone else's "truth" and is willing to resort to some outlandish tactics to prevent that reoccurrence.

Sorry, but this is a pile of crap. Speaking as one who has disagreed with Kip on numerous occasions, I can tell you firsthand that your statement is not true. But in the process of disagreeing, many people can't resist the temptation of accompanying the disagreement with some kind of snarky remark or personal insult.

One of my personal mottos is "What you believe is only as good as why you believe it." I have strong opinions, but I like to have good reasons for them, and I usually do. But if I disagree with someone like Kip, I'm interested in knowing what are his reasons for believing what he does -- and if his reasons are good (and they usually are), then it compels me to reassess my reasons for believing what I do. The end result may or may not be a change of my opinion, and often we may agree to disagree, but the process is always stimulating and enlightening.



Regarding a couple of suggestions in this thread: I like the idea of having an anti-shack forum. I do not like the idea of locking a thread after the first post. One of the great things about Kip's Random Thoughts (or anyone else's in depth analysis, for that matter) is the discussion that proceeds from it. Preemptively shutting down that discussion, and diverting it to another thread, would make the process of having the discussion much more cumbersome. But in an anti-shack forum, discussion would be free as long as it is civil. I'm assuming civility would be enforced through permission to enter the forum and/or the quick use of the ban hammer, either of which I would be perfectly fine with.

Would that not in other words be called an elitist society then, we don't know you or don't think your mature or good enough to comment on this material so you can't come in.

No, it's not elitist. It would be a group of 12's that could have civil discourse and voice their disagreements in a respectful manner. This forum has many sub forums, so I don't see this as a bad idea. Why not have a place that is simply geared towards, above all else, respectful discussion about the Seahawks? I don't know. I knew some people would see it as you described but I just don't. Make membership available to all, but just heavily moderate it.

 

[Rob12]

Several other people have expressed this sort of sentiment, that we should have an "anti-Shack" forum where we can talk about Seahawks topics and not get ourselves all dirty with trolling and bad blood. The Official Net Nation Fan Forum is that forum. This main forum is the place where we talk about Seahawks, and where "shacked" topics and discussion are off limits. Perhaps if we try and remember this as we go into the season, it'll be a place where folks can post their Random Thoughts-style musings and generate great discussion. That's pretty much the purpose of this place, after all.

The problem with the main forum is that it is far too often uncivil and nasty. Why do you think all the best posters start disappearing one by one over the years? And a lot of .net's favorite posters have PM'ed me saying every year they are a little closer to leaving.

That doesn't mean that I think the main forum should be hyper policed. I think the main forum is fine for catching a 'wide spectrum' of emotions and personalities and yes, even behaviors. It does however, make it a pretty tough place to be sometimes when you just want to talk football with other interesting people.

That's why I suggested an 'elevated' discourse sub forum for people who want to talk about football without being attacked. It wouldn't replace the main forum, it would compliment it the way that the NFL and Draft forums would.

Thing is, I don't want to sound pushy. It's just something I think would help the site a bit. I've been at .net a long time without it, but I don't think a RT type thread could ever exist for long in the main forum because of the 'shitty job' aspect the main forum creates.

I really, really wish the powers that be would consider your entire post above.

The main forum can be a nasty place. After all, that's the place where the Random Thoughts went to die.

I don't know if it's understood, the vision that is, of a place that solely focuses on nothing but respectful, insightful discussion.

 

[Rob12]

But the excuse of the trolls ruining it for you..... I dont know man... This is the internet, you need to be able to block that stuff out. Especially when the majority of your readers were extremely positive and loved your stuff. This is like the 10th thread since you've stopped doing them (which you respond in most of them, so I know youve read them) that has the mass majority of people complimenting you. Seems pretty petty to worry about the rest and blame it on that.

There was a lot of stuff that happened below the surface and was easy to miss. And honestly, having 4-5 people with an axe to grind against you cancels out 400-500 pieces of praise. For example, lets say you worked at a drive thru at Taco Bell. After your shift was over, would you remember the hundreds of decent people who passed through, or the 4-5 people who were rude? Now repeat this over several years, and it starts to take a toll.

What made it worse was that it wasn't really policed, there's basically a ban-hammer threshold that people will tip-toe up to but not cross, which if done over a long time is really rough. Especially when you spend so much time and energy on the posts.

I literally ate, slept, and breathed sports writing for most of my adult life, what you are saying is understandable to me. I get yours was a labor of love, or maybe you hoped to move up to the big leagues, whatever, if it wasn't what you wanted it to be then just leave it alone. I think most people can support that, but please stop complaining about how hard it was to do. Either it was worth it or it wasn't, no need to belabor the point about discourse here, especially when you aren't exactly the shining example to hold up to the rest of the group (with how you have apparently dealt with your disagreements).

Let's just agree to put it all behind us, and move on to 2015. Go Hawks!

These little insults, or getting the last word, is funny... A paragraph of beef and diatribe, and then a one sentence "let's put it behind us" retreat at the end. Well done.

Bottom line, and then I'm done - Random Thoughts was excellent for the board and since its demise that's just one more peg knocked off .NET. It should have never ended the way it did.

 

[pmedic920]

One of the things that I would to see is, more PMs to the Mods in regards to perceived inappropriate behavior.
Let's face it, the staff can only do so much, this place is what the membership makes it.
PMs to the Mod group are private and not shared with people outside of our group.
If you see something that concerns you, alert us. We stand a much better chance of taking care of an issue if it's caught early. It's very hard to clean up a thread after a pissing match has gone on for 20 posts with multiple people quoting multiple other people all while arguing.
Remember ladies and gents this is "our house" the main page is what people see when they walk through the door. The shacked ares are that playroom or workshop that we pull the door shut on when the doorbell rings.
This thread is full of legitimate concerns and ideas, I'd like to encourage all to take heart and see if you can play a role in making "our house" an even better place to stay.

Together we can.
GoHawks.

 

[hawkfan68]

Kearly, Thank you for all your efforts with RT. It was indeed one of the highlights each week. Your insights on the game are unmatched and that's probably why no one else has taken over in that aspect. No one wants to be the next guy after a Hall of Famer. We've got plenty of awesome posters .NET. That's what makes this place exceptional. Glad your still on .NET and contributing via posts, etc. Go Hawks!

 

[BlueTalon]

Several other people have expressed this sort of sentiment, that we should have an "anti-Shack" forum where we can talk about Seahawks topics and not get ourselves all dirty with trolling and bad blood. The Official Net Nation Fan Forum is that forum. This main forum is the place where we talk about Seahawks, and where "shacked" topics and discussion are off limits. Perhaps if we try and remember this as we go into the season, it'll be a place where folks can post their Random Thoughts-style musings and generate great discussion. That's pretty much the purpose of this place, after all.

The problem with the main forum is that it is far too often uncivil and nasty. Why do you think all the best posters start disappearing one by one over the years? And a lot of .net's favorite posters have PM'ed me saying every year they are a little closer to leaving.

That doesn't mean that I think the main forum should be hyper policed. I think the main forum is fine for catching a 'wide spectrum' of emotions and personalities and yes, even behaviors. It does however, make it a pretty tough place to be sometimes when you just want to talk football with other interesting people.

That's why I suggested an 'elevated' discourse sub forum for people who want to talk about football without being attacked. It wouldn't replace the main forum, it would compliment it the way that the NFL and Draft forums would.

Thing is, I don't want to sound pushy. It's just something I think would help the site a bit. I've been at .net a long time without it, but I don't think a RT type thread could ever exist for long in the main forum because of the 'shitty job' aspect the main forum creates.

Again this sounds like a place for the elite or that someone feels has the right to be there, or the 1 percent versus the 99 percent. You have great thoughts and ideas, but like anywhere people will disagree agree or offer their own perspective on what you say. Limiting how someone is allowed to express themselves will kill things faster then almost anything. Those that have the ability to distinguish trolling and hyperbole should be able to ignore them and focus on the posts that are meaty and have substance anyway. You can choose what you reply to and who you involve yourself with.

I'm sorry Chris, but that's just wrong. As in incorrect. Trolling will "kill things faster" than high standards will.

We are limited all the time in how we express ourselves, yet somehow we manage to get our ideas across. The only thing close to unlimited expression here is the shack, and even in the shack there are limits. In the main forum, there are more limits. You don't seem to have a problem with those, as it seems to be your baseline to which you compare the proposed elevated sub-forum.

I wish you wouldn't interpret this idea as elitist. With such an "elevated" sub-forum, there would be no limiting how anyone is able to express anything, because everybody would still have unfettered access to the main forum. And for those who want such an anti-shack forum, it's not an us-vs.-them thing or a 1% vs. 99% or anything like that, because those of us who want to participate constructively in such a forum are not the ones determining who can come in and who can stay.

The idea is to have a higher standard of behavior -- anybody can participate, they just have to be tactful. You could structure it so that people have to request posting privileges, the same way they have to do with the shack. The shack has nothing to do with elitism, does it? The idea of getting permission is, "be sure you know what you are getting into." Alternately, you could allow everyone permission to post in the anti-shack forum the same way we do in the main forum, and just be quick with the temp bans in that particular sub-forum for those who want to push the boundaries or disregard the rules. But curtailing someone's access from that sub-forum wouldn't necessarily impact their access to any place else in .NET.

 

[BlueTalon]

He was responding to hawknation2015, not you.

 

[HansHawk]

It would be useful to be able to up vote or down vote posts. Posts that cross a certain down vote threshold would be auto deleted/blocked. That way the community could self/social admin in real time. It would also provide feedback to authors of what is beneficial to the discussion and what is not.

 

[Rob12]

He was responding to hawknation2015, not you.

Sure doesn't look like to me, as he quoted me... Maybe he made a mistake?

No, no mistake. I was talking to you. I just didn't see how this:

Either it was worth it or it wasn't, no need to belabor the point about discourse here, especially when you aren't exactly the shining example to hold up to the rest of the group (with how you have apparently dealt with your disagreements).

helped anything.

I never said it was aggression. But sometimes I think people love lobbing insults and trying to back track off of them as quickly as they make them - which is how I took your post to him. The part above in bold is nothing more than a very thinly veiled insult, so how do you think it's going to be construed? You can say you didn't mean anything by it, but that was not a very kind indictment of kearly or how his Random Thoughts ceased to exist here.

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[ringless]

I have to say I really like reading those posts as well.

Extremely well written, and very educational. It's too bad and I understand the reasoning. My opinion Im sure would do nothing to convince you otherwise to starting again because its your own choice. But I truly believed those posts were some of the best on here.

 

[Rob12]

He was responding to hawknation2015, not you.

Sure doesn't look like to me, as he quoted me... Maybe he made a mistake?

No, no mistake. I was talking to you. I just didn't see how this:

Either it was worth it or it wasn't, no need to belabor the point about discourse here, especially when you aren't exactly the shining example to hold up to the rest of the group (with how you have apparently dealt with your disagreements).

helped anything.

I never said it was aggression. But sometimes I think people love lobbing insults and trying to back track off of them as quickly as they make them - which is how I took your post to him. The part above in bold is nothing more than a very thinly veiled insult, so how do you think it's going to be construed? You can say you didn't mean anything by it, but that was not a very kind indictment of kearly or how his Random Thoughts ceased to exist here.

Maybe I'm wrong.

I wasn't attacking Kearly, I was describing his behavior in regards to HN2015, which he himself has said was out of character for him. I was not making an indictment of his behavior anywhere else on this site, outside of these two or three threads that were bouncing back and forth. You are looking for insults when there are none. As I said, I have had a private conversation with Kearly, he knows exactly what I meant and knows my intent, so you don't need to be offended for him.

If he already owned the misstep he made, why continue to bring it up? I guess that's where my curiosity lies.

I'm not offended for him. I just remember how that whole thing went down and it was a sad ordeal. The board took a hit... For worse. But I think I've said all I needed to say, and for what it's worth I think you're one of the better posters around here. This is all going in circles, so I'm bowing out. Go Hawks.

 

[BlueTalon]

He was responding to hawknation2015, not you.

Sure doesn't look like to me, as he quoted me... Maybe he made a mistake?

No, the mistake was mine. Sorry.

 

[Rob12]

If he already owned the misstep he made, why continue to bring it up? I guess that's where my curiosity lies.

I'm not offended for him. I just remember how that whole thing went down and it was a sad ordeal. The board took a hit... For worse. But I think I've said all I needed to say, and for what it's worth I think you're one of the better posters around here. This is all going in circles, so I'm bowing out. Go Hawks.

Oh, I see where you are going. I was just trying to provide an impartial view point, as I can identify with both sides of the equation. Wasn't trying to favor either side and definitely wasn't trying to insult anyone, veiled or not. I think maybe the sensitivity regarding the subject matter heightens the senses a little, and maybe the wires got a little crossed here. Either way, I think best course of action for all is to try to be respectful even if there are disagreements, and even if they are heated. The things that caused Kearly to retire his RT's are multifaceted and not all of it is just "trolling". If we are more respectful to each other a lot of that stuff that comes in between us falls away. That goes for everybody, not just one group of people.

Cheers to all, Hawks football is here and there are other unimportant things to worry about

Go Hawks!

Right on. And your sig is killing me, man. Every time I see one of your posts I want to bash my screen, thinking I have gnats flying on my monitor. LOL